Wildguzzi.com
General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: surffly on May 07, 2017, 08:18:31 AM
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Just picked up a 1970 Ambassador. Had been restored at some point. I am told the rear main seal is leaking fairly badly, so I'll have to dig into that.
BUT had a question about the front forks. They seem to be fully compressed and not moving. I have never seen this happen before. I know I will have to probably take them all apart, but wanted to reach out to see if this was a common problem, or if anyone had any ideas about what is going on.
Thanks
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(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Guzzi_zpsviygvkws.jpg)
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Are there springs in the fork tubes? That don't look right.
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Unsure.
The forks seem "frozen"
I tried bouncing the forks and "unloading" them but the forks never slide.
My assumption would be if the springs were just not installed that the forks would still move.
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I would try putting the bike on the center stand & blocking the crankcase up to get the front wheel off the ground.
Then remove the front wheel. First try and pull down on the sliders. If they remain stuck remove the front fender and try turning the sliders on the fork tubes.
I have rebuilt the front forks on an old Ambassador I used to have but that was more than 30 years ago so I am a little hazy on the details.
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Not common, never seen it happen before. Broken springs? Rust inside the sliders? Anyone's guess, disassembly will "tell the tale".
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I've seen it happen with too heavy an oil.
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Guess I will add fork seals and the proper tools to the list of things to buy right off the bat.
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When you find out why it's stuck like that. Please let us know!!!
If it can extend, it's missing springs. If it's stuck?????
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Tom
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Go to Gregory Bender. They have details on rebuilding. By the way, that appears to be an old cop bike, nice find! Lee Davis
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It hasn't some highway patrol parts from what I am told.
I do not know much about guzzi. I hope to learn more.
Do not think it is actually a cop bike though.
More of what I call a "bitsa"
Bits of this and bits of that.
I have a bunch of old vintage bikes.
Traded a Norton Commando for this guzzi.
The Norton was not fitting in the type of riding I was doing, and I had other projects to wrap up.
The plan is to service the heck out of th guzzi and press it into daily service this season.
Want to have something the girl and I can take out.
She was not happy on the Norton.
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Perhaps she has bent tubes? Loosen the pinch bolts and axle and work it ? DonG
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From the dash, running boards and the passenger foot peg extensions, that was a police bike. It looks like it may have the police side stand as well. A civi could have had the parts added, but not likely.
If on the LH passenger peg loop, there is a scar on the top tube of the loop a few inches long, the frame is police. Someone could have ground it down perfectly smooth, so you can't be sure by that.
Nice bike!
Again, let us know what you find out with the forks.
Tom
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Funny thing was that the day after I picked up the Guzzi I jumped on a plane to Italy.
While I was there I found out that I was less then 50 miles from the Moto Guzzi factory and museum.
I was booked fairly solid with work, so did not have any free time, but will be sure to change that for the next trip.
Bike doesn't have a factory original restoration, but overall it seems like a quality job.
I am not much of a purist so it is not a huge deal to me.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/C3136B94-A358-4C7E-A68F-F48BEC90CF97_zpsgwredhmk.jpg)
Nothing ever actually gets done on the internet, so I need to talk less about the forks and spend an hour or so in the shop investigating.
Honestly think something is just rusted or frozen. From my understanding the bike was restored in the early/mid 2000s and saw little use since.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/AA04378D-3658-4B68-B55C-935377013AE3_zpsvdyqwikd.jpg)
Did see that the bike has had the alternator conversion. Unsure what kit was used, or what the changes from a service point of view.
I am told this is a nice addition on the bike?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/3D860F47-6801-4B30-A097-F9E788C245F8_zps2wneczvh.jpg)
Carbs have leaked and will need to be rebuilt. I have the kits for that.
Not a fan of the hose clamps or the pod filters. Might hunt down the original air box.
I come from Japanese four cylinder bikes mainly and they HATE pods.
What are the views on pods from the Guzzi community?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/B4F9B21C-D1E4-4CC0-8427-C39617CC90CB_zpsg0hg0rju.jpg)
Since I have to dig into the forks, I figured it was wise to pick up the proper tools.
Also ordered bushings and seals.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/6FF225BC-97AB-4E60-B273-A0E9C4B7F9A0_zpsndbkjxpj.jpg)
I was told by the PO that the rear main seal is leaking a fair bit. Have the seal and the driver.
Since the transmission needs to come out I figured I would order a seal kit for that and install it.
Are there any more "while you are there" jobs I should be thinking about?
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Also forgot an "introduction".
I have been messing with old bikes for a while.
Have worked on everything from mopeds to jets.
Was trained as an A&P, worked on yachts for a few years before going back to school.
Right now I live in the Albany NY area and work as an engineer in the automation industry.
My main passion has been Japanese bikes with a focus on performance.
1983 CB1100F I road for two seasons (now sold)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/cb1100f/F4E56ED6-A9F8-4246-9F3B-DF602DE778C1_zpshohkanxa.jpg)
Honda CB450. All original paint/chrome. Was a "barn find" that I just serviced and cleaned. Bike is now gone, but I do miss it.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/CB450/DSCN0994.jpg)
CB77 Yetman. Plan to build a VERY light race bike.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/CB77/A2C14D0A-EDE0-4B90-96CD-AF3558C834FF_zpsohqdo57o.jpg)
CBX, because some times you need the most complicated bike in the world.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/CBX/71bb421c.jpg)
Most of my friends do not understand why I love this bike so much.....
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/chopper/null_zps17b7b807.jpg)
1974 CL450 Scrambler.
Current daily ride.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/CL450/B299BFF4-2450-491B-BE97-F2DC242E0B75_zpsxgqmdqfw.jpg)
My never ending CB/CR750 project.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/cr750%20build/82a761d8101aad2aa300c0b1b550d398_zps60b2c67d.jpg)
Daily rider last year.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Norton/Norton%20850/IMG_0747_zpsqzcrt6yr.jpg)
Main project. Seeley framed CB750 Honda.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/seeley%20honda%20cb750/1F4A0256-BC1A-4EF7-B406-34800CDB001B_zpslxeswhlh.jpg)
Parts running bike.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/DSCN1445.jpg)
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Did see that the bike has had the alternator conversion. Unsure what kit was used, or what the changes from a service point of view.
I am told this is a nice addition on the bike?
Not a fan of the hose clamps or the pod filters. Might hunt down the original air box.
I come from Japanese four cylinder bikes mainly and they HATE pods.
What are the views on pods from the Guzzi community?
I was told by the PO that the rear main seal is leaking a fair bit. Have the seal and the driver.
Since the transmission needs to come out I figured I would order a seal kit for that and install it.
Are there any more "while you are there" jobs I should be thinking about?
That looks like a "Field/Nolan" alternator kit - very nice kit, really changes nothing from a service point of view.
Pod filters are easier to service than the original filter and getting the rubber boot to seal to the original air box can be problematic. I use Permatex Ultra Black RTV to "glue" the boot to the front plate of the filter box and that works very well. MG Cycle sells a new air box for almost less than you can buy a used one and have it painted/powdercoated.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=279&products_id=4470
Boot:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=279&products_id=230
Filter:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164_166&products_id=228
It may not be the crank seal - there are other places that can leak in the same area. In addition to the seal, I'd replace the rear main bearing flange gasket and breather pipe gasket (and use a light coating of Permatex 300 on the sealing surfaces) and seal the two lower bolts of the bearing flange and the oil return pipe banjo bolt with Hondabond 4.
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I will have to look into the bearing flange gasket, breather pipe and those bolts.
Do you have any links to a DIY that shows what you are talking about?
Just trying to get a handle on what those jobs are, what tools/parts I need and how to do the job properly.
Thanks for the help.
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Greg Bender has some good info. here:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/projects_roy_smith.html
You'll need a puller to remove the rear main bearing/flange (mine is self-made out of a section of 1/2" thick x 1.5" x 8"? long steel and three bolts), otherwise no "special" tools are needed.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=334
Parts/materials:
- breather pipe gasket: http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170&products_id=187
- bearing flange gasket: http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170&products_id=192
- 12 mm crush washers (2): http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34&products_id=186
- Permatex Super 300 or Permatex Aviation
- Hondabond 4 or equivalent.
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So you remove the bearing to change the gasket?
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So you remove the bearing to change the gasket?
Yes, the rear main bearing/flange must be removed to replace the gasket.
The other thing I forgot on my list is to apply JB Weld to the cam plug to make sure it's sealed. Leaks there aren't very common, but do happen.
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Is it wise to replace that bearing, or just re-install it?
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Is it wise to replace that bearing, or just re-install it?
I'd only replace it if it's badly scored, has embedded chrome flakes or some other issue. But, if it has any of those issues, then the crankshaft will too and then you have bigger problems. Normally, it's just remove, clean/prep, install the seal and reinstall.
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Started the rear main seal job last night.
Never worked on a Guzzi, but dare I say it....It feels very much like working on a Norton!
MUCH easier then the Japanese four cylinders!
Bodywork coming off, and digging in.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/a0f967f2e549046dc006a5d07487d4cd_zpsiuuiapb2.jpg)
At some point while shaking and working on the bike the front forks released.
It seems that for some reason there simply are no fork springs? ZERO idea why that would be.
I guess I will have to order some of those fancy Wirth progressive springs. They should suit the bike and the intended use well.
Also should match the Icon shocks for performance.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9457e14edb9e8805cfeb3097a0f81d51_zpse9oqkgx2.jpg)
Alternator.
Will have to look up what applications these are OEM for in case I ever need to replace it.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/1c49584a6e230132a8f71fa067508713_zpsp6ptkcfj.jpg)
I found that the distributor cap was VERY loose. The clips were in place, but the cap could still move a few degrees. I bent the clips to give them a little more holding power. That seemed to have fixed the issue. Are there replacements, or better yet an improvement on the market?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/afc9544e2250685551b12391eedabae8_zpslac5jhfa.jpg)
Looks like that during the restoration the harness and electrical was changed. Not a bad thing I guess.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/ab0ef35e7164fb79543b1a3463b537fd_zpstmvxbxsr.jpg)
There was a little voice inside my head telling me to just clean the carbs, fire the bike up and hope that the leak was not that big of a deal.
Lucky I did not as there have been a few small issues that need to be addressed before riding the bike.
We already talked about the absent fork springs. Another thing is that all of the hardware is covered in anti seize, but not actually tight! :boozing:
To have the current mechanic complain about "the last guy that touched this bike" is uber cliche though.
Other things like the fuel lines make me scratch my head too!
Do have one question. The bike currently has a "cross over" meaning each petcock feeds both carbs. Is this normal on a Guzzi?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/17f034c1f186db8ff7755c6412856743_zpsxdgymtvi.jpg)
It was getting late last night, and I got lazy so I did not pull the flywheel.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/75a26ca95c81589a42dfdeab19599647_zpsylw4wmqt.jpg)
Is this toast?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/3953627ace6db4ef4755d1a048955d98_zpsmkfz6wlw.jpg)
Looks like a mess, but should pay off.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/f117f1aa1ad6bcdd839b169b3a69537f_zps5114owpv.jpg)
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Nice bike!
I didn't see it mentioned in a quick scan of this thread, so please be aware that these bikes originally used chrome-lined cylinders, and this chrome is known to fail, particularly on bikes that sit for a while. When that happens, it bubbles and flakes off, sending chrome flakes throughout the engine (no oil filter). The results are predictable and expensive. So, before running it, make sure you confirm what cylinders you have and address it if they are chrome.
The fix for this condition is easy, and is not even that costly. Best way to go, in my opinion, would be new Gilardoni pistons and cylinders. These are usually readily available, made by on OEM, and come as a kit:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2127 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2127)
Hopefully, having been restored, the bike will already have Gilardonis in place, and you will see the name cast into the bottom of the cylinders. Iron liners are also common on older restorations, and can work fine. If you can't tell from looking at the cylinders, pull a spark plug, insert a pencil magnet, and touch the cylinder wall. Zero attraction = chrome, some attraction = Nikasil, strong attraction = iron liners.
There are a few who will say that this isn't absolutely necessary, and it is true that some get lucky with original cylinders. However, those with a lot of experience know that chrome will fail eventually, and when it does, costs and effort increase exponentially. Why take a chance?
Enjoy your new daily rider!
Cheers,
Shaun
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Alternator.
Will have to look up what applications these are OEM for in case I ever need to replace it.
I found that the distributor cap was VERY loose. The clips were in place, but the cap could still move a few degrees. I bent the clips to give them a little more holding power. That seemed to have fixed the issue. Are there replacements, or better yet an improvement on the market?
The bike currently has a "cross over" meaning each petcock feeds both carbs. Is this normal on a Guzzi?
Is this toast?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/3953627ace6db4ef4755d1a048955d98_zpsmkfz6wlw.jpg)
IIRC, the alternator was for a fork lift or tractor.
Just do as you've already done when necessary - bend the clips. Don't be tempted by the stainless steel ones sold on eBay - they're shiny, but do a worse job of holding the cap down tightly.
That doesn't look like an original fuel line cross, but Loops did come with one. Some folks eliminate it and use double-inlet banjos instead.
The ring gear looks pretty normal for it's age. Could be better, I've seen much worse.
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Nice bike!
I didn't see it mentioned in a quick scan of this thread, so please be aware that these bikes originally used chrome-lined cylinders, and this chrome is known to fail, particularly on bikes that sit for a while. When that happens, it bubbles and flakes off, sending chrome flakes throughout the engine (no oil filter). The results are predictable and expensive. So, before running it, make sure you confirm what cylinders you have and address it if they are chrome.
The fix for this condition is easy, and is not even that costly. Best way to go, in my opinion, would be new Gilardoni pistons and cylinders. These are usually readily available, made by on OEM, and come as a kit:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2127 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2127)
Hopefully, having been restored, the bike will already have Gilardonis in place, and you will see the name cast into the bottom of the cylinders. Iron liners are also common on older restorations, and can work fine. If you can't tell from looking at the cylinders, pull a spark plug, insert a pencil magnet, and touch the cylinder wall. Zero attraction = chrome, some attraction = Nikasil, strong attraction = iron liners.
There are a few who will say that this isn't absolutely necessary, and it is true that some get lucky with original cylinders. However, those with a lot of experience know that chrome will fail eventually, and when it does, costs and effort increase exponentially. Why take a chance?
Enjoy your new daily rider!
Cheers,
Shaun
I have read about the cylinders.
Funny, but there are car guys that RUN away from Nikasil liners!......
In the notes I have I see an invoice for two MG300s from MG Cycles.
Also see this in the jugs.
I think the bike already has the "upgraded" cylinders.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/A944EEEA-3D3E-4BF9-B3BA-5204343578A9_zps1gbdwcbz.jpg)
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:thumb:
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Shaping up to be a nice bike in the end.
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Never really had a bike that I could ride for any read distance.
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The alternator is from the Fields kit. Denso. I wanted a replacement/ spare. Very hard to find the Denso on fleabay and internet in general. There were a few aftermarket, not Denso, that work but not the way Fields meant it to work the idiot light seems to not work right but the bike charges. It is from a tractor and or forklift and or?????? I can give you the fleabay P/N if needed.
This setup is WAY better than the stock setup.
Also, :thumb: what Charlie wrote!
If your front end is missing the springs. Make sure you get the correct length and use the fork tube puller tool or a home made version. Bought a set of springs that were supposed to be the correct ones. They were too long as it turned out. Had to use the tool as well as a jack to get the legs in place. Rode it, it was like riding a rock in the front. So make sure you get the correct springs.
Tom
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Well the bike did come with a solo seat!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/F5D9B4D9-8F56-4F36-809D-5A950529890C_zpszvdikcnt.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/677E7185-5DE8-497C-8E5A-9902114A521A_zpsnwov7own.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/AF0E7683-FAF4-4579-B128-ED0DC4FA298A_zpsi7lzgmks.jpg)
I do need to find a "radio" rack to work with the solo seat.
And/Or a "beer rack" to work with the OEM seat
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Nothing like cafe and and carbs in the morning!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/bc8eb456024154f8da28b9019f4c7bf2_zpsvgsmoztb.jpg)
:coffee:
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Engine on the bench for better access.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/5E11AA01-60AB-4239-9BC9-CB5B25F3BFA4_zpswkprgdy4.jpg)
Pulled the rear main seal bearing housing thing.
SUPER easy with special tool.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/3283FFC2-FD18-4C77-BE4B-BC503554656A_zpspp12myab.jpg)
The offending oil. I actually think most of of was coming from the lower bolts not sealing properly.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/5F5BA242-0BDF-457C-B1F3-65DDF04C9736_zpsdiyltsxg.jpg)
Looks like someone already addressed the cam seal
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/4AB623DF-CCBF-48F7-A262-68D0FEF4C53D_zpsupbrj0tt.jpg)
Bike had fresh oil though.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/06DF3A11-3124-419E-9605-B7951EFDCD26_zps4azwebhs.jpg)
Kinda cool view.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/5D56783C-9E41-454D-8793-C01B237CCD38_zpssaumrlxy.jpg)
Honestly dont think this bike was ever run after restoration.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9055FDCD-6B26-447B-8E92-40B2A6EA7A9A_zpsb4povr4i.jpg)
Replaced the rear main seal(old one was hard as a rock), the bearing gasket, the two oil pipe crush washers and the other pipe gasket.
Figured it was a good idea "while I was there"
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/24908544-FA28-4AF9-A5FA-441FACDDBFA1_zpsjsfony6l.jpg)
Alternator bracket that Grandpaul was asking about.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9018CB27-B792-4B30-8F46-55DE80961842_zpslmfvnyqi.jpg)
This just looks REALLY bad.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/14872021-04A8-4288-B0CA-A3007E366C9C_zpsquge05i9.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/500201E0-2B89-4AED-A92C-048625E6B9B6_zps83fwrhfl.jpg)
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Great work! Looks like you got most items on the list, but FYI:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine_out__check_these_things.html (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine_out__check_these_things.html)
Note, you will want to route the metal oil line so it doesn't contact the alternator bracket. If not, it will eventually wear through from chafing due to vibration.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Alternator bracket that Grandpaul was asking about.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9018CB27-B792-4B30-8F46-55DE80961842_zpslmfvnyqi.jpg)
I'd recommend replacing the bolts holding the alternator bracket to the engine case with hardened studs with large o.d. washers and locking nuts. Bolts tend to break off from stress, studs don't.
In this view of the crankshaft:
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/5D56783C-9E41-454D-8793-C01B237CCD38_zpssaumrlxy.jpg)
it looks like the crank has been scraping against something. Or is it just a trick of the camera or something?
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Will have to correct that line, and those bolts.
You got me VERY worried about the crank now!
I did look inside the cases when I had the bearing out, and nothing jumped out at me then.
I think I would have noticed a scare that big. Must just be a optical illusion or something. There is not even something in that area for the crank to hit if my memory is correct.
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Well I have some information about the springs.
The winner was "no springs installed"!
Unsure why that was the case.
Since I had to take most of the bike apart for different services I figured I might as well rebuild the forks at this time.
As you saw I bought the correct tools and parts for the job.
Everything came apart fine, almost too easy.
Some of the seals on the bike have turned dry and hard from sitting for so long after restoration.
Also fork rebuilding is a cheap thing to check off the list.
Not only did I buy the fork seals, but I bought the lower bushings.
But then my troubles started!
First the OD of the lower bushings is to large to work with the fork legs.
They bind and just do not fit correctly.
It is almost like they were not finally machined.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/C6417E6E-B0FF-4258-9685-90A4760D7603_zpspssqjfaf.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/jaguarsurfer/media/Moto%20Guzzi/C6417E6E-B0FF-4258-9685-90A4760D7603_zpspssqjfaf.jpg.html)
After I found that out I decided to just put the old bushings back in and call it a day.
Nope, cant do that....
The tool broke!
Freaking thing has a 1/2 drive, would think it would take some torque.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/349D4EB9-01C1-435F-896D-5BFC0E76D095_zpsgfqzz27j.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/jaguarsurfer/media/Moto%20Guzzi/349D4EB9-01C1-435F-896D-5BFC0E76D095_zpsgfqzz27j.jpg.html)
So finally I spent the rest of the afternoon chewing up the lower forks trying to get them apart....but no dice.
I tossed everything in a box and went home.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/DA2FAC18-1C67-4D45-B734-D7054B86AA1A_zpsgggwwash.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/jaguarsurfer/media/Moto%20Guzzi/DA2FAC18-1C67-4D45-B734-D7054B86AA1A_zpsgggwwash.jpg.html)
Contacted MGCycles and they immediately told me to return the items I was having issues with.
They have been very helpful, and for that I am thrilled.
I did not post about this until after we had the ball rolling to fix the issue.
No reason to bash a company or flat out bitch about things. Stuff happens, and life goes on.
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I don't think it's a good idea to have the crank shaft resting horizontal with the rear main out. You are stressing the front bearing and other things. Tip it on its nose.
$0.02
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I have two sets of front fork springs , if you want a pair , pm me your address .
:boozing:
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Nice three day weekend!
Spent most of it attempting to learn how to wake board.
Even though that did NOT go well, I did enjoy being out on the lake.
Rained all day Monday, so spent some time putting the carbs back together.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/50698D96-1309-43A6-982E-E042488EFFB7_zpscdtif5ej.jpg)
I need to look in the/a book/manual to find out what jet goes where.
Normally the jets only go in one location, so I never really think about it.
I know I should instantly know what jet is what, but I am lazy.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/7B59F334-03E0-432B-8126-0BD387720E4D_zpsccc2q8ro.jpg)
They came out fairly good.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/7D187FD3-EAB7-47BC-A28C-41A6FAAA7F9B_zpsd5i0yezm.jpg)
My hope is one night this week I can wrap up the transmission seals.
After that the bike can start going back together.
Still need to order fork stuff though.
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I need to look in the/a book/manual to find out what jet goes where.
Normally the jets only go in one location, so I never really think about it.
I know I should instantly know what jet is what, but I am lazy.
The larger jet (145 stock) goes in the brass jet holder, the smaller one (45 stock) goes into the carb body directly.
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The larger jet (145 stock) goes in the brass jet holder, the smaller one (45 stock) goes into the carb body directly.
Thanks for the tip!
Saves me from looking it up!
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Had a few minutes last night to mess with the bike.
Engine and transmission are on a bench in the shop. At this point I do not trust a lot of the bike.
MANY nuts/bolts are hand tight and COVERED in anti seize paste that makes one heck of a mess.
Nothing is jumping out as wrong, damaged or broken though so that is good. It just seems that everything is more mocked up, then ready to go.
None of this is a huge deal, just adds time.
At the end of the day I am actually okay with it all. It will give me a change to "get to know" the bike and the systems.
Front engine cover had a goo seeping on the inside. Unsure if that was a sealant?
Are there oil seals behind those gears that I should change?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/49ae6da238d392a1af7aa6f78f2faa6f_zpssizztrhu.jpg)
Need to order a new alternator drive belt.
This one seems "new" but is dry and hard from sitting.
Cheap insurance.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/69606e6f7554c10209663f5ab9709e6e_zpsyutu2qyx.jpg)
My main focus was the transmission as I think I have all the parts in house to wrap it up.
It is also a smaller and more manageable evening job in my eyes.
One thing I have never seen before is ALL the leaking oil seals.
It seems that every seal on the bike is dry, hard and weeping. Everything looks installed correctly and I see no signs of damage.
Just leaking seals.
Here is the transmission.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/01dd413695fa152243a360ad9ba30a78_zpsogl2wg1g.jpg)
Even the O-Ring for the clutch activation!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/cc71f6aa758d443c7b04d92ecd02f1a8_zpshl494f3f.jpg)
I opened everything up for inspection.
All looks clean and proper.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/f741aa41a0eece5c4bf0003bc94253a5_zpslb3fksxz.jpg)
Did find this little Easter egg.
Is it a normal marking?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/d74e93ba354e9b17590c0bc97ed3dae9_zpsnecfxcja.jpg)
Do have an actual question though.
How does this gear come off?
I need to remove it to change another leaking oil seal.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/d5d8a55d6394b335547e808862ff258d_zpsgjo3yud7.jpg)
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Are there oil seals behind those gears that I should change?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/49ae6da238d392a1af7aa6f78f2faa6f_zpssizztrhu.jpg)
My main focus was the transmission as I think I have all the parts in house to wrap it up.
It is also a smaller and more manageable evening job in my eyes.
One thing I have never seen before is ALL the leaking oil seals.
It seems that every seal on the bike is dry, hard and weeping. Everything looks installed correctly and I see no signs of damage.
Just leaking seals.
Here is the transmission.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/01dd413695fa152243a360ad9ba30a78_zpsogl2wg1g.jpg)
Even the O-Ring for the clutch activation!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/cc71f6aa758d443c7b04d92ecd02f1a8_zpshl494f3f.jpg)
I opened everything up for inspection.
All looks clean and proper.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/f741aa41a0eece5c4bf0003bc94253a5_zpslb3fksxz.jpg)
Did find this little Easter egg.
Is it a normal marking?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/d74e93ba354e9b17590c0bc97ed3dae9_zpsnecfxcja.jpg)
Do have an actual question though.
How does this gear come off?
I need to remove it to change another leaking oil seal.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/d5d8a55d6394b335547e808862ff258d_zpsgjo3yud7.jpg)
There is no oil seal behind the timing gears to change. There is an o-ring behind the gear on the crankshaft though. Good idea to replace that while you're in there.
The nut on the output shaft is installed incorrectly - the beveled edge should face forward towards the star lock washer and bearing.
A leak from the throw-out bearing bore is common - the bore wears from use and the o-ring will no longer seal. Your best bet is to remove the bearings from the rear cover and send it to Patrick Hayes for him to install a stainless steel sleeve into the throw-out bore. Send the triangular selector cover too for him to cut an o-ring groove into. That will eliminate two possible leak areas.
The rear bearing on the output shaft shouldn't have come out of the rear cover like that. Most likely it's a loose fit due to incorrect installation in the past. Loctite Bearing Retainer will keep it in place, but you'll also likely need to put a shim between it and first gear in order for the transmission to shift correctly.
The plate that fits around the shift selector assembly (with the spring loaded pawls) is installed incorrectly - it should be flipped over. I can't see how the transmission ever shifted correctly with it like that. More information here:
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_transmission_-_4_speed_shifting_pawl_installation.html
Also, the components of the transmission need to be in a certain alignment during assembly or you'll end up with a two-speed transmission.
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_transmission_-_proper_shaft_alignment_for_a_4_speed_transmission.html
I've never seen markings like that - looks like it says "LAPD"?
There is a circlip that must be removed before the clutch hub can be pulled off. There is another behind it that will need to be removed in order to replace the seal.
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There is no oil seal behind the timing gears to change. There is an o-ring behind the gear on the crankshaft though. Good idea to replace that while you're in there.
The nut on the output shaft is installed incorrectly - the beveled edge should face forward towards the star lock washer and bearing.
A leak from the throw-out bearing bore is common - the bore wears from use and the o-ring will no longer seal. Your best bet is to remove the bearings from the rear cover and send it to Patrick Hayes for him to install a stainless steel sleeve into the throw-out bore. Send the triangular selector cover too for him to cut an o-ring groove into. That will eliminate two possible leak areas.
The rear bearing on the output shaft shouldn't have come out of the rear cover like that. Most likely it's a loose fit due to incorrect installation in the past. Loctite Bearing Retainer will keep it in place, but you'll also likely need to put a shim between it and first gear in order for the transmission to shift correctly.
The plate that fits around the shift selector assembly (with the spring loaded pawls) is installed incorrectly - it should be flipped over. I can't see how the transmission ever shifted correctly with it like that. More information here:
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_transmission_-_4_speed_shifting_pawl_installation.html
Also, the components of the transmission need to be in a certain alignment during assembly or you'll end up with a two-speed transmission.
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_transmission_-_proper_shaft_alignment_for_a_4_speed_transmission.html
I've never seen markings like that - looks like it says "LAPD"?
There is a circlip that must be removed before the clutch hub can be pulled off. There is another behind it that will need to be removed in order to replace the seal.
Thank you so much for the help.
Will look into what is involved in replacing that O-Ring. Like you said, I am already there.
There is an O-Ring in the bore of the throw out. There was a "trust bearing" type thing on the cap. That came apart in a million pieces.
I assume Patrick is a member here? Since the bike will not be on the road any time soon his modification doesnt sound like a bad idea.
Unsure what bearing you mean on the output shaft.
I honestly do not think this bike was ever ridden or even started after "restoration" so it is 100% possible the transmission would have never worked at all. I will read those links and review the drawings Vs what I have to see if I can figure out whats what.
Yeah the markings seem to say LAPD. Kind of funny. Unsure if that means anything at all.
I removed the outer circlip from the hub and can feel the one behind. I dont know how the hub itself is removed though. Is it simply a press fit and a puller is needed? Or another special tool to un-thread it?
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Thank you so much for the help.
Will look into what is involved in replacing that O-Ring. Like you said, I am already there.
There is an O-Ring in the bore of the throw out. There was a "trust bearing" type thing on the cap. That came apart in a million pieces.
I assume Patrick is a member here? Since the bike will not be on the road any time soon his modification doesnt sound like a bad idea.
Unsure what bearing you mean on the output shaft.
I honestly do not think this bike was ever ridden or even started after "restoration" so it is 100% possible the transmission would have never worked at all. I will read those links and review the drawings Vs what I have to see if I can figure out whats what.
Yeah the markings seem to say LAPD. Kind of funny. Unsure if that means anything at all.
I removed the outer circlip from the hub and can feel the one behind. I dont know how the hub itself is removed though. Is it simply a press fit and a puller is needed? Or another special tool to un-thread it?
The crankshaft gear should just pull straight off since you have everything forward of it removed. It might take a little force to remove it. Make sure you take note of the position of the paint timing marks and install it in the same position as it came off.
Contact Patrick at pehayes@comcast.net
The ball bearing on the output shaft in this photo, top right:
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/f741aa41a0eece5c4bf0003bc94253a5_zpslb3fksxz.jpg)
It should be an interference fit in the rear cover.
The clutch hub is slip fit normally, though some do fit tighter and require a puller to remove. There are no threads on the front of the input layshaft/clutch shaft.
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Any links or info for a DIY transmission rebuild?
I guess at this point it is wise to remove everything and install it properly.
What would the ball part price be to have someone do it? Cycle Garden?
But I guess it can not be that much worse then the Norton Commando gear box I rebuilt last season.
More time then anything else.
Should I be worried that the output shaft bearing is tighter to the shaft then the cover?
Any special tools I should order before digging deeper into the transmission.
Would like to cross the transmission off the list first, before moving onto the next "system"
Thanks again for the help.
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Sorry, I did not realize that you were also a restoration shop.
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Yes, Charlie does run a repair/restoration shop, and would be a great candidate if you would like to have the gearbox rebuilt by someone else. Could be an interesting exercise considering the way it has been "restored" already.
If you decide to do it yourself, you'll find some good information here:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical.htm
Cheers,
Shaun
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Any links or info for a DIY transmission rebuild?
I guess at this point it is wise to remove everything and install it properly.
What would the ball part price be to have someone do it? Cycle Garden?
But I guess it can not be that much worse then the Norton Commando gear box I rebuilt last season.
More time then anything else.
Should I be worried that the output shaft bearing is tighter to the shaft then the cover?
Any special tools I should order before digging deeper into the transmission.
Would like to cross the transmission off the list first, before moving onto the next "system"
Thanks again for the help.
There are links on This Old Tractor that will help, but not a step-by-step tutorial of a rebuild. Two days earlier and I could have maybe done one as I just finished repairs to a 4-speed. Next one isn't for a few weeks.
I can rebuild it for you, so can Harper's, Sean Fader and a few other folks. But, if you did a Norton transmission, then a Loop 4 speed should be easy. You just need to pay attention to how a few key areas go together. If you'd like to discuss cost with me, email c.d.mullendore@att.net.
I wouldn't be "worried" unless the rear cover is so worn that the bearing is a sloppy fit. Then you'll need a new rear cover. Otherwise, Loctite Bearing Retainer should do the job. From the factory that bearing was never completely bottomed out in it's bore or left to "float". Not a good idea except maybe on a fully straight-cut gear transmission. In a helical gear transmission, the output shaft could slide back and forth with throttle on/throttle off and that's why the bearing is loose. I drive the bearing completely into it's bore and then add shims between it and first gear. To determine how thick of a shim, you'll need to measure how far the bearing is recessed into the rear cover (measuring from the gasket surface to the inner race of the bearing) and how far the face of first gear is below the gasket surface of the case. This can be done with nothing more than a straight edge and feeler gauges. I find that the shim needed is usually in the .027" to .031" range.
I would recommend, while you're in there, having a look at the bushing for 4th gear to make sure it's not fractured. It's normally "top hat" shaped, sometimes the "brim" breaks off.
There are no special tools necessary to go deeper into the transmission.
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Had some time this weekend to dig into the bike.
At this point I feel like I have a bunch of open items on the list that are almost done.
Almost being the key word.
First order of business was to button up the engine.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9A750935-A288-43ED-916E-F125E16B572E_zpspkng0dfs.jpg)
I still want to pop the valve covers off to double check that timing is set correctly, the valves are adjusted and everything is installed right.
So far I have learned that with this bike at least, that time is time well spent.
Next on the list was the transmission.
All the guts removed and case cleaned.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/E0485F3A-4221-44B9-812C-12FC48092992_zps5wiyslbz.jpg)
Gear oil was fresh, I really do not think this bike was ever run!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/E6C5CC09-D483-44BB-BB49-7C195FEA9D99_zpsljulhrwc.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/089A0FC8-B7CC-4759-B67D-1175667FF080_zpsetdebn4t.jpg)
Some discoloring, but I do not think there is any problem
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/58A371C8-8A00-4CD1-A700-CFBC782329A3_zpsqkao1ww5.jpg)
But the day was not without some issues.
I was having a heck of a time pulling the clutch hub off it's shaft....
Used a fair bit of heat and penetrating oil.
But I reverted to a Neanderthal and hit it with a hammer.
Ended up cracking the shaft.
So now I need a replacement.
Anyone got one?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/11362FA7-EB52-434C-9BBA-9F2B886BABB1_zpsjzyurqse.jpg)
Not really excited about the setback, but it is my own fault.
Will be hunting for a replacement.
Or talk to me about a 5 speed swap.
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But I reverted to a Neanderthal and hit it with a hammer.
Ended up cracking the shaft.
So now I need a replacement.
Anyone got one?
Will be hunting for a replacement.
Or talk to me about a 5 speed swap.
Check with Curtis @ Harper's Moto Guzzi for a replacement shaft.
Swapping in a 5 speed opens up a new "can of worms". First off is finding one in good condition - you'll need one from an early Guzzi (Eldo, T, T3) in order to have a rear cover with the "hanger" for the shift shaft. From an Eldo would be optimum, but with some machining and a hole drilled in the battery tray, the T/T3 unit can be made to work. Or if you could find an Eldo rear cover, a 5 spd. of nearly any vintage can be used with that cover swapped on. Any 5 spd. will likely need some work internally as well, maybe more than your 4 speed.
Then there's the shift shaft (between the pedal and transmission) which is different length, and the linkage which is also different.
The biggest issue will be rear drive gearing. If your present gearing is 8/37 (8 teeth on the pinion and 37 on the ring gear), then you'd be okay. However, if it's 8/35, then it would need to be changed to 8/37 or something very close. Otherwise, you'll be slipping the clutch like mad to get moving from a standstill and 5th won't be usable until about 70 mph.
IMO, it's just not worth it.
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Saw this "cheap" so I jumped on it.
Think it is the correct part.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331286515508
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Part cam in last night.
Looks correct.
Will match it up with the one I broke this weekend to make sure.
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Matched the shafts up last night and everything looks good to go.
My plan is to lay out the whole transmission and inspect the gears, bearings, clips, bushings ect for damage, wear and improper installation.
Should be a fun and rather zen process.
Fork springs should be here tomorrow.
I bought those fancy progressive wound ones.
It is only money at the end of the day....
Transmission covers are at Mr Hayes' shop being modified.
Bike is slowly plugging away.
Anyone going to be at MidO next weekend?
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Parts back from Mt Hayes.
Crazy fast turn around time.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/5C2B6F72-DA9D-4ECF-A06B-5ED44F9CE524_zpsqvujszwd.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/8589A3FB-B400-42E4-AE50-294C73E2FC91_zpsc8bew3wr.jpg)
I will need to get some new throw out bearing parts.
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Great weekend out at Mid Ohio.
Always fun to meet up with members, drink beer, wonder the swap meet and generally have a good time.
Rained like all hell Friday (would not be MidO without some rain), but did manage to buy a few needed parts.
Last two years have been kind of dry for me. I am chalking it up to the fact that I have a fairly well stocked garage and do not have a whole lot of "needs".
Or maybe I am growing as a person and not constantly buying any old junk?
About 5 minutes after getting to the swap meet I found an airbox for the Guzzi!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/9C6E4B6E-1638-4ED6-B892-C1A988F22A5C_zpsx0whwzjm.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/0758A37E-6C63-4EF3-9089-8D785BD1CC9D_zpsosuc0rri.jpg)
Will need to be blasted, painted/coated and the rubbers replaced, but I am happy.
$13!
How can you beat that?
While I LOVE to mock the current pods on the bike, the fact is that they work and there is no mechanical reason to replace them.
I want to go back to the stock airbox purely for aesthetics.
I prefer the look of the box. I like that it hides the electrical and the battery. I also think that it looks more "finished" if that makes any sense.
There was not a whole lot of Guzzi stuff or bikes at the event.
I did see this parked at a "dealer's" booth in the meet.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/416BF445-AFEA-4FFA-9101-CEFB7C9D23F8_zpsdzszpoo4.jpg)
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Looks good all of it. Continue the updates on the board :azn: Even if it looks like nobody is following, we are :grin: :popcorn:
-Ulrik
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About 5 minutes after getting to the swap meet I found an airbox for the Guzzi!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/9C6E4B6E-1638-4ED6-B892-C1A988F22A5C_zpsx0whwzjm.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/0758A37E-6C63-4EF3-9089-8D785BD1CC9D_zpsosuc0rri.jpg)
Will need to be blasted, painted/coated and the rubbers replaced, but I am happy.
$13!
How can you beat that?
While I LOVE to mock the current pods on the bike, the fact is that they work and there is no mechanical reason to replace them.
I want to go back to the stock airbox purely for aesthetics.
I prefer the look of the box. I like that it hides the electrical and the battery. I also think that it looks more "finished" if that makes any sense.
MG Cycle offers new airboxes for about the cost of buying and rehabbing an original.
Pay close attention to the seal between the rubber boot and the airbox cover plate during installation. They never seal very well without a little help, poor seal = dirt into the engine. I apply a bead of Permatex Ultra Black RTV to the boot to make sure it seals.
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I have a buddy that does small black coatings for me fairly cheap, so I am sure I will still come out ahead on the air box.
Been REALLY lacking motivation on this, and other projects lately.
Have been selling off A LOT of parts, almost to the point of listing some of the projects in the back of the garage.
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keep it coming....Brings back memories....... :popcorn:
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Been super busy with work, wedding planing, and SCUBA diving.
All bike stuff has been on the back burner. Actually rather bummed about that.
Ended up with Sunday free, so worked on the Guzzi a bit.
Also helped install long tube headers on my friend's TrailBlazer SS.
If one of your friends ask you to help with that job......RUN AWAY.
Fork springs and new seals.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9B94EE23-8159-4AA9-A6B8-DB38B8C63B36_zpsn5ug1kd7.jpg)
I really LOVE they way that you change the seals on this bike. Very simple.
While the tires are new, I might need to change them anyway due to dates.
They are also hard and cracking.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/0CED2C43-C0D0-4919-ACD8-C586BE9E43D1_zps1uasbi5r.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/7C83F58B-8769-4BF0-B3FC-958759F6C7B3_zps8coukfob.jpg)
Started to put everything back into the transmission, but decided that this was a job best saved for a quite evening.
I want to sit with the diagrams and manuals.
Only want to due this job once.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/1682B136-2C1D-4C7C-BDF8-07720C96580C_zpscatsk7s5.jpg)
Also need to figure out how to move this junk from one shaft to the other.
Anyone know how this works?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/DC09E7A8-5045-49C2-89C1-993F7330A876_zps9fgar3wo.jpg)
Took one of the valve covers off.
Wouldn't you know.....the valves are not adjusted correctly....
SUPER tight. Lucky this is an easy job.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/923588E3-CCE2-4459-8964-260F2B02F4CC_zps1rpxmoea.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/6837118A-8BC5-42F4-A9F3-22A438FF5A60_zpshfjqvg2r.jpg)
Did get the motor back into the frame, so that was a good thing.
Thrilled that the front end is back on, and sitting properly.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/AF81CDE1-13D8-4140-BC38-941F08DD5C62_zpswwqjatwm.jpg)
Anyone have some recommendations on fork fluid?
Even got done with enough time to go home, shower and wait for GoT!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/41BB6241-385E-4A9A-B4FB-B9A5932D1583_zpsfd7l5d3c.jpg)
Feels great to be crossing some stuff off the list.
Still need to order some parts for the rear drive rebuild.
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Also need to figure out how to move this junk from one shaft to the other.
Anyone know how this works?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/DC09E7A8-5045-49C2-89C1-993F7330A876_zps9fgar3wo.jpg)
Anyone have some recommendations on fork fluid?
I've found it easiest to do the job with a hydraulic press. Piece of pipe with suitable i.d. for the beveled retainer, holes cut in the side so you access the keepers. Compress the spring, remove keepers. Kind of like removing valve springs.
I use 8 oz. of 30w fork oil, usually Bel-Ray or PJ1. With the factory spec'ed 5.4 oz., you end up with absolutely no damping for part of the travel, with 8 oz. you have damping (as much of it as you'll ever have anyway) for full travel.
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THANKS!
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Called in sick Tuesday.
Was WAY to nice out to be stuck in a office.
Went up to Blue Mountain Lake to SCUBA dive.
I wanted to get my Altitude Certification. Also almost done with my Divemaster for PADI.
Lake was really clear. Had an interesting coal train car in about 30 feet of water to explore.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/E27705C8-2475-492D-8BA0-FDBABB16FC08_zpsjumekywa.jpg)
The parts boxes are starting to get fairly small, so that is a good thing.
-Air cleaner
-Carb boot
-Random transmission O-Rings
-Shifter fork spring thing
-Throw out bearing bearing thing.
-Seal/gasket kit for rear end
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/4FFD896E-7724-488F-9309-BC5FB894D085_zpsavgmf7cy.jpg)
Need to drop that airbox off at my coater for some gloss black.
Might have a few other random parts for the bike done at the same time.
The mounts for the floor boards are chipped.
I hope this weekend I can tackle the transmission and get that re installed into the bike.
After that I will go trough the rear drive.
Fingers crossed the gears are shimmed and set correctly as I really would rather not have to deal with that.
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Great thread, brings back lots of memories of going into my first Guzzi - thanks for posting. LAPD .... odd that somebody would mark it like that. Like he was worried about getting the transmission he owed the cops mixed up with the other one.
I met a California Highway Patrol officer who spent a few years on a Guzzi - he loved my Eldo, and we watched his partner chew out my riding buddy while we traded Guzzi tales.
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Was looking at the Harper's solo seat that I have for the bike and it was suggested that I look into the LAPD style rack they make.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/79A9BBB5-D7D5-4975-886F-1242B9F6C064_zpskfpnzoxy.gif)
Seems to fit the bill.
Tucks in night and tight, but is a usable size.
Neat part is they sell a pillion seat pad, so this could be converted to a dual seat....but keep the comfy tractor seat!
Just one problem.....
My rear frame does not seem to have the three needed tabs?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/6F077877-569D-419C-AF6E-4C53A2E65CBB_zps8upbbke7.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/A6B6646F-E7B2-41E9-9085-EEEFC71D366B_zpsiv0xwn06.jpg)
Maybe I am missing something?
Did not all the bikes come with these mounting tabs?
I do not actually see evidence that they were removed, but I did not look that hard.
Kinda bummed as I really like that rack seat combo.
Wonder what my options are now?
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Kind of looks like the tabs should be on the frame.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/frame-center-stand-side-stand-footrests-rear-fender_zpseoh4g13l.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/frame-safety-bars-saddlebags-flasher-brackets-windshield-seat_zpsrsirsikx.jpg)
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Someone has "detabbed" your frame. :sad:
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What did those tabs normally do?
Seems like the seat still attaches just fine.
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They were for the police radio rack, no real use on "civilian" Loops, other than... mounting a rack. :wink:
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Guess I will have to figure out a different option for a rack now....
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I used this rack from MG Cycle.....
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=316&products_id=3299 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=316&products_id=3299)
You can buy the passenger seat that sits on top of it. Although I did have the "tabs" to bolt it on..... it also has a front part that rest on the frame. Perhaps it could be drilled and fastened to the frame somehow.......just a thought.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/b4CXc5/mg_rack.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b4CXc5)
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Guess I will have to figure out a different option for a rack now....
I've seen Loops fitted with Harley racks, but then you have to drill the fender.
If you know of a good welder/fabricator in your area, it wouldn't be too difficult to make one that mounted to the top shock studs and the tabs on the underside of the frame where the dual-seat fastens.
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Issue is the fame is powder coated already....
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Issue is the fame is powder coated already....
That's why I suggested making one that bolts on at the shock studs and dual-seat tabs. No welding or anything else to the frame.
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I see what you are saying now.
Will have to look into it.
At this point I should focus more on getting it ridding then how I can haul beer home.
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Getting closer all the time!
Tom
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Project is still alive, just moving slowly.
Time has been taken up with wedding planing, generally lack of motorcycle motivation, and some traveling.
Two weeks ago I was down in Aruba for some R&R.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/97EAB556-A95D-4F3B-9CA0-786770EBDB8B_zpseju3in8u.jpg)
I am not one to go fishing often....
But when I do.....
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/E50DA7AB-F796-46F7-A1D4-7D085FE10572_zpsa1jehsmk.jpg)
They were tasty too!
Then the world almost ended.
I blame Obama for this.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/75F774B3-626A-40C8-8385-14411BB767BF_zps2ryjdkdf.jpg)
Some of the wedding gifts are rather cool!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/7AF804E6-412E-4457-9C2E-5E02163E4C43_zpstcomf7n6.jpg)
Always wanted one of these.
But now onto the Guzzi.
Like the rest of the bike, the seals in the rear were dry, hard and needed to be changed.
Sucks because they looked brand new.
Oil was clean too.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/B32147BC-80E0-4FCD-9EB7-0388F1BB238C_zpsp7rrqizq.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/C78A5FE6-AD34-4882-8F40-F2A827D5A0D7_zpsbzml2kaz.jpg)
Did not know the best way to remove the bearing race and shim to change this seal.
Had to wait to read the manual, and consult with some experts.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/648A92B4-184A-44DA-9733-59D234922CA8_zpstr5yhrj6.jpg)
Everything should be able to go back together just fine.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/EABE3995-E559-47CC-AFA4-853A50A5C490_zpsgidqkgtc.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/045C9478-523D-4D0B-9DEA-12C153B33EB9_zpstsd4fmwi.jpg)
One more thing almost crossed off the list.
I really need to get off my butt and swap over that transmission shaft I damaged.
Once that is done the gear box can go back together and into the frame.
Then it is just basically hooking the harness up and trying to run the bike for the first time.
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Regarding the rear rack mountings - have you seen Norton Commando passenger grabrail 'p' clamps?
I think that they could be used as a substitute for the original welded tags on the frame.
If you look at Andover Norton's website, they have parts diagrams.
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Those might actually work.
Will have to measure the diameter of the frame and see what size clamps they have.
I know there are some aftermarket "three piece chrome" clamps too.
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Had some time to wrench.
Felt good to be back in the garage and get a few things done.
And by done I mean 95% done....but not 100% because every single job has some "issue"
FIRST:
Used a press and swapped the parts from the broken main shaft, to the new replacement one.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/0CA35C10-BC4A-48A7-A79A-5403370714E0_zpsyxwhvf5p.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/65F4F6EB-4259-41FD-8B91-E269EEC70B63_zpsf0t3jjuj.jpg)
Easy peacy.
SECOND:
Finally put the oil in the forks, so now the forks are 100% done.
Was able to install the dash and wire that all back up.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/D4977F1B-B246-4248-A12C-693BD8A36891_zpsbsp4zbi2.jpg)
THIRD:
A little heat and that bearing race popped right out.
Thanks for that tip!
New seal, shim and everything went together without a hiccup.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/D4953969-616F-4D83-90D0-44BA877DDA30_zpslaxayxmr.jpg)
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/78C4EF64-F8B5-4871-BAE2-BB6D75D0B546_zpsc5dzdihv.jpg)
That was up until I went to install the gears.....
The gaskets I have a wrong. Unsure if they are cut wrong? Or if there are two different options?
Any help here would be wonderful.
I have everything cleaned and ready to go back together....but cant because of these gaskets.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/F78822B4-4DB0-45EF-85EA-EBD5AEBF2F8E_zpso1og4bn6.jpg)
Less then trilled.
FOURTH:
Slowly putting the gearbox back together.
I need to sit quietly. That will give me the best chance of doing it correct the first tim.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/BF5019B8-129F-432E-8FB2-6E783E907E32_zpszvl9zr1h.jpg)
Does this "bend" in this direction, or the other way?
Does it matter?
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That was up until I went to install the gears.....
The gaskets I have a wrong. Unsure if they are cut wrong? Or if there are two different options?
Any help here would be wonderful.
I have everything cleaned and ready to go back together....but cant because of these gaskets.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/F78822B4-4DB0-45EF-85EA-EBD5AEBF2F8E_zpso1og4bn6.jpg)
Less then trilled.
FOURTH:
Slowly putting the gearbox back together.
I need to sit quietly. That will give me the best chance of doing it correct the first tim.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/BF5019B8-129F-432E-8FB2-6E783E907E32_zpszvl9zr1h.jpg)
Does this "bend" in this direction, or the other way?
Does it matter?
Your gaskets are fine, they've just shrunk a bit. Try using a spray bottle to mist water onto them - not too much, just enough to "rehydrate" them. You should be able to (carefully) slip them onto the flange while they're damp. I use Permatex 300 along with the gaskets.
Yes, the bend goes that direction.
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shrunk?
They are two months old!
Never had a gasket change that much, but will try the hydration trick you talk about.
Maybe I will use Gatorade.....it has electrolytes.....pl ants want it.
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shrunk?
They are two months old!
Never had a gasket change that much, but will try the hydration trick you talk about.
Maybe I will use Gatorade.....it has electrolytes.....pl ants want it.
You may have had them for two months, but they were likely made years ago and have been on a shelf somewhere since. Same with the gasket for the rear cover of the transmission. I always have to dampen those gaskets to get them to fit.
You can use a damp sponge or dampened paper towels to "rehydrate" them also.
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This is the kit I bought.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=284&products_id=4605
So you dont think I need to buy these?
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_176&products_id=706
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This is the kit I bought.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=284&products_id=4605
So you dont think I need to buy these?
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_176&products_id=706
No, just moisten the ones you have. The lower ones are for disc brake bikes.
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(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/B52770AC-AECA-4FE2-A066-FF4477535156_zpsaa5jrxuy.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/jaguarsurfer/media/B52770AC-AECA-4FE2-A066-FF4477535156_zpsaa5jrxuy.jpg.html)
What is it and where does it go?
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It's the retainer for the outer race of the needle bearing in the older rear drives. Numbers 62 & 63 in this illustration:
(http://www.stein-dinse.biz/bilder/auto/breite_800/140e0917.jpg)
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Still has not resulted in a CL add!
I know some of you are thinking that is how this story ends......
Well at the end of September I got married!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/A8879598-DC50-46B2-9B81-1E1C4AAD1606_zpsw5lzas3q.jpg)
Kinda of crazy!
That great progress that I made on the gear box?
Yeah that all had to come back apart because I did something wrong the first time.
Oh well, live and learn.
At least the mistake was caught before the trans was back in the bike.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/8A049CAB-C5C1-4266-9351-24CF47EFB177_zpsgavwpk99.jpg)
Can see in the background that the later flange sized gaskets came in, so the rear is all read to install into the bike.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/CAEEC9ED-77F9-4E58-BC6A-7A362B66F4D1_zps8nlrlu43.jpg)
Stuff going back together!
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/04D6BABB-DAFB-42DA-95A6-590B1307ADCF_zpstjdw8csx.jpg)
Almost looks like a motorcycle again.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/9B929452-F1E8-47E6-9E23-0F95F6BDD880_zpsktionwku.jpg)
But then I had to stop.
Seems that the guy that "restored" the bike before I got it neglected to use all the needed parts to install the swing arm.
Oh well....off to ebay.....
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/EA3EBE0A-C39B-48BA-A98D-7B1BCA03E172_zpssgtvc1nz.jpg)
Urg
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/20A4B0AC-5D09-47E4-A2BC-42FC03EFA467_zps4yvexhvz.jpg)
Much better
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:thumb:
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Anyone have a set of "Air Funnels" to connect the carbs to the air box boot?
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Really getting into this whole Italian motorcycle thing.
Since I am almost done with this one, it is time to focus on the next?
RIGHT?
Well I picked up some "art" for the apartment.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/CC81AD3D-C36A-4534-BA20-BE0AA7AF066B_zpsisakqwmc.png)
Kinda feeling a YB something Bimota should be added to the mix for next season.
Last month I spent some time rebuilding yet another set of Mikuni Smoothbores.
Gotta keep the funds going so this guzzi can get finished.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/B9A41301-A7D1-4B44-AEE4-D4A5FFDD0C19_zpsdz8ozqst.jpg)
Found a cheap set of NOS singarm bearing spacer things on eBay.
SO now the swing arm is back in the bike.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/6ADD5822-6483-454C-A963-10C48B673A13_zpslua1xkim.jpg)
Need to research how all that jazz is adjusted. The arm mounts differently then any other bike I have owned.
Am I over thinking this?
Kinda cool to see the side boxes and other little parts start to go back onto the bike.
Probably will have to replace the tires.
Any one have some recommendations?
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/jaguarsurfer/Moto%20Guzzi/7DB2BD67-B2DF-45D0-BD79-54AD13666FE4_zpsvka4dkb9.jpg)
Almost looks like a motorcycle!
Need to get some fluids into it so that one day soon I can attempt to fire it up.
How much, and what weight dino juice do you guys think will do the ticket in the motor-trans-rear?
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Looking very good Surffly, I'm looking forward to seeing it completed :grin: And I can't wait to go back to DK and get mine finished up.
Don't have any recommendations on the oil for the drive unit, but I can hardly think that it is much different than the slightly newer bikes. Maybe Charlie can give an input. I'm interested too as I will have the same question later.
:popcorn:
-Ulrik
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Need to research how all that jazz is adjusted. The arm mounts differently then any other bike I have owned.
Am I over thinking this?
Kinda cool to see the side boxes and other little parts start to go back onto the bike.
Probably will have to replace the tires.
Any one have some recommendations?
Need to get some fluids into it so that one day soon I can attempt to fire it up.
How much, and what weight dino juice do you guys think will do the ticket in the motor-trans-rear?
Just screw the pins in so that the preload on the bearing isn't too tight (or too loose) and they stick out from the frame the same amount on each side.
I had been using Bridgestone S11s, but now prefer Shinko 230 Tour Masters. Last ~8k on the rear, probably 10 on the front. Excellent traction wet or dry. Only $135 a pair from American Motorcycle Tire.
3 qts. (and no more) Shell Rotella T4 15w40 is my choice for engine oil, 750 cc CRC Sta-Lube GL-4 Gear oil 85w90 in the transmission and 180 cc Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80w90 in the rear drive.
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Thanks for the TIPS!
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For the transmission. GL-4 is what I use, GL-5 may or may not have an issue with the 4 speed transmissions depending on who you ask.
Napa carries the GL-4, but you may have to have it ordered.
ALSO wanted to say...Looking Good!! :thumb:
Tom
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For the transmission. GL-4 is what I use, GL-5 may or may not have an issue with the 4 speed transmissions depending on who you ask.
Napa carries the GL-4, but you may have to have it ordered.
ALSO wanted to say...Looking Good!! :thumb:
Tom
NAPA is where I buy the CRC Sta-Lube GL-4 Gear Oil. GL-5 is fine as long as it specifically states "safe for yellow metals".
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Here's a good resource for all of the maintenance items on these bikes.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_quick_maintenance_data.html (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_quick_maintenance_data.html)
Comes in handy at fluid change time.
Tim
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So, did you finally fire it up and ride it?
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Thanks for the link. After reading the thread. I wanted to know what happened.