Relay clicks when ignition is turned on. Will not turn over.

[Dwirfel]

Good Morning!!!

Please forgive me...  I'm new to Moto Guzzi and worse yet, I don't know my way around forums... 

However, I bought a 2007 Norge for my son and it has issues.  I need HELP!  Recently, it stopped running as he was cruising down the highway.  He saw a disconnected ECU symbol on his dash.   I had to trailer him to my garage.  In my garage, we found that the bike will not turnover and it has a loud clicking relay under the seat.   I checked the battery and cleaned the terminals.  Upon replacing the relay the problem remained the same, however  it would occasionally stop clicking and the bike would turnover, but not start, then the clicking would reappear.  We were able to make that happen several times, but not consistently.  Today, I cannot make the clicking stop regardless of how much I manipulate the wires... 

I replaced the battery with new, checked the fuses, cleaned & applied dielectric grease to all connections(under the seat)... Upon switching on the ignition, the dash continues to cycle up, but the relay clicks the entire time (wont stop until the ignition is off), and after the cycle, the symbol of disconnected ECU appears.  (I have no clue where the ECU is).  Basically, the problem remains the same...

I don't hear the fuel pump cycle, but I don't know if I could over the clicking!  However, I did hear it the few times that the clicking stopped for a few seconds. 

The relay is a four pin and is the one connected to the large harness that ties into the main harness...

The nearest MOTO GUZZI dealer, in MD, is swamped and can't take the bike until late August...  That sucks!  Maybe with some guidance, we can get back on the road!!!

Thanks guys!  I hope that I posted it the correct place!!!  Dereck

[Two Checks]

Did you apply dielectric grease between the wire and battery terminal? If so remove it.
Have the battery load tested.

[Vagrant]

We have been trained to use deoxit or Vaseline not dielectric. Flush the ignition key hole out with it or contact cleaner too. Protect the front fender first.
Guzzi relays suck! Replace all with 5 prong. Then next time you can just rotate them forward one to check. Pull and clean fuse holder too.

[Dwirfel]

Okay... so I cleaned off the grease from the battery terminal and leads. That didn’t make a difference.

In an attempt To remove the fuel tank, I snapped the red fitting that connects to the fuel pump...  I’m still not sure how that disconnects, but I need a new one... 

[Kiwi Dave]

Do a research on "Startus Interuptus" on this forum and others.  There's a wealth of information covering this very issue. 

[oldbike54]

Do a research on "Startus Interuptus" on this forum and others.  There's a wealth of information covering this very issue.

 I think Dave has it . Good luck .

 Dusty

[moto]

Welcome to the forum.

To me, your problem sounds a bit different from the usual so-called "startus interruptus," which involves a too-low current supplied to the starter relay. I may be wrong, but I don't remember "disconnected ECU" messages or continual cycling of the relay being associated with that problem. [Please correct me, if so, dear forum member.]

Two wiring diagrams that might be appropriate for your son's 2007 Norge 1200 are as follows. The first is for the non-ABS model, which is labeled 2006 but may have been sold as a 2007 model in the U.S.:



The second diagram is for the 2007 ABS model:

.

Both of the wiring diagrams are very similar to my 2007 Griso and to the 2007 Breva 1100. It will probably help further discussions if you can locate the clicking relay on the diagram.

The ECU should be just below the steering head, behind a little shield, I believe.

Breaking the fitting on the fuel tank is a common experience. Many replace it with a metal version from an auto parts store. That should be something a search on this forum would find, or someone will pipe up with a part number.

One step along the way to diagnosing the startus interruptus problem is seeing if a direct 12 volt feed using a new, temporary wire between the positive battery terminal and the starter solenoid will get the bike going. But I'd wait a while for more specific advice in this case, because of that ECU error message. Searching for "startus interruptus" on the forum can fill your time meanwhile, though I think this a case where there are a number of not necessarily consistent pieces of advice on record.

Good luck. There are people on this forum who can help, and will do a better job than me.

Moto

[Dwirfel]

Thank you very much for those diagrams!

[80CX100]

     If you are intending to maintain,repair and tune a modern Moto Guzzi, while you're digesting all of this info and waiting for a replacement fuel connector etc, you may want to consider ordering a Lonelec cable in the meantime;

     That cable will enable your laptop/computer/device to connect to the ECU on the bike and perform a variety of functions; one of which is look at stored faults.

     Owners have tried many different cables, some cheaper, some worked, some didn't; the Lonelec cables eliminate the guesswork, I think they're based in Britain and the price is roughly 23 lbs ? You may solve the problem simply and easily, but if you need the tool, it would be nice to have it in hand.https://www.lonelec.co.uk/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-3pin-Interface-Cable.

     Re your clicking relay issue, it would be nice know which one it is, if you can figure it out and take a photo, someone might recognize it.

     With the continual clicking, I'm thinking a stuck/shorted relay or connector, bad ignition switch, and I almost hate to mention the words, but if the bike is new to you and may have been stored exposed to the weather at times, the digital dashes from those years can be fussy and problematic.

     With the funky disconnected ECU symbol, I'd verify your main electrical connections, grounds etc, and try disconnecting the battery and leaving the key turned on over night, to see if it might clear itself, just a wag lol. 

      Good luck with it

      Kelly

[guzzisteve]

The ECU is under the steering head in front behind a plate. There is a ground wire for it, if loose you will get ECU Disconnect. I would clean the pins in both plugs to it w/deoxit. Same w/dash plug.
Get a Manual?
https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1200/Norge1200_012008_Atelier(GB).pdf

You could also toggle the L/H switch to Diagnostics menu and see what stored as an error active & past
Norge user code for menu is #28315

[blackcat]

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=5072

[Chuck in Indiana]

The ECU is under the steering head in front behind a plate. There is a ground wire for it, if loose you will get ECU Disconnect. I would clean the pins in both plugs to it w/deoxit. Same w/dash plug.
Get a Manual?
https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1200/Norge1200_012008_Atelier(GB).pdf

First.. welcome to WG.  Pay attention to Guzzi Steve.

applied dielectric grease

Doh! Seriously. Don't use that crap except for insulation on the spark plug boots. You *will* be sorry eventually.

In an attempt To remove the fuel tank, I snapped the red fitting that connects to the fuel pump...  I’m still not sure how that disconnects, but I need a new one... 

Doh! You are the first this has happened to.. There are many threads here on how to do it.. and replacement parts.
Welcome to wrenching on Guzzis..  There is a wealth of information on "this old tractor.com"

[Kiwi_Roy]

Good Morning!!!

Please forgive me...  I'm new to Moto Guzzi and worse yet, I don't know my way around forums... 

However, I bought a 2007 Norge for my son and it has issues.  I need HELP!  Recently, it stopped running as he was cruising down the highway.  He saw a disconnected ECU symbol on his dash.   I had to trailer him to my garage.  In my garage, we found that the bike will not turnover and it has a loud clicking relay under the seat.   I checked the battery and cleaned the terminals.  Upon replacing the relay the problem remained the same, however  it would occasionally stop clicking and the bike would turnover, but not start, then the clicking would reappear.  We were able to make that happen several times, but not consistently.  Today, I cannot make the clicking stop regardless of how much I manipulate the wires... 

I replaced the battery with new, checked the fuses, cleaned & applied dielectric grease to all connections(under the seat)... Upon switching on the ignition, the dash continues to cycle up, but the relay clicks the entire time (wont stop until the ignition is off), and after the cycle, the symbol of disconnected ECU appears.  (I have no clue where the ECU is).  Basically, the problem remains the same...

I don't hear the fuel pump cycle, but I don't know if I could over the clicking!  However, I did hear it the few times that the clicking stopped for a few seconds. 

The relay is a four pin and is the one connected to the large harness that ties into the main harness...

The nearest MOTO GUZZI dealer, in MD, is swamped and can't take the bike until late August...  That sucks!  Maybe with some guidance, we can get back on the road!!!

Thanks guys!  I hope that I posted it the correct place!!!  Dereck

Hi Dereck,
               I agree with others Di-electric grease is not good on the connectors, I was taught to use just plain old Vaseline on contacts and especially battery terminals.
Your problem might be as simple as a disconnected main ground, I think you will find that behind the starter motor, it may look ok but remove and clean it anyway, its a common problem.  Jumping the starter solenoid will test the battery, starter and all the main connections you can do that without turning the key ON but make sure the bike is in Neutral first. With a temporary wire (#18 will do) connected to the spade connector on the solenoid touch the other end to the battery + terminal, pull the clutch lever as an extra precaution  against launching the bike, once you are sure all the main wiring is ok then  look further.
I agree with Motto, it doesn't seem like the normal "Startus Interuptus" but an explanation will not go amiss
If you look at the diagrams Moto posted "Startus Interuptus" is caused by a weak supply to the start relay (the yellow wire) The starter solenoid has two coils inside, its designed to use 50 Amps for the split second it takes for the gears to engage then drop back to 10
while its cranking over, the feed to the start relay is not up to the task, too much Voltage is lost along the way through bad connections and undersize wire. The fix is to buy an expensive kit or simply snip the yellow wire before the relay and splice it to a direct feed straight from the battery through a 20 Amp fuse. Also the wire from the relay to solenoid is undersize, it should be 16 gauge or 1.5mm is the metric equivalent however just getting the feed to the relay is usually enough.

[Don G]

Have fun getting at the ECU !  DonG

[Dwirfel]

So, I removed my fuel pump assembly for inspection because I was told that the previous owner once had issues with the filter. It appears fine...   I reconnected the pump's wiring, while it was still removed from the tank, just to see if it made a difference to my main problem.  When I turned the ignition on, the pump made the same/matching clicking noise, but much louder, as I previously heard in the relay, and there was a lot of vibrating while holding onto the pump assembly.  As with the relay, the pump's clicking remained until I turned off the ignition.  I'm wondering if this information gets me any closer to identifying my problem. 

I would love to share the video, but I don't see that option here...  Best I could do is text it, if someone was interested in seeing/hearing it...

[guzzisteve]

It may be the pump making everything wacky. All but ECU disconnect. I stick them in a bucket of fuel & do the same. Good news is they be somewhat reasonably priced.

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30_321&products_id=5389&zenid=12287687d32e46ae21ac7c648708bdfb

[Kiwi_Roy]

Going back to your original post you said it won't turn over, figure that out and I think the pump and ECU disconnect will be taken care of.

[Bert Remington]

Dwirfel -- Moto Guzzi has been making mechanics out riders since 1921 and the superb Norge model line hasn't changed that.  I recommend you buy the paper-version service manual for $25 at https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-workshop-service-manual-2007-Norge-1200/264771658626?hash=item3da59ee382:g:7JgAAOSwhdRYWGcc  I believe they have a print-on-demand service.  I've been very happy with their manuals although they are grayscale rather than the original color but you will often find color pictures on this forum.  And you have the color version in front of you!

Recommended tools include metric T-handle socket wrenches with ball ends; 3/8" drive socket wrenches including 7mm; and a 1/4" or 3/8" digital torque wrench.

It's likely you have misplaced fasteners (eg, non-shouldered in a shouldered location).  Inspect your Norge end-to-end, especially in the tail section where many proper fasteners are hidden and move them to visible locations.  Buying the proper fasteners is an expensive fool's game.

Two topics to avoid: (1) comparing the 4V Norge (your model) with the 8V Norge.   (2) dielectric grease.

When you get his Norge running right, your son will hide the keys from you and tell you to buy your own.

[moto]

....When I turned the ignition on, the pump made the same/matching clicking noise, but much louder, as I previously heard in the relay, and there was a lot of vibrating while holding onto the pump assembly.  As with the relay, the pump's clicking remained until I turned off the ignition.  I'm wondering if this information gets me any closer to identifying my problem....

So the relay and the pump are clicking in unison? The current for the pump comes from terminal 3 of the injection auxiliary relay (30), which is fed via its terminal 5 by fuse C in the small fusebox, probably near the right frame rail above the rear wheel. Pulling fuse C (in the small fuse box) should make the clicking of the fuel pump stop while the relay itself keeps clicking.

The activating current for the injection auxiliary relay (30) flows through its terminals 2 and 1. Tracing the wiring back, we can see that terminal 2 is connected to the battery via the output terminal of the injection main relay (29) and fuse D. Thus, pulling fuse D will stop both relays from clicking, and consequently stop the fuel pump too. This should be confirmed by pulling fuse D.

Having made those two experiments we should know where the problem lies in the wiring diagram.

Back to the injection auxiliary relay (30). Since its terminal 2 is positive when (29) has sent the current from fuse D, we infer that terminal 1 is a connection to a logic-controlled terminal in the ECU that probably grounds it (but could instead just connect it to a lower-potential conductor that is not a ground). So one way that (30) could click is by being activated by the ECU via that wire.

Another way (30) could click is by being fed an intermittent positive current on its terminal 2, which comes from the output of injector main relay (29) and ultimately from fuse D, as discussed. If this is the problem, then both relays will be clicking (which you might be able to tell by holding a screwdriver blade on each in turn). If in fact (29) is also clicking, there are two possible reasons. The +12v wire from the ignition key could be getting an intermittent current. This seems unlikely unless you observe the dash itself flashing (because of the connection of the same wire to terminal 1 of the dash; this terminal is labeled "+12v key" in the second version of the wiring diagram). Alternatively, the ground connection seen just to the left of the battery ground in the diagram could be intermittent.

That ground connection, probably the one behind the starter motor mentioned earlier by Kiwi Row, seems the most likely culprit to me. The second most likely culprit would be the ground wire of the ECU itself, mentioned by guzzisteve.

It is possible the ECU is bad, but I doubt it. In fact, I don't remember any actual diagnoses of bad ECUs.

As for the ECU's multi-pin connectors, I doubt they are the problem. Those connectors are well-designed and appropriately sealed in my opinion, based on my having disconnected and inspected them (on my Griso). I would recommend looking at other possibilities before suspecting them.

Good luck and be sure to report back.

Moto

Edit: Going back to reread guzzisteve's post, I see he points out the "ECU disconnect" message can come from a bad connection of the ECU ground wire. I think he's got it, and that's your problem: an intermittent ECU ground wire connection is interrupting the intended ECU ground signal to terminal 1 of the injector auxiliary relay (30), causing relay (30) and the fuel pump (but not relay 29) to click.

M.



 

[John Croucher]

I found that bumping the bike forward or backwards to rotate the flywheel will let the starter kick in.  A matter of gear timing.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I found that bumping the bike forward or backwards to rotate the flywheel will let the starter kick in.  A matter of gear timing.

I would call that Startus Interuptus, because of the weak Guzzi wiring the solenoid is only delivering a fraction of its intended force, it cannot jamb the gear into mesh.