V7II vs. Ducati Scrambler

[Bradkap]

Any thoughts on this comparison ?

[Kev m]

I haven't ridden either yet, but we own two very similar bikes - V7 Stone and a Duc 696.

I'm guessing the comparison will be similar, though the Scrambler appears to be a tad quicker than the 696 on paper and the seating position is more upright (more to my liking).

Anyway, if the comparison is similar they are both fantastic bikes with some differences in feel and in performance.

There's no question that hands down the Scrambler will be faster and probably even a little lighter and more sure footed in the twisties.

But even with 24/7 access to a Stone and a Duc, I ride the Stone 99% of the time.

I prefer the feel of the motor on the Stone (and in my case the ergos, but that might change with a Scrambler instead of a 696).

I like the fuel range on the Stone (even though our Duc almost makes it up in MPG, it's a cool 200 mile range bike which is impressive for the tank size).

I like the HB luggage on the Stone which would be out of place on the Duc (though the Scrambler could sport C-Bows much nicer than the Monster thanks to the lower exhaust). I've even seen a nice HB topcase rack for the Scramber with a folding bar for the topcase so when the case is not mounted the rack is completely flat (nice touch).

And of course the classic differences in maintenance, though I have to say our Duc has run flawlessly compared to the sometimes rough nature of the V7 when cold.

I think most people would be perfectly happy to have either in their garage.

[pikipiki]

Ducati is better buy until you factor in the Ducati high running costs and Mg possible discounts which tip the scales considerably

[mjptexas]

Ducati is better buy until you factor in the Ducati high running costs...

Given the extended maintenance periods on new Ducatis this is much less of an issue than 5 years ago.  It's more of a case that a lot of people can do all the maintenance on the push rod V7.  Not so with a Ducati.

[rss29]

I haven't ridden the V7 II but I presume it's pretty similar to my '13 V7. I got bored of the V7 and wanted something with more punch. I wanted something light, quick, and suitable for light gravel road exploration. I thought the Scrambler fit the bill perfectly and went to the dealership intent on buying one. I wasn't even going to test ride it, as I had sat on it countless times and had watched every Youtube review available. They had a demo available to ride, though, so I went home to get my gear and returned.

Within about 5 miles I knew the bike wasn't for me. The power was OK, but the seating position was so cramped. I'm not even tall- 5'10", and my knees were bent past 90 degrees on the pegs. I rode an Icon, but they're all basically the same. The seat was awful and jammed my bits into the tank like a motocross bike. I also sat on an Urban Enduro and the seat felt the same. I didn't notice the forward cant until I actually rode it. I rode on a cool day and the engine heat radiating off the right side of the bike was borderline uncomfortable at stoplights. I was expecting it to be more powerful too, with a 50% hp increase over the V7.

Bottom line- go test ride a Scrambler. My local Ducati dealer is great and encourages test rides. Hopefully yours is similar. Maybe you'll love the bike, as it seems to have plenty of fans online and in the press. It wasn't for me, though, and I went in convinced it was the bike that checked all the right boxes. It is a great looking bike and there are a ton of personalization options available right from the OEM. I wish I had liked it more, as I really wanted to buy it.

[Lcarlson]

If it matters to you (and it does to me), the Ducati has chain drive. No thanks.

[LowRyter]

the Scrambler is a much faster and sportier bike.

[novaboy]

I test rode the Scrambler this summer before buying my V7. It has a great motor and lots of power, very light and flickable, a real hooligan bike. The ergos were cramped for me, locked in, like the previous poster said. I was unable to comfortably move around on the seat. I was close to pulling the trigger until I rode the V7. It seemed a little more refined and more to my taste, plus it was more comfortable for me. The fact the dealer would not budge on the price, and an $800 freight, plus $200 set up fee was outrageous.

I got too good a deal on the V7 to pass it up. I do not regret my decision one bit. The V7 is easier to work on, and I'm planning on adding a sidecar to it next year.

[Loftness]

$800 freight, plus $200 set up fee was outrageous.

$800 freight?  That's kind of nuts.  Is this common with Ducati?  The set up/prep/pdi fee is a different animal, and really, $200 isn't a crazy number.  You have to understand that every bike that comes in needs to be prepped, tested, and gone over (and sometimes assembled), and that's direct man-hour money.

[LowRyter]

I'd say it's common with a new bike in short supply with lots of interest.

Wait until you see a few on the floor. 

[canuguzzi]

$800 freight?  That's kind of nuts.  Is this common with Ducati?  The set up/prep/pdi fee is a different animal, and really, $200 isn't a crazy number.  You have to understand that every bike that comes in needs to be prepped, tested, and gone over (and sometimes assembled), and that's direct man-hour money.

Do people really pay what the dealer asks? Everything is negotiable, including freight up/prep/PDI fees.

Asking $800 reality maybe $200-300, maybe less.

[Kev m]

When we bought Jenn's Duc from Ferracci supposedly a district rep wound up driving the crate to Philly from NYC.

FREIGHT was still a fraction of that...

[Loftness]

Do people really pay what the dealer asks? Everything is negotiable, including freight up/prep/PDI fees.

Asking $800 reality maybe $200-300, maybe less.

Freight should be what the dealer paid to get the bike to them.  Guzzi charges around $400-450 for this normally...hence $800 seeming very high.  $200-$300 is the standard range for scooter freight (Piaggio, Kymco, Genuine, etc). 

I'll only lightly touch on the rest of your statement, mainly b/c we've beaten this subject to death here, but your approach to buying is the kind of thing that kills smaller dealers (ie, dealers that are likely to carry Guzzi).  Margins are small enough as it is, and for most of us those PDI/Freight type fees are a direct reflection of money *we* put into each bike in order to get it on the road for customers.  You want more Guzzi dealers around...why would you want to undercut said dealers?

Sure there are times where negotiating makes sense, and it never hurts to ask about possible options (and I certainly am one who tends to shop around when buying pretty much anything), but if you spend all your/my time at my place talking me up and test riding my bikes, and then go buy the bike at some big-box store two hours away b/c they comped you $200 on the prep fee, and then want me to be your emergency roadside guy when you start having problems, you're an ass.  ....not that that type of thing every happens.  Ever. 

[Kev m]

Freight should be what the dealer paid to get the bike to them.  Guzzi charges around $400-450 for this normally...hence $800 seeming very high.  $200-$300 is the standard range for scooter freight (Piaggio, Kymco, Genuine, etc). 

I'll only lightly touch on the rest of your statement, mainly b/c we've beaten this subject to death here, but your approach to buying is the kind of thing that kills smaller dealers (ie, dealers that are likely to carry Guzzi).  Margins are small enough as it is, and for most of us those PDI/Freight type fees are a direct reflection of money *we* put into each bike in order to get it on the road for customers.  You want more Guzzi dealers around...why would you want to undercut said dealers?

Sure there are times where negotiating makes sense, and it never hurts to ask about possible options (and I certainly am one who tends to shop around when buying pretty much anything), but if you spend all your/my time at my place talking me up and test riding my bikes, and then go buy the bike at some big-box store two hours away b/c they comped you $200 on the prep fee, and then want me to be your emergency roadside guy when you start having problems, you're an ass.  ....not that that type of thing every happens.  Ever.

I agree with everything you said.

The flip side of it, from a customer standpoint, is when you go to the local shop (FBF), and give them the business (for a second time), SPECIFICALLY TURNING DOWN A BETTER DEAL from a further away dealer (Europa Macchina). you pay their asking prep fees and:

1. They don't prep it - clutch cable not adjusted, clutch cable routed against head, etc.

and

2. When you go back to them seeking help "can we check for an updated map to help with this cold idle stalling problem".

and they basically piss in your face and tell you they won't do that unless you bring it in for the full service/valve adjustment.

So I guess you have to be careful who you're trying to support and build a relationship with in this dealer thing.

I should say I'm doing it again right now, buying from a smaller more local car dealer knowing that I probably won't get as deep a discount as if I went to the BIG box one another 20 miles up the road. But I want the smaller one to be there if I need warranty work. Hope I don't get burned again.

[Loftness]

I agree with everything you said.

The flip side of it, from a customer standpoint, is when you go to the local shop (FBF), and give them the business (for a second time), SPECIFICALLY TURNING DOWN A BETTER DEAL from a further away dealer (Europa Macchina). you pay their asking prep fees and:

1. They don't prep it - clutch cable not adjusted, clutch cable routed against head, etc.

and

2. When you go back to them seeking help "can we check for an updated map to help with this cold idle stalling problem".

and they basically piss in your face and tell you they won't do that unless you bring it in for the full service/valve adjustment.

So I guess you have to be careful who you're trying to support and build a relationship with in this dealer thing.

I should say I'm doing it again right now, buying from a smaller more local car dealer knowing that I probably won't get as deep a discount as if I went to the BIG box one another 20 miles up the road. But I want the smaller one to be there if I need warranty work. Hope I don't get burned again.

And I agree with everything you've said.   

[solarsea]

I can chime in, a mate that I often ride with has a scrambler icon :)

It is smaller, lighter and much faster. But when I (130kg, 185cm of a man) sit on it - it feels like a child's toy. It's just .. too tiny :)

On its down sides - tank is awfully small and it is chain driven. But if that doesn't matter to you - it is a good bike.

[jbell]

but if you spend all your/my time at my place talking me up and test riding my bikes, and then go buy the bike at some big-box store two hours away b/c they comped you $200 on the prep fee, and then want me to be your emergency roadside guy when you start having problems, you're an ass.  ....not that that type of thing every happens.  Ever.

So glad to see people have changed.      

When I was in the car bizz, a lady got a better deal and bought her car from another dealer 10 miles away.  When her license plates were mailed to her she brought them in to us to put them on for her because we were closer.  I'm sure Karma has evened the score by now.  Yup, we put them on for here.

[Bradkap]

Test rode the V7II this afternoon. Much better seating position than the Scrambler and the older V7. Much better stock seat than the Duc. While I think I will need to replace the suspension, I do not think I need to do it immediately. While the Scrambler seems more nimble, the V7 tank, shaft drive and comfort have me sold.

[Perazzimx14]

I'd say it's common with a new bike in short supply with lots of interest.

Wait until you see a few on the floor.

Funny how these fee's go away once the bike become a leftover.

[Kev m]

Funny how these fee's go away once the bike become a leftover.

Sure, that's because the dealer is getting in a position where they may just break even or possibly even take a loss on that bike.

So somebody gets a "deal" but really that's not a sustainable business model.

Car dealers and maybe Harley dealers have such volume (both in sales and service) that perhaps they can absorb those fees more often than not as a cost of doing business. But the same can't be said for a small motorcycle dealer such as the kind we regularly find carries Guzzi (and maybe more importantly, of the kind most of us profess to want).

I would argue it behooves us to pay some fair and reasonable fees on a new bike purchase if we want the dealer around for service, parts, support or even just another bike in the future.

[tonUPRacer]

Test rode the V7II this afternoon. Much better seating position than the Scrambler and the older V7. Much better stock seat than the Duc. While I think I will need to replace the suspension, I do not think I need to do it immediately. While the Scrambler seems more nimble, the V7 tank, shaft drive and comfort have me sold.

We have a winner! Post pics when it happens!

[Perazzimx14]

Sure, that's because the dealer is getting in a position where they may just break even or possibly even take a loss on that bike.

So somebody gets a "deal" but really that's not a sustainable business model.

Car dealers and maybe Harley dealers have such volume (both in sales and service) that perhaps they can absorb those fees more often than not as a cost of doing business. But the same can't be said for a small motorcycle dealer such as the kind we regularly find carries Guzzi (and maybe more importantly, of the kind most of us profess to want).

I would argue it behooves us to pay some fair and reasonable fees on a new bike purchase if we want the dealer around for service, parts, support or even just another bike in the future.

But wouldn't the dealer have been better to intitially forgo these fees and sell the bike before it even comes close to costing them money? Having stagnant inventory on the floor is not good business practice.

[Kev m]

But wouldn't the dealer have been better to intitially forgo these fees and sell the bike before it even comes close to costing them money? Having stagnant inventory on the floor is not good business practice.

One could argue that carrying any low volume brand motorcycle is probably NOT GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE too.

I'm sure you already realize this but a dealer has to balance inventory with demand.

That can be particularly hard with a brand like MG.

And let's be real, when it comes to something like the V7 line - the Stone (like the C before it) has something tiny like $500 or so of margin, so it's not exactly a huge money maker for them.

FREIGHT is a REAL cost that they must pay out - even if it's only around $300 that's 3/5ths of their potential profit on a Stone.

Now PREP is a REAL COST too - that if they don't SUCK AT LIFE they actually pay an employee to uncrate, go over, and PROPERLY SET UP THE BIKE. What's that going to cost them another $100 MINIMUM if done right? So now they're down to 1/5th the possible profit on a V7.

And they have got to pay rent (or a mortgage), keep the lights on, stock parts and gear... how many Stones would they need to sell a YEAR to just pay the mortgage, no wait, JUST TO PAY THE ELECTRIC BILL at $100/Stone? A couple of dozen just to keep the lights on, and more than were produced and sold worldwide to pay the mortgage.

Look I get wanting to get a deal. I understand waiting and buying a leftover if you can save some money (if it makes a difference to you getting a bike or not, maybe someone really can't afford it before some discounts).

But IF EVERYONE used that model when buying, then small dealerships of small volume brand DAMN WELL BETTER HAVE ANOTHER REVENUE STREAM cause there's no way they are surviving on sales.

Now for most dealerships SERVICE plays a very big part of that revenue stream. Of course, if you're like me and probably aren't taking it back to them for service, then I REALLY better open the wallet for a reasonable purchase price if I want them to be around next time I want to buy a bike (or maybe even have someone else fix it for a change).