Replating options

[hidn45]

So, just for the mental exercise, I've been contemplating options to solve my chrome bore problem with the recently acquired '77 T-3.  I'm not prepared to open it up just yet, but I'm assuming they're chrome, & it'll be my daily, so it needs to be right.

My specific question is whether any here have used the services of PowerSeal USA out of Phoenixville, PA.  They're a bit cheaper than Millenium, & a bit closer, but it's false economy if I'm not getting a comparable product.  I've heard good things about Millenium, but not much of anything about PowerSeal.

I'm also keeping the Gilardoni option on the table.  That's going to depend to some extent on the condition of the pistons once I get to them.  If they're not worth using then I'll just go for the whole ball o' wax & be done with it.  S'posed to have been a good runner 20 years ago when it was parked, but....

The amassed experience of the hive-mind here is an invaluable resource & I truly appreciate any help y'all can share - TIA

Randy

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I've only used Millennium for replating, so can't comment on Powerseal or any of the others. Millennium has been easy to deal with and always does an excellent job though. $209.90 per bore IIRC.

[Don G]

The last quote that I had got in October 2017 was $274.95 USD each, and yes that was from Millennium Technologies. I opted for the Gilardoni's as the price difference was very little difference especially considering all of the new components that you get in the kits.  DonG

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The last quote that I had got in October 2017 was $274.95 USD each, and yes that was from Millennium Technologies. I opted for the Gilardoni's as the price difference was very little difference especially considering all of the new components that you get in the kits.  DonG

I don't know why you were quoted $274.95 - the last set I had done was Sept. 2017 and retail was $209.95. I see the price has gone up $10.00 since: http://www.millennium-tech.net/serviceInfo.php?id=7 Are you sure that wasn't CAD (219.95 USD = 274.62 CAD at the moment).

[Don G]

Could be, don't know. I just assumed that an American company was quoting in USD, oh well he forked himself out of some business by not indicating Dollars or Peso's.  DonG

[hidn45]

So, if my math is right, we're looking at $2-300 difference to get all new Gilardonis, depending on where you buy, figuring adding rings if you go with the re-plate.  Next question - can we get them?  Last I checked Scrambler Cycle they were sold out for Eldo/ T-3 sets, although they had an active eBay sale at the time....  They also show gaskets in their kit, whereas others do not, for more money.  Am I missing something?  (Maybe that's why they're sold out?) 

Is Gilardoni production cyclical & we're waiting for another run?  Too bad I didn't have the bux when I first saw them - they were available then....

As mentioned, it will depend somewhat on the condition of useable parts once I tear into her.  Unless someone has a sale between now & then....

Thanks again for the help - this is good stuff!  I'm learning, if slowly....

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

So, if my math is right, we're looking at $2-300 difference to get all new Gilardonis, depending on where you buy, figuring adding rings if you go with the re-plate.  Next question - can we get them?  Last I checked Scrambler Cycle they were sold out for Eldo/ T-3 sets, although they had an active eBay sale at the time....  They also show gaskets in their kit, whereas others do not, for more money.  Am I missing something?  (Maybe that's why they're sold out?) 

Is Gilardoni production cyclical & we're waiting for another run?  Too bad I didn't have the bux when I first saw them - they were available then....

As mentioned, it will depend somewhat on the condition of useable parts once I tear into her.  Unless someone has a sale between now & then....

Thanks again for the help - this is good stuff!  I'm learning, if slowly....

I've done this numerous times here, but let's "run the numbers" again.

- replating                           440.00
- shipping to and from  ^^     50.00?
- Deves ring sets                  130.00
- piston pin circlips (4)           13.24
Total                                 $633.24

Ambassador Gilardoni kits from Scrambler Cycle  $824.84

Difference: $191.60

For that 191.60 extra you get new pistons, piston pins and gaskets.

With my V700 project, I really had no choice but to replate - Gilardoni hasn't made V700 kits for years and I don't want to go "big bore" with it. I bought new Asso 80 mm pistons (complete with pins, circlips and rings) off ebay for $256 shipped, replating will cost me ~ $360 (since I'm a "dealer") for a total of ~ $616.00 + shipping.

Gilardoni does seem to produce the cylinder sets in batches. Once a batch is sold out through all of the various parts retailers, then there's usually a few months lag time before the next batch is produced.

[hauto]

Use power seal all the time.They do quality work.

[Hahnda]

I am currently out of the 850 kits. I do have 750 kits in stock $750 plus shipping.  Shipping usually runs $25 or less depending on location.

Charlie, you may have been quoting my eBay price? They take a hefty cut so I have to up the price a bit when selling there.

https://scrambler-cycle.myshopify.com/products/moto-guzzi-ambassador-v7-special-83mm-gilardoni-piston-cylinder-kits-w-hd-gskts

Prices do fluctuate a bit depending on the dollar to euro conversion.

[blackcat]

I recently picked up a Lemans I project and one of the cylinders is scored from the clip:

I looked at Millenniums webpage and based on their posted prices with fixing the above it was going to be in the $900 range with shipping. I'd go with the Gillardoni's but I don't want the big bore kit as there are no 850's to be found, so I'm just going with another cylinder (thanks Mr.Roper), have it bored to the .20 over pistons and call it a day.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I am currently out of the 850 kits. I do have 750 kits in stock $750 plus shipping.  Shipping usually runs $25 or less depending on location.

Charlie, you may have been quoting my eBay price? They take a hefty cut so I have to up the price a bit when selling there.

https://scrambler-cycle.myshopify.com/products/moto-guzzi-ambassador-v7-special-83mm-gilardoni-piston-cylinder-kits-w-hd-gskts

Prices do fluctuate a bit depending on the dollar to euro conversion.

Yes, I was using the ebay price. Your website price would cut the difference down to ~ $140. To me, it's a "no brainer": buy Gilardonis and get new pistons and pins, everything ready to bolt on.

[hidn45]

I am currently out of the 850 kits. I do have 750 kits in stock $750 plus shipping.  Shipping usually runs $25 or less depending on location.

Charlie, you may have been quoting my eBay price? They take a hefty cut so I have to up the price a bit when selling there.

https://scrambler-cycle.myshopify.com/products/moto-guzzi-ambassador-v7-special-83mm-gilardoni-piston-cylinder-kits-w-hd-gskts

Prices do fluctuate a bit depending on the dollar to euro conversion.

Thanks Kevin.  Any projection (from you or the Eyetalians) of when the pipeline may begin to fill again?  Any chance you could fill us in when the T-3 kits are in hand?

Btw, hauto, thanks for that - if I find absolutely pristine slugs when I crack 'er open, then the difference in dollars may be the tipping point, but anything sketchy in there & I'll prolly have to bite the bullet & replace the whole works....  If I may be nosy - what sort of work are you doing that PowerSeal helps you with?

Again, thanks for the help, all!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Have you checked stock at Harper's and Moto International?
http://www.harpermoto.com/gilardoni-cylinder-kit-850-eldorado-gt-t-t-3.html
http://www.motointernational.com/store/parts/pistoncylinder-set-850-t-t3-eldorado

You could always buy out of Europe.
http://hmb-guzzi.de/Cylinder-Kit-83mm-850-GT-850-T-T3-T4 (613.36 Euros/762.95 USD)
https://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Engine/Cylinder/Cylinder-compl-T3-V7-GT-83-mm::3972.html (~ 608.72 Euros/757.11 USD)

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Joe W. reports that US Chrome charges $175.00 per bore, so you could save some $$ by using them vs. Millennium.

[BillinPA]

Mg cycle shows 850 kit in stock

[hidn45]

Charlie- thanks, hadn't thought about Moto Int'l, they're so "far away", but even with shipping they're very competitive.  To me right now, price trumps availability, since I'm not really in a hurry - I've got more time than money at the moment, I'm in research/ saving mode, & I've got to get another project off the lift & sold to help fund the T3.

Your other post also brings up a couple issues/ questions.  With y'all's indulgence, I'm going to be a noob here, in an attempt to better understand the process (& maybe help the next guy...).  I'm going to pick on US Chrome, only because their price list presented the question  - my cylinders need to have the old chrome stripped first, no?  Then in the process of building back the surface with whichever proprietary alloy, then honing, they match the cylinders to my provided pistons.  Am I close on that?  Looks like some charge separately & some package it all together, so you have to see & understand the whole package, depending on who you're talking to.  And I think I remember reading somewhere that they'll set my rings, for a fee (furnish &/ or install)? 

And, about honing, I fear we may get into some semantics.  When these folks talk about honing, they're referring to using an abrasive to provide a properly sized & trued bore, yes?  In some other threads on nickel-silicon carbide plating, there was discussion of "honing" vs. "deglazing", which will come 100K miles or so down the road, when I freshen up the top end, with new rings, etc.  I won't need new "cross-hatching" from a hone job like I'm used to, because the alloy itself provides the "nooks & crannies to hold the melted butter" to paraphrase the old English muffin commercial.

Of course I know I'm overthinking this, but, it's what I do...  Thinking is learning, learning is living

Thanks again all, for your sharing, & for your patience -
randy

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Your other post also brings up a couple issues/ questions.  With y'all's indulgence, I'm going to be a noob here, in an attempt to better understand the process (& maybe help the next guy...).  I'm going to pick on US Chrome, only because their price list presented the question  - my cylinders need to have the old chrome stripped first, no?  Then in the process of building back the surface with whichever proprietary alloy, then honing, they match the cylinders to my provided pistons.  Am I close on that?  Looks like some charge separately & some package it all together, so you have to see & understand the whole package, depending on who you're talking to.  And I think I remember reading somewhere that they'll set my rings, for a fee (furnish &/ or install)? 

Looking at their "Cylinder Plating Prices" page, I think the $175 per bore I was quoted is actually a discounted cost for businesses since the retail cost listed is $230. This makes them virtually the same as Millennium price-wise. It does say if you're an AMA member, that you get a discount. All of them charge as a "package" not "a la carte".

Strip, Bore, NiCom, Hone to Std. Size                                                                                                $230.00

http://www.usnicom.com/plating/pricing

[hidn45]

Yeah, I figured that was an insider or AMA break, but wasn't sure if that was off the "plate only" $199 - maybe that's for somebody that bored out an alloy cylinder?  Meh, small matter - for our application it seems like prices are fairly even for plating.  The Gilardoni kits OTOH, vary a fair amount, from what I've been seeing....

[Turin]

Great thread. I was thinking about going the plating route, but Charlie's math steered me in the other direction. Just purchased my 750 kit. woo hoo!

[hidn45]

Thanks Turin! Glad we could help (not that I helped much, but still....)  Makes me feel better about using up the bandwidth.

Get 'em while they're hot - Spring is coming!  Unfortunately we've got to get thru mud season, but, this too shall pass.....

And remember - pic's, or it didn't happen....

randy