Turn signals still wont work!

[Thirtyaughtsix]

Brand new fuse box/fuses and main harness from Greg Bender, brand new flasher unit in the back and a brand new flashing light relay up front and my signals still refuse to even light up. Everything else works, horn, hi beam, low beam hi/low flash, the dash only sometimes which is worth noting now that I remember, etc. Can only sometimes get 12v to the signal wires, seems to depend on it's mood.

What the heck am I missing here? Do I not have something grounded properly somewhere maybe? I'm starting to feel it may be something small and dumb yet important like that based off my luck, or lack thereof rather >.< help would be appreciated!

[Idontwantapickle]

You mention "flashing light relay". Do you mean the relay for the headlight high beam flash function? There should not be a relay in the flasher circuit, only the flasher itself.
Hunter

[rodekyll]

what about the tail light?  Does it work?

There's a connector just forward of the rear fender that you might want to unplug/replug.  Check the wire route all the way back -- could be frayed.  And I'm wondering the "flashing light relay up front" means?

[Thirtyaughtsix]

what about the tail light?  Does it work?

There's a connector just forward of the rear fender that you might want to unplug/replug.  Check the wire route all the way back -- could be frayed.  And I'm wondering the "flashing light relay up front" means?

This little guy here is what I mean. The wiring diagram I've been referencing calls it a "flashing light relay" so that's what I typed, sorry for the confusion. None of my rear lights are hooked up as I don't have the fenders on just yet, haven't even thought to try as I've been tunnel-visioned it seems by these damn signals

[oldbike54]

 I seem to remember that my Jackal turn indicators won't work at all with the rear indicators disconnected .

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

Try laying the fender on and plugging in the rear harness.

I don't recognize that relay.  It has nothing to do with turn signals though.  Perhaps headlight/high beam?

[Thirtyaughtsix]

They replace the original, which is this:





Greg cites what I have in my first picture as a great replacement to the original on his website, so that's what I got.

Why is it that the signals wouldn't work without the brake+tail light being hooked up?

[oldbike54]

They replace the original, which is this:





Greg cites what I have in my first picture as a great replacement to the original on his website, so that's what I got.

Why is it that the signals wouldn't work without the brake+tail light being hooked up?

 Because you don't have the rear indicators hooked up , or at least you don't mention that , plus there is no ground to the rear .

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

The photo in comment #3 is of a standard headlight/starter/horn/auxlight/heated acc - type relay.  I don't think it's part of the flasher circuit -- flashers don't generally use relays.  Also, those wires don't look oem.  What year and model is this again?

 The photo above with the three-lug box is more likely a flasher unit.  Got a pic of yours?

[Thirtyaughtsix]

The photo in comment #3 is of a standard headlight/starter/horn/auxlight/heated acc - type relay.  I don't think it's part of the flasher circuit -- flashers don't generally use relays.  Also, those wires don't look oem.  What year and model is this again?

 The photo above with the three-lug box is more likely a flasher unit.  Got a pic of yours?

'75 850T. I have no photo of my particular unit but it looks 100% just like the one I posted above. And you're right, the only difference between Greg's harness and the original is right here. Try and bear with me on this, but he's added another brown ground wire and has kinda piggybacked the other brown wire along with the blue onto one spade. It's literally 2 females ends (1 brown wire that splits and flies off into space like above, and 1 brown+1 blue on the other) connected with a little brass piece between them, that then connects as one on to the male terminal, assuming I'm right. I've already emailed him about it and and am waiting to hear back.

I hope that make sense, I don't know the terminology and you can't see what I'm talking about in my picture. I'd think the replacement relay wouldn't be the issue though, the numbers and colors add up to the wiring diagram I've been using:

[rodekyll]

ok, then.  Greg knows his stuff.   

[acogoff]

     That is the relay for the "flash your headlights at the approaching moron" function. Make sure your signals are getting ground through the stalk itself  if they are the originals. I ran a large eyelet under the stalk nut itself to ground on the frame on the front two signals because of this problem, the rears never gave trouble.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

     That is the relay for the "flash your headlights at the approaching moron" function. Make sure your signals are getting ground through the stalk itself  if they are the originals. I ran a large eyelet under the stalk nut itself to ground on the frame on the front two signals because of this problem, the rears never gave trouble.

Will do in tandem with the brake+tail hooked up and hope it works. This grounding stuff is weird to me lol

[Muzz]

You haven't replaced the normal bulbs with LED's have you? They usually need a resistor to get the flasher to work unless it is one designed for an LED set-up.

[Old Jock]

As alluded to but not stated specifically, the relay pictured marked 17 is for the headlamp flash and is piggybacked at the 30/51 terminal to provide power to the horns and brake lights, it has nothing to do with the turn signals

From Carl Allison's diagram of an 850T USA these are not grounds on terminal 30/51 but positives or live feeds if you prefer

Turn signal flasher unit is powered from Fuse 2 the output from the flasher unit runs to the switch where the relevant right or left is selected. If you have neither left or right then its got to be either the fuse, flasher unit, the switch or any of the wiring in between

Do you have a Voltmeter and know how to use it (I am not trying to insult or be smart just asking the question)?

1) Check fuse 2
2) Check if the blue/black wire at the flasher unit is live (pull the terminal off the unit)
3 Go to the where the switch connect to the loom and pull the terminal block
4) On the loom side insert a wire to short pin 4 to pin 10 or 1, this bypasses the switch and should make the left indicators light (pin 10) or right (pin 1)

If step 4 works it appears to be the switch and you'll need to do some resistance checks on the switch

5) If nothing happens then pull the wires of the flasher unit and short them together and repeat step 4. This should make the turn signals light but not flash

If step 5 works and 4 did not then its probably the flasher unit

If step 4 & 5 don't work its probably wiring between the flasher unit and the switch, loose connection etc:

I'm using Carl Alison's 850T diagram as a guide so confirm that your wiring conforms to his diagram

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1974_850T_USA.gif

If the flasher unit is a replacement, either ensure its a 2 wire type OR if its a 3 wire that you have the 3rd wire tied to ground. Flasher units are cheap and personally I'd go for an electronic type

As also stated, if the unit is a direct replacement for the old ensure all the bulbs are of the same wattage as original and LEDs are not being used. If they are its probably easier and cheaper to put in an electronic flasher unit than start mucking around with resistors

Check with Gregg if unsure, he knows who I am, as I have a little trouble shooting guide and GBX strip article hosted by him on Guzzitech DK

Hope that's of some use

John

[Groover]

Are you going through the headlight interconnect (as original configuration) or are you bypassing somehow? Did the turn signals work before replacing the main harness? I'd check the connections at the headlight interconnect. If everything else is working, I'd say you have made good grounds.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

Ok so! Took some time off as I'm in no hurry to be riding around in the winter, but put in some work recently and made some baby steps.

Hooked up all 4 signals as well as the tail light and got that all grounded and everything. From there the 2 front signals would work when I held the stalk to metal for ground, flashed nice and bright and at their correct intervals much to my relief. The rear right worked when grounded but the rear left sparked when I tried to ground it. Swapped the 2 rear to see what would happen and again the same signal sparked when I tried to ground it.

I did crimp on brand new male bullet connectors on all 4 signals so I'll take a good look at that when I'm out there next, likely needs redone I'm guessing since I'm untrained at this yet. What I'd like to know though is, why would the signal spark instead of grounding and working?

It's also worth noting that whenever I would move the heap of currently un-routed cord that makes up my rear signals/brake/tail light that it seemed to effect whether things would work or not. Like when I first sat down and hooked the battery up, only my head light and dash would work; no horn, signals, rear or anything. Would poke around a bit, maybe play with my phone or something and come back and then everything works again when I turn the key (with the exception of the sparky signal I mentioned earlier of course). I'm thinking I at least need to clean up or replace some bullet and spade connectors along the way back there, not all of it is Greg Bender brand new, but aside from that is there anything I should know that would help with this?

Signals are original non-led, yes using Carl Alison diagram, yes i have access to and know how to use a multimeter, absolutely no idea if any of this worked prior to my time with the bike

[acogoff]

     The signal you say is sparking may be shorted inside so the power is going to ground instead of lighting the bulb before it grounds. Take it apart and have a look. These are dead simple and it should be obvious. May be a bare wire inside the stem.

[Old Jock]

As acogoff said if it's sparking its live and not got a load on it

If I am reading correctly you are telling us that you swapped the left and right rear indicator assemblies around and when you still tried to ground the left rear no matter which assembly was used the ground wire still sparked?

OR

Are you saying the same turn signal sparked i.e. when you swapped the indicator units over the fault moved with the indicator unit?

If its the latter it makes perfect sense and its as acogoff states.

If its the former I'm a bit stumped right now

Also sounds like you need to at least renew the wiring connectors (and possibly the wiring) to the rear of the bike. I'd certainly examine it very closely. Seen a few bikes where the wiring is not supported properly and has rubbed or come into contact with the rear wheel, that causes all sorts of mayhem

Also a bit surprised if its sparking that the fuse did not blow, usually it sparks then the fuse blows, well from my experience

John

[twhitaker]

I've made sparks before by using the wrong bulb? 

[canuck750]

I add a dedicated ground wire to each signal light, direct to the light bracket, through the stem and to the frame.

[Thirtyaughtsix]

Took the one iffy bulb fixture apart and the wire was crimped up just enough to cause the problem it seems, I smoothed it out and it hasn't fussed since. Redid the 3 female spades on the rear light and now everything lights up consistently no questions asked so far.

So far now the only thing not lighting up is the neutral indicator on the dash and the rear brake light doesn't actuate any brighter from the tail when I pull on the brand new rear pedal spring switch thingy. Other than the front brake not currently being hooked up, could anyone tell me why this would be?

[Tom H]

For the brake light. With the key turned on so you have power. Check to make sure you have power going into the brake light switch, then activate the switch and see if there is power out as well. If that passes, it could be as simple as a bad tail/brake bulb or a loose wire from the switch to the light. Test the bulb with you multi meter to see if one of the filaments are bad.

Good luck,
Tom

[Tom H]

One more thing, is this a disc or drum brake rear?

If it's a disc, I think the switch is in the brake line. Is there brake fluid in the lines already? If no fluid, the switch won't work I think.

Just a thought,
Tom