Author Topic: disagreement  (Read 2304 times)

Online John A

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disagreement
« on: February 14, 2018, 02:06:56 PM »
since its winter I took apart my 7/37 rear drive box on my sidecar rig to see how it was doing. They were some used gears that were given to me by Charlie of Antietam cycle that had been improperly shimmed from someone else that Charlie wouldn't sell. Thanks Charlie! anyway the gears are doing OK but I disagreed with what I had shimmed them at. so I reshimmed them. not much but it got me to thinking that if I set the valve clearance and come back and recheck them the next day or even a few hours later, I usually will disagree with what I set them at. Curious, but I knew another person who had the same experience so I wonder if that is a common thing to make an adjustment and then not be satisfied with it at a later date. it seems more rare to me that ill say that its just the way it should be. Its a subjective judgment call and while the adjustment is fine, I feel the need to change it slightly. Anyone else?
John
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Re: disagreement
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 02:15:33 PM »
 So you are constantly arguing with yourself John ? Hmm , probably better than arguing with someone else  :shocked: :laugh:

 Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 02:22:58 PM »
So what *caused* this disagreement? A whine?
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 02:23:12 PM »
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Re: disagreement
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 02:23:12 PM »

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 02:32:49 PM »
Did you ever see that episode of Monty Python when a fellow approached a kiosk with a sign above it that said, "Arguments." He stepped up and told the attendant, "I've come for an argument." The attendant looked up and replied, "No you haven't..."
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Online RinkRat II

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 02:47:39 PM »

 So John, If your wrong, do you apologize to yourself and take yourself out to a nice dinner? :evil:

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Offline rodekyll

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 03:00:54 PM »
Assuming you're using Prussian Blue or similar to set up the gears, the trick is to get the mesh pattern right and then button the goddam thing up and never think about it again.  Ever.  Don't even wipe off the blue.  Just slap a lid on it and button it down.  I'm sure my hair loss and prostate problems are all do to overthinking the mesh and pinion preload on my differential.  If I'd followed my own advice I'd be a much younger man.

Online John A

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 03:12:54 PM »
So what *caused* this disagreement? A whine?


It looked like the pinion might have been too deep in the crown. I only changed it because I could and its winter. No whine or anything. If I don't take David's advice and look at it next year will I disagree with that?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 03:41:17 PM by John A »
John
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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
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Offline Huzo

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 10:38:18 PM »
Did you ever see that episode of Monty Python when a fellow approached a kiosk with a sign above it that said, "Arguments." He stepped up and told the attendant, "I've come for an argument." The attendant looked up and replied, "No you haven't..."
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Offline not-fishing

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 04:57:35 AM »
Years ago, well actually many decades my 7th grade Science teacher had us all measure various objects many times with an accuracy of 1/2 the smallest mark on the ruler.

We all found out very quickly that physical measurements vary markedly each time even with "so called" professionals.

Accuracy takes real effort.

Funny how every so often in Construction I run into an Inspector who doesn't know how to use a measuring tape
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Offline Dukedesmo

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 05:11:21 AM »


Quote

Did you ever see that episode of Monty Python when a fellow approached a kiosk with a sign above it that said, "Arguments." He stepped up and told the attendant, "I've come for an argument." The attendant looked up and replied, "No you haven't..."

>

Five minute argument or the full half hour?


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Online normzone

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2018, 11:48:22 AM »
I've already paid you for the hour.

Being aware of the uncertainty in all measurements is part of being qualified to split hairs and argue about it.

Valves with a feeler gauge is a subjective issue by touch. Back when we built the pyramids you should have heard the arguments about cubits and calibration.
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Offline Tom

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2018, 01:14:55 PM »
You know....being exact is an art not a science........ :evil:     :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Offline mechanicsavant

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 08:33:53 AM »
That's why they make "go-no go" feeler guages. As for hypoid gear sets you can go on longer than "which motor oil" thread! :violent1:

Offline rodekyll

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 01:30:39 PM »
That's why they make "go-no go" feeler guages. As for hypoid gear sets you can go on longer than "which motor oil" thread! :violent1:

That's one I never understood.  I mean -- for OHC with puck adjusters I can see how having the shim set incremented every thousandth would be cost prohibitive, And you'd never make flat-rate.  But we know how much difference a couple thou makes in the performance of our pushrod engines.  So how can you have a "precision racing machine" where it's impossible to dial in the lash?

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 10:08:15 PM »
That's one I never understood.  I mean -- for OHC with puck adjusters I can see how having the shim set incremented every thousandth would be cost prohibitive, And you'd never make flat-rate.  But we know how much difference a couple thou makes in the performance of our pushrod engines.  So how can you have a "precision racing machine" where it's impossible to dial in the lash?


local mob make shims in .01mm increments, that�s about 4 tenths of a thou. Bet you can buy similar in US. Factory .05mm increments are not the only way. Others grind shims
Yes racebikes are dialed in

Offline rodekyll

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 10:18:35 PM »

local mob make shims in .01mm increments, that�s about 4 tenths of a thou. Bet you can buy similar in US. Factory .05mm increments are not the only way. Others grind shims
Yes racebikes are dialed in

I still have a massive array of shims and shim pullers for a lot of the early OHC cars.  The only ones we could get paid to grind to perfection (not an easy task with those hardened pucks) were custom jobs where the customer cared.  The only place I worked that I did that was an outfit that combined a full service machine shop with rally car prep.  The owner named his kid Camshaft Axlerod.  For regular maintenance jobs anywhere I worked it was go/no with massive tolerances.  Even those we had a hard time meeting flat-rate if a lot needed to be swapped.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 04:29:54 AM »
I still have a massive array of shims and shim pullers for a lot of the early OHC cars.  The only ones we could get paid to grind to perfection (not an easy task with those hardened pucks) were custom jobs where the customer cared.  The only place I worked that I did that was an outfit that combined a full service machine shop with rally car prep.  The owner named his kid Camshaft Axlerod.  For regular maintenance jobs anywhere I worked it was go/no with massive tolerances.  Even those we had a hard time meeting flat-rate if a lot needed to be swapped.
Sorry RK I misunderstood
That's one I never understood.   So how can you have a "precision racing machine" where it's impossible to dial in the lash?

I think you meant time consuming
Impossible means you die trying
Semantics or mere pedantry?
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: disagreement
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 04:39:56 AM »
Sorry RK I misunderstood
I think you meant time consuming
Impossible means you die trying
Semantics or mere pedantry?
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