Downsizing Again...to a 250!

[leafman60]

http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/CSC-TT-250-s/275.htm


$1,895 for a new 250 dual-sport.

[pyoungbl]

Thanks for pointing out the dual pumps.  As I understand it, there are actually two sumps.  One is for the crankcase, the other for the transmission.  Maybe that's why there are two pumps.  Interestingly enough, the V7II has a oil pump in the transmission.  My Stelvio has two pumps but one is high pressure/low volume for stuff like the rods and cams.  The second pump is low pressure/high volume for the oil radiator.

As for oil volume, I'm with you on that.  They don't have much oil capacity.  Of course, neither does my V7 (only about 1.5 qt) with three times the engine capacity.  That's why I added a sump extender for the V7.....probably not needed but it makes me feel good!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Man, that's a lot of bike for that kind of money.. <rummaging through couch cushions>

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Man, that's a lot of bike for that kind of money.. <rummaging through couch cushions>

The TT250 really has me thinking. Selling off the ATK and CCM projects would more than cover it.

[Unkept]

Man, that's a lot of bike for that kind of money.. <rummaging through couch cushions>

You're not kidding!

Hot damn, this is exactly what I wanted a few years ago...

Still want, but....

I'll try and exercise self control, we'll see.

-Joe

[Aaron D.]

That CSC thing is very tempting. I'd need room for it but it has me thinking .

I'd probably need to move at least the scooter or Sport. I will have to ponder if it would fit where I am in life. Also if the dressed model would be sensible-though I have become a soft-bag fan in the last few years.

[Semper-guzzi]

I think most guzzi owners would fair really well with CSC's model of no dealers. It's pretty much what we deal with right now. Most of us get parts from 3 places here in the US.

[Triple Jim]

In my opinion, 16.1 horsepower severely limits the usefulness of the bike.  Compare that to the low 30s for a Ninja 250 (about 25 rear wheel HP), which is actually OK on the highway.

[Muzz]

In my opinion, 16.1 horsepower severely limits the usefulness of the bike.  Compare that to the low 30s for a Ninja 250 (about 25 rear wheel HP), which is actually OK on the highway.

If I read Peter's first post correctly he intends keeping the small block at least, which means the 250 is for "hacking around
"on and having the bigger bike for trips.  In that scenario 16 prancing ponies is probably more than ample. Hang, I did about 200,000 miles on a 12hp 350 Matchy. I suspect the power of the CSC is developed down lower than the Ninja, which is ideal for trail riding and around town use.

As pointed out earlier, the no dealer network is what most of us have anyway. "Moto Guzzi, making mechanics out of riders since 1921".

[jas67]

From the Royal Enfield Himalaya thread over on ADVRider:

I bought one of the CSC RX3's last year and have 6200 trouble free miles on it now. I like it for what it is and it hauled my butt all over the Pacific North West last summer on camping trips. If someone stole it I would definitely miss it but wouldn't be broke financially and I would buy another , rj

6,200 miles isn't much, but, it is a data point.     He definitely seems to like it.

[leafman60]

If I read Peter's first post correctly he intends keeping the small block at least, which means the 250 is for "hacking around
"on and having the bigger bike for trips.  In that scenario 16 prancing ponies is probably more than ample. Hang, I did about 200,000 miles on a 12hp 350 Matchy. I suspect the power of the CSC is developed down lower than the Ninja, which is ideal for trail riding and around town use.

As pointed out earlier, the no dealer network is what most of us have anyway. "Moto Guzzi, making mechanics out of riders since 1921".

I dunno.  He told me that redline was 11,000 RPM on the 250!

[Triple Jim]

If I read Peter's first post correctly he intends keeping the small block at least, which means the 250 is for "hacking around
"on and having the bigger bike for trips.  In that scenario 16 prancing ponies is probably more than ample. Hang, I did about 200,000 miles on a 12hp 350 Matchy. I suspect the power of the CSC is developed down lower than the Ninja, which is ideal for trail riding and around town use.

No argument with your points Muzz, but for me 16 does limit usefulness.  Once you're over about 25 or so, you can use the bike for pretty much anything you might want to.  During a recent meet, a friend declined to go on a 100+ mile ride with the group, concerned that in the mountains he would hold the others back, because he had brought his 16 hp Suzuki TU250.

[pyoungbl]

Leafman, the redline is 9,000 but ignition cutoff is at 11,000.

[jas67]

Leafman, the redline is 9,000 but ignition cutoff is at 11,000.

HP peak is 7,000 RPM, I can't imagine it could even hit the 9,000 RPM redline, except completely unloaded.

No matter, with torque peak at 5,500, and HP peak at 7,000 RPM, there is no reason to rev it that high.

It should do it's intended job well.

[pyoungbl]

Agree that the engine is suited for its purpose.  According to Zongshen data the NC250 engine that is used in the RX3 produces max torque of 23 N-M@ 7,000 and max horsepower 19 KW@9,000.  Due to the gearing it takes 9K rpm to cruise on the Interstate....not where I'd want to ride this puppy but the engine can sustain long periods of redline use.  The factory tests each bike on a dyno and they must reach 84 mph to pass.  Most can get up to 90.  This is with no wind resistance so it does not translate into doing over 80 on the highway.

Here's a link:  http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2016-new-design-genuine-zongshen-NC250_60045610311.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.39.yFGX0U

Peter Y.

[Triple Jim]

According to Zongshen data the NC250 engine that is used in the RX3 produces max torque of 23 N-M@ 7,000 and max horsepower 19 KW@9,000.

Something's wrong.  The link in the 1st post says "Horsepower: 16.1 @ 7,000 rpm".  Your Alibaba link says "Max power(km/r/min): 19/9000".  Assuming that's a misprint and they meant to say kW instead of km, 19 kW is a little over 25 hp.

Maybe 25 is crankshaft hp anbd 16.1 is rear wheel hp.  Just guessing.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Isn't hp for the RX3 21 and the TT250 16.1? Y'all are discussing two different bikes/engines.

[Triple Jim]

Maybe that's the something that's wrong, Charlie.   

[pyoungbl]

Leafman's link was to the 225cc engine on the TT250.  That's where the 16.1 hp @ 7,000 came from.  Although the TT250 is a CSC bike it's not the same as the RX3.  The TT250 is 5 speed, carb, and 225cc; the RX3 is an entirely different powerplant, 6 speed, fuel injected and 249cc.  I can see how one could get confused.  Another difference is that the TT250 is $1.9K, the RX3 is $2K more.

[pyoungbl]

RE the two oil pumps, I just got confirmation from CSC that one pump is for the engine and the other is for the transmission.  It seems that quite a few Asian bikes have dual pumps with this arrangement.

Peter Y.

[Bill N]

In my opinion, 16.1 horsepower severely limits the usefulness of the bike.  Compare that to the low 30s for a Ninja 250 (about 25 rear wheel HP), which is actually OK on the highway.

That's true. In my garage I have my Guzzi EV, Yamaha FJR, and my 2008 250 Ninjette. I love the little bike, I ride it more often than the big bikes. Not a long distance machine but a great ride for day trips and commuting. I'll always have a small bike until I can't ride anymore.
Bill

[acogoff]

RE the two oil pumps, I just got confirmation from CSC that one pump is for the engine and the other is for the transmission.  It seems that quite a few Asian bikes have dual pumps with this arrangement.

Peter Y.

     Thank you for finding that out, I was puzzled as to what engineering shortcoming this was for, but now it makes sense.

[HardAspie]

I seem to recall that decades ago Yamaha applied the dual pump arrangement to a racer to save the energy lost in transmission to splashing oil.

[pyoungbl]

Another reason to have an oil pump in the transmission is to get away from roller bearings and to use plain bearings.  Probably cheaper and offering more bearing surface.  The V7II has a pump in the tranny.

Peter Y.

[HardAspie]

Another reason to have an oil pump in the transmission is to get away from roller bearings and to use plain bearings.  Probably cheaper and offering more bearing surface.  The V7II has a pump in the tranny.

Peter Y.

That is a huge part of the reason. Roller bearings actually offer greater resistance than do proper plain bearings.

[pyoungbl]

OK, campfire friends, the long awaited RX3 arrived today. 

This is after I peeled the cardboard off the top and one side.  Note the extra front wheel.  I paid for the upgrade to a 19" front so the standard '18 is now a spare.

from the other side after all the cardboard was gone.  You can see the spare rear tire I ordered.

After I installed the mirrors and put a license plate on the bike we went for a 60 mile ride.  This was my normal break-in routine, full throttle runs in gears 2-5 up to (in this case) 7K rpm.  The recommended break-in is to not exceed 7K for the first 500 miles.  FWIW, 7K in 6th is about 60 mph.  Redline is 9K and the ECU has a hard stop at 11K so what I am doing is hardly stressing this engine.

Bottom line:  the fit and finish are darn good.  The engine is very smooth for a thumper and it has about as much power as I expected from a 250....perfect for putting down dirt roads and able to keep up with traffic at 60 mph.  I suspect 75 or 80 will be WFO.  The fasteners are mostly high quality stainless steel 6mm, with a few black metal screws holding some of the plastic bits.  I had to take the tank off in order to fit an aftermarket shock.  Imagine my shock to find a QD that is actually a Quick Disconnect!  BTW the tank is steel, not plastic.  For '16 the forks are adjustable for compression (supposed to also change rebound), the OEM shock has some compression adjustment but it looks like a place where the factory might have cut some corners (just like my V7).  Preload is adjustable on the rear.  All in all the bike has exceeded my expectations.

When installing the new shock I had a chance to check the dogbone for grease.  Suffice to say that the Chinese must assemble based on the same guidance that Guzzi uses.  I slapped a liberal dose of grease on all the needle bearings.  Tomorrow I'll put enough miles on to do the 200 mile oil change, per the factory recommendation.  The bike only takes 1.7L of oil and it's going to be 15W40 Rotella-T full synthetic.  The importer assembles the bike, takes it on a 8-10 mile test ride, and then changes the oil.  I'll put 200 more miles and change again.  I think that's a bit much but, what the heck, I'll do it just to be safe.  After that it's every 2,000 miles or until my oil analysis says it's time.  More to follow.

Peter Y.

[oldbike54]

 Keep us apprised Peter , looks like serious fun 

 Dusty

[Motu]

This what I downsize to when riding my local back roads, it's always been a great bike in gravel. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Peter, that had to be a hoot to open up that box.  Good luck and have fun with it..

[Muzz]

Good stuff Peter.

I had a Honda 250 RS a few years back. A naked road bike with the black 250 trail motor in it. Great bike. I once did a 500km trip sitting at 130kmh for the whole way (where I could). It was over 7grand in the rpm stakes. Never missed a beat.