Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started  (Read 9315 times)

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #240 on: November 02, 2017, 10:11:15 PM »
Fitted a pair of new repro rubber hand grips, the original type that have almost no padding and leave your hands numb

And I had a set of repro decals for the original switches, some of the original decals were missing or faded out, these are a decent match and cheap







Gregory Bender made me a complete new wire harness and all of the sub harness kits, Greg makes perfect copies, if you are rebuilding a Guzzi Greg can make a harness for you, all models.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_wiring_harness.html



I fitted the main harness, the sub harness kits yet to go in
















« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 10:14:59 PM by canuck750 »
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #241 on: November 03, 2017, 07:15:48 AM »
Looking great!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 07:18:03 AM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - A
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - B
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped


Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #242 on: November 06, 2017, 10:50:48 AM »
I continue to install the sub harness kits, checking continuity on the RH switch I have a dead line, so I did what I should have done before fitting the switch, pulled it apart to find a lot of corrosion,



A fine wire brush cleaned up the contacts and I spliced in Greg Benders sub harness to send new wires back to the multi pin plug, fitted a new ground lug contact to the bars and it seems to be solved



Lesson learned again, 40 year old bike and everything and I do mean everything needs to be disassembled, checked, cleaned, replaced etc.....
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Online Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #243 on: November 06, 2017, 11:15:31 AM »
Lesson learned again, 40 year old bike and everything and I do mean everything needs to be disassembled, checked, cleaned, replaced etc.....

Looking great Jim, it will be one fine machine when you're done. And I could not agree more with your statement above. All the issues I had with my bike were almost exclusively connected to parts which I thought were good enough and then didn't take apart. So yeah lesson learned EVERYTHING needs to be taken apart and checked. Even the much newer parts on mine like the clutch mastercylinder and so on.

Looking forward to see the next installment of your build. I'm following along with interest even if I don't post everytime. And I'm sure I'm not the only one to do so.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #244 on: November 08, 2017, 10:27:03 PM »
I received some new Dellorto carb parts today from the world wide Laverda Guru and all around great guy Wolfgang Haerter - Columbia Car and Cycle in Nakusp British Columbia, Canada. Wolfgang stocks an amazing inventory of NOS Laverda parts and a very big stock of Dellorto, CEV, Tomaselli, IKON shocks and other lines of Italian motorcycle parts.

http://www.laverda.ca/

Wolfgang ships world wide and he can find obscure parts for many Italian bikes.

My Laverda 750 SF1 uses Dellorto PHF 36 carbs similar to those on the Le Mans and I had a hard time getting the Laverda to idle and take off smoothly, Wolfgang replaced the atomizers and slides along with O rings, gaskets and fuel valves, needles and jets. Wolfgang tells me that on the non-filter bikes the Dellorto atomizers are due for replacement after 30,000 miles and in most cases the slides are badly worn. Wolfgang sent me new 60/3 slides but the new ones need some machining, the castings on the underside of the slide are too wide for he old carbs, simple machining required

old slide on top, new on the bottom



middle slide after machining



The original slides on this LeMans are pretty scored and the new ones fit much tighter. Hopefully these rebuilt Dellortos will provide smooth idle and crisp running.

1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #245 on: November 09, 2017, 08:23:22 AM »
Crazy to see the many subtle variations of the same part. Did you have to build-up somehow the slide/wall you machined out?

What do those slide walls go over? I don't have a carb in front of me, and my brain isn't pulling up any recent memories of what that carb body looks like in those spots.
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - A
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - B
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #246 on: November 09, 2017, 09:47:08 AM »
Crazy to see the many subtle variations of the same part. Did you have to build-up somehow the slide/wall you machined out?

What do those slide walls go over? I don't have a carb in front of me, and my brain isn't pulling up any recent memories of what that carb body looks like in those spots.

Nothing has to be built up, only machined away. The slide base is flat on one side and 'cut away' on the opposite. The cast carburetor body is machined to accept the diameter of the slide + clearance, in the base of the carb along the receiving 'flat' side there is a recess machined into the carb body that the 'wall' of the slide (visible form the underside of the slide) will nest into. If the tabs on the new slide are not machined off the slide can not fully nest into the carb body and the slide will not fully close.

This is the closed side (non cutaway side) of the slide in the fully closed (off) position



Opposite (cut away) side



When the slide of fully closed the flat base of the slide makes contact with bottom of the cast carb body ' shutting the door'

The idle speed screw fits into one of the cut out ramps that is next to the tab to be machined back.

I don't know why Dellorto cut a ramp on each side of the slide.

s for why these new slides don't fit out of the box, well Dellorto must have changed the carb body casting to accept the tab mass.

Scored and sloppy slides leak air, as air gets by the slide the engine speed picks up.
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #247 on: November 09, 2017, 01:12:30 PM »

The idle speed screw fits into one of the cut out ramps that is next to the tab to be machined back.

I don't know why Dellorto cut a ramp on each side of the slide.


Ah, that's it. The ramp for the needle, makes sense. Having it on each side is likely to accommodate the same barrel/part for both D or S (right or left) carb bodies. Will the steep ramp like that be a problem? Will you need to have a fatter, more rounded (blunt) adjustment needle tip?

I think they exist, probably because of these variations...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 01:14:29 PM by Groover »
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - A
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - B
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #248 on: November 09, 2017, 02:45:51 PM »
Ah, that's it. The ramp for the needle, makes sense. Having it on each side is likely to accommodate the same barrel/part for both D or S (right or left) carb bodies. Will the steep ramp like that be a problem? Will you need to have a fatter, more rounded (blunt) adjustment needle tip?

I think they exist, probably because of these variations...

I will let you know once the new atomizers arrive and I can get the carbs back together

Jim
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #249 on: November 10, 2017, 10:04:07 PM »
I removed the terminal connectors from the alternator wire harness to slide the reproduction rubber boot over the loom,



Refitted connectors



Connected the alternator wires to the terminals



And then installed the cover, rubber boot fits into the groove in the alternator cover



New ignition switch





Installed the switch into the steel holder and fitted a repro rubber cover





Starter wiring and neutral indicator



The bike was missing the brake reservoir level indicator cap, found a good used one, cleaned the terminals up





Waiting on parts to finish a lot of jobs off, hopefully they arrive next week.
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #250 on: November 11, 2017, 03:04:55 AM »
Lovely :grin: :thumb: Thanks Jim.
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #251 on: November 11, 2017, 05:02:46 AM »
Great stuff!!

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #252 on: November 11, 2017, 09:08:16 AM »
This thread is like a Bible for me, as a guide for my Mk 2.
Utterly  invaluable...

Offline thomas

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #253 on: November 11, 2017, 12:16:03 PM »
Hi
Popular wisdom reckons it's a good idea to rotate the alternator stator by 120 such that the brush holder moves from the 12 o'clock position to the 8 o'clock position.
When it is in the 12 o'clock position riding over a bump can cause the brushes to momentarily break contact with the sliprings and this is not a good thing. I think this is also mentioned in Guzziology?
Doing this will also give the extra length of the wiring somewhere to go.

regards
Thomas
 

I removed the terminal connectors from the alternator wire harness to slide the reproduction rubber boot over the loom,
SNIP
Connected the alternator wires to the terminals



SNIP

Waiting on parts to finish a lot of jobs off, hopefully they arrive next week.
Guzzi riders represent the ragged fringe of motorcycling!
1980 Guzzi SP1000 & 1979 Guzzi 850 LeMans II
1969 Honda CB750 Four & 1971 CB750 Four & 1977 Seeley CB750F
1996 Yamaha YZF750SP
1983 Bimota KB-3
1966 Ducati 50 SL/1
1938 Miele 98cc & 1955? Miele 50cc

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #254 on: November 11, 2017, 06:23:06 PM »
Hi
Popular wisdom reckons it's a good idea to rotate the alternator stator by 120 such that the brush holder moves from the 12 o'clock position to the 8 o'clock position.
When it is in the 12 o'clock position riding over a bump can cause the brushes to momentarily break contact with the sliprings and this is not a good thing. I think this is also mentioned in Guzziology?
Doing this will also give the extra length of the wiring somewhere to go.

regards
Thomas

Great tip, thanks Thomas,

time to rotate the stator!
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #255 on: November 12, 2017, 05:02:53 PM »
I got a new choke lever from Columbia Car and Cycle, had to scratch my head for a while to figure out how it comes apart to get new cables onto the fitting, flip the lever into full open and then unspin the lever part form the body and pull he lever end free of the cylinder

Powder coated the two bracket parts



Bolt the cylinder head bracket to the cylinder clamp





And attach the assembly to the left hand cylinder head



I dug the original seat out of storage, cleaned it as best I could then applied three coats of liquid black shoe polish and shoe protectant clear coat, looks much better, still worn but it has no rips and its original, I am still going to try and repair the new reproduction but not holding my breath

Attached the signal light extensions Greg Bender made up for me, zip tied the separate wires together, fitted new rubber seat bumpers





And its on the bike





1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Offline twowings

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #256 on: November 12, 2017, 07:08:36 PM »
This thread is like Zen Meditation for a Guzzi owner!
Seeing your attention to detail and the  fantastic results calms my soul...thanks for sharing it!
"Non e la velocita che uccide ... la decelerazione piuttosto rapida fa!"

"Meandering is the most spiritual form of motion." - James R. Petersen

2008 Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 in Corsa Rosso, naturally!

Online Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #257 on: November 12, 2017, 11:16:42 PM »
I would not presume to pick anything you have done.
Is the turn indicator lens upside down for a reason ? This is the best thread I've ever seen on this topic, and thank you for your guidance.
Huzo.

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #258 on: November 13, 2017, 09:33:01 AM »
I would not presume to pick anything you have done.
Is the turn indicator lens upside down for a reason.

I have a feeling Canuck750 makes these "mistakes" to see if we are actually paying attention.  :grin:
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - A
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE - B
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #259 on: November 13, 2017, 10:36:58 AM »
I would not presume to pick anything you have done.
Is the turn indicator lens upside down for a reason ? This is the best thread I've ever seen on this topic, and thank you for your guidance.
Huzo.

Good eye, hadn't noticed that until now, need to check the other 3 :wink:
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #260 on: November 14, 2017, 05:34:30 PM »
I got this reproduction instrument bezel in today's mail, unfortunately like all the other ones listed online this one has the extra hole cut out for the center mount ignition key, post Le Mans MKI.



So I need to come up with a plan to seamlessly cover the key opening



So that it looks like this



Both the original and the repro have the cast vertical ridge centred on the bezel (painted white on the repro).

I am considering cutting out a flat section of the old bezel, shaping it and gluing it over the opening on the reproduction part.

Any other ideas to make a hole go away that I have not thought of?

On another front the Electronic Ignition also came in from HMB in Germany,

I have never trued the Newtronic ignition but have fitted the Dyna to at least four Guzzi Tonti bikes with dual point distributors. This one is a little different, but it has good simple instructions, anyone have any real world experience with these and have any tips on use?


« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 05:43:00 PM by canuck750 »
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #261 on: November 14, 2017, 09:31:08 PM »
As for attaching/gluing a flat part over the hole, I can think of two options. 1) Use a circular piece which just covers the hole. 2) make a bigger, six sided piece to correspond with the whole flat area around the hole and glue that.                                                                                       
               Good luck Jim :thumb:
Oz
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As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline jvb

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #262 on: November 14, 2017, 11:50:21 PM »
Or you can cover with Falcon logo MG part number 17517700 as used as the steering stem bung (30mm)


upload multiple pictures
. Ignition hole 22mm.

Nice build.

Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #263 on: November 15, 2017, 05:42:43 AM »
I was thinking a tight fitting rubber bung may work well

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #264 on: November 15, 2017, 09:33:16 AM »
Good ideas, I think I will see if I can find a plug of some sort, the MG cap is nice but I don't want to draw attention to the fix
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

Online Rick4003

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #265 on: November 15, 2017, 02:55:19 PM »
You could turn up a plug in your lathe out of black delrin or something similar and vapourblast it to get the same finish as the original dash has.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #266 on: November 15, 2017, 11:05:50 PM »
Parking the instrument bezel while I mull over what to do, I may cut out the whole solid piece off the old one and then mate it to the new one, its an all or nothing approach...

So lets build some carbs, I apologize in advance, this is going to take a while .......

the new atomizers and needles showed up today, lots and lots of small parts



These are the old ones being replaced, most of them look not bad but the minute wear won't be visible to the eye and if the bike doesn't run right then what's the point of rebuilding everything else



Float valve seat gasket



Screw in the brass seat and then thread in the new atomizer



Main jet holder



New main jet - 145



This part, don't know what its called



low speed jet



new fuel filter



new gasket on the fuel fitting bolt



New mixture screw, spring, washer and O ring



Choke jet with a new O ring



This jet that fits into the top of the accelerator pump body





idle speed screw and spring



And this two piece brass part with two O rings





New fuel valve clipped t the float



Setting the float height



Temporary set the new choke plungers and springs



New tiny O ring on the choke cable guide body



New needles, clip on 2nd position



New O ring on the cap



Secondary throttle cables fitted through the slide, then the needle and clip





New diaphragm and gasket





Remove the lever set screw



Pull out the shaft



Then remove the felt seal



Grease the seal and then fit it back into the cap



Fitted the new Teflon washers either side of the shaft,, tighten the set screw and replaced the top cap.





The final touch new screended intakes



Hopefully they function as good as they look



That's a serious looking carburetor






1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #267 on: November 15, 2017, 11:35:31 PM »
Bugger it!
It's official, you are in a different league. The fact remains that if your tutorial is followed, similar results should be achievable, but I don't think I'm that good.
(By a fair margin)...
I've posted a few things that have grown some legs, and there's been other beauties, but this is the best thread I've seen, bar none...
As motivation....?
Un paralleled. :bow:

Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #268 on: November 16, 2017, 06:04:44 AM »
It's been a long time since I touched carbs....brought back a lot of memories looking at the build up.

Those carbs do look the business!!!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 06:06:21 AM by TRw1 »

Online canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #269 on: November 16, 2017, 02:42:05 PM »
The fact remains that if your tutorial is followed, similar results should be achievable,

You can and will produce a great restoration, tackle the work in segments, completing one assembly at a time to keep interest and momentum going.

Looking forward to seeing your LM II, they are rare beasts, I have seen a few CX100's but real LM II's are very rare over here having never been officially imported to North America. I had a chance to buy one two years ago close to me in Canada and passed, I think I made a mistake and should have bought it. I have seen pictures of an original white LM II and I think they look fantastic.

Cheers

Jim
1972 Eldorado, 1973 V7 Sport,
1973 Laverda SF1, 1973 Benelli 650 Tornado, 1974 750S, 1977 Le Mans, 1978 Moto Morini 500,1993 1000S
2016 BMW K1600 GTLE, 2008 KLR 650, 2015 KLR 650


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