Author Topic: Odd Guzzi-looking bike  (Read 3345 times)

Offline szasz

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Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« on: July 24, 2017, 05:36:25 AM »
Came across this at motorcycle museum in Japan.
Very Moto Guzzi like I thought...




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pete roper

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2017, 06:19:09 AM »
Came across this at motorcycle museum in Japan.
Very Moto Guzzi like I thought...




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It's a Marusho/Lilac Nick. A copy of the Victoria Bergameister from Germany. I owned three of them, along with a very rare single cylinder model, one of only two known survivors in the world, for a while.

They were in fact horrible. Horrible in many ways that make horrible too good a description. There is a reason why we still have Hondas but we don't have Lilacs!

Pete

Offline szasz

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 07:23:21 AM »
Thanks Pete,,, now I know why I've never seen one on the road. ;-)
Nick
2015 Guzzi V7II Stone
2009 Griso 8v (sold)
2012 Honda CT110 (Hunter Cub)
1973 Honda Monkey 50cc

Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2017, 07:39:48 AM »
 I very nearly bought a new Marushu 500 back in sixty five. Bought a Harley Panhead instead.
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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2017, 07:39:48 AM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2017, 11:51:35 AM »
I think you're just bragging that you got to go to Japan and we didn't.   :tongue:

Offline garbln

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 04:28:31 PM »
I have a friend that had 3 or four at one time.  He would joke that he had the worlds largest collection of them, and nobody cared.  A truly poor quality bike.

Offline twhitaker

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 05:27:46 PM »
That generator on the front is also the starter.
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Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 01:33:56 AM »
I considered buying a new Lilac 500 in soCal in the mid 60's for $995 at a Triumph/Yamaha dealer. Heard they were a Jap. copy of a 500 BMW in their parts.  Guess it's a good thing I didn't go down that road.  :huh:  Stuck to Yamaha 2 stroke twins at the time. 

Offline Mike Harper

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 01:03:54 PM »
 I probably have more history with the Lilac/Marusho Marque than anyone I have known or heard of.

I went to Japan in 1958 courtesy of the US Navy for a 30 month all expense paid vacation. My lifestyle was already cast as a Motorcycle fanatic by that time.  Motorcycles at that time in Japan were mainly all copies of some other brand and usually not as good as the ones copied. Mostly due to seriously lacking metallurgical knowledge there at that time. The designs were good but the metals were just was not available for manufacturing prior to 1955. By 1957 the metallurgy was starting to come around to some reasonable manufacturing techniques.

My first motorcycle in Japan was a 1957 Honda 350cc single cylinder Dream The 250 versions were known as SA models. I cant or did not ever remember the 350 model designation. It was a really tough bike because it stood up to everything I dished out. In short " I beat the snot out of that poor bike".

I had a Japanese friend that ran a laundry in Tsuruma Japan and he had a 250 LS18 Lilac that he used to ride and also pickup and deliver laundry on.  He had the biggest canvas bag on the back of that bike I have ever seen to this day.  It was a beautiful bike and ran like a watch. He introduced me to the dealer/distributor of Lilac at that time who had a shop in the city of Kawasaki Japan. NO B%*&%  ( Check the map it is on the south side of Tokyo).

I was racing a lot at that time and after a short period the Lilac Dealer asked me to ride his race bike at the big motocross at Fujinomiya in 1959 if my memory is still correct on the year.  If anyone saw the article on me in Classic Bike Magazine a couple of years ago there was a picture of me on the Lilac racer in that article.

That picture was taken shortly before the unfortunate demise of that machine, sorry to say.
The bike was Geared too high and was running a total loss 6 volt ignition which was insufficient to even light a cigarette much less power a race bike.  I made 3 laps on a huge course layed out near the base of Mount Fujiyama.

Because of the gearing it had to be run in a lower than normal gear in order to develop power to keep going and it never had a decent chance to prove itself. If it was going to be raced then it should have been built with numerous gearing choices and much better quality metals.

Since that time I have had numerous Lilac and Marusho motorcycles and I still have a nice one that I fully intend to finish putting back into service. 
Incidentally the bikes were both made by the parent company but there were no flat twin 500 cc Lilacs they were all Marusho bikes. The Lilac and the Marusho bikes were pretty decent bikes when properly used for their intended purpose.
They were designed as transportation on the streets of Japan during the 1950's and 1960's where the maximum national speed limit at the time was 36 mph.

They were never up to being racers. High RPM was sudden death for them


I just don't think the brand gets a fair shake when it comes to its history.

Maybe those bikes back in Japan almost 60 yrs ago is what I found interesting in the Moto Guzzi line that I have liked for the last 47 yrs.

 Maybe my wife is right and I am a nutcase.
 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu


« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 01:08:43 PM by Mike Harper »

Offline Steph

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 01:23:13 PM »
I probably have more history with the Lilac/Marusho Marque than anyone I have known or heard of.

I went to Japan in 1958 courtesy of the US Navy for a 30 month all expense paid vacation. My lifestyle was already cast as a Motorcycle fanatic by that time.  Motorcycles at that time in Japan were mainly all copies of some other brand and usually not as good as the ones copied. Mostly due to seriously lacking metallurgical knowledge there at that time. The designs were good but the metals were just was not available for manufacturing prior to 1955. By 1957 the metallurgy was starting to come around to some reasonable manufacturing techniques.

My first motorcycle in Japan was a 1957 Honda 350cc single cylinder Dream The 250 versions were known as SA models. I cant or did not ever remember the 350 model designation. It was a really tough bike because it stood up to everything I dished out. In short " I beat the snot out of that poor bike".

I had a Japanese friend that ran a laundry in Tsuruma Japan and he had a 250 LS18 Lilac that he used to ride and also pickup and deliver laundry on.  He had the biggest canvas bag on the back of that bike I have ever seen to this day.  It was a beautiful bike and ran like a watch. He introduced me to the dealer/distributor of Lilac at that time who had a shop in the city of Kawasaki Japan. NO B%*&%  ( Check the map it is on the south side of Tokyo).

I was racing a lot at that time and after a short period the Lilac Dealer asked me to ride his race bike at the big motocross at Fujinomiya in 1959 if my memory is still correct on the year.  If anyone saw the article on me in Classic Bike Magazine a couple of years ago there was a picture of me on the Lilac racer in that article.

That picture was taken shortly before the unfortunate demise of that machine, sorry to say.
The bike was Geared too high and was running a total loss 6 volt ignition which was insufficient to even light a cigarette much less power a race bike.  I made 3 laps on a huge course layed out near the base of Mount Fujiyama.

Because of the gearing it had to be run in a lower than normal gear in order to develop power to keep going and it never had a decent chance to prove itself. If it was going to be raced then it should have been built with numerous gearing choices and much better quality metals.

Since that time I have had numerous Lilac and Marusho motorcycles and I still have a nice one that I fully intend to finish putting back into service. 
Incidentally the bikes were both made by the parent company but there were no flat twin 500 cc Lilacs they were all Marusho bikes. The Lilac and the Marusho bikes were pretty decent bikes when properly used for their intended purpose.
They were designed as transportation on the streets of Japan during the 1950's and 1960's where the maximum national speed limit at the time was 36 mph.

They were never up to being racers. High RPM was sudden death for them


I just don't think the brand gets a fair shake when it comes to its history.

Maybe those bikes back in Japan almost 60 yrs ago is what I found interesting in the Moto Guzzi line that I have liked for the last 47 yrs.

 Maybe my wife is right and I am a nutcase.
 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

Cool story, thanks for sharing.

I think you're just bragging that you got to go to Japan and we didn't.   :tongue:

I've been to Japan too  :tongue:   :boozing:

pete roper

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 01:51:33 PM »
Mike, they were horrible! Three part pressed up crank that was *Aligned* with a pinch bolt. Wholly inadequate crowded roller big ends *Lubricated*, (Again I use the word advisedly!) by centrifugal syphon! Splash fed everything else, the pistons were made of cheese, the connecting rods were matchsticks. The huge lump on the front is a 'Dyna-start' system, a means to fail to make electricity by not working very well as a DC motor to start the bike and then when started not working very well as a DC generator! They were vile! They had a four speed rotary gearbox so if you were descending a very steep hill and reached terminal velocity it was possible to go straight from forth to first by changing *up* another gear at which point, when you dropped the clutch the back wheel would lock up and the rods would snap simultaneously! A few seconds of white-knuckle terror there!

The 'Universal joint' connecting the gearbox to the driveshaft was a layrub joint that either tore or turned to dust if exposed to sunlight, the brakes were non existant and the cycle parts were all hacked seemingly from a single ingot of pig iron. A Lilac LS18 weighed about three times as much as the US Navy Pacific fleet and produced twelve inch/pounds of torque and half a horsepower! Pieces of roadkill had time to get out of the way of one as it made its less than stately progress down the road!

As I said, I owned several of them. Sure they were interesting, but interesting in the same way as amputating your own foot with a pen-knife and no anaesthetic is interesting! Really, they weren't a very good motorbike. That's why the company isn't around any more! Thank God!

Pete

Offline Mike Harper

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 02:50:53 PM »
Mike, they were horrible! Three part pressed up crank that was *Aligned* with a pinch bolt. Wholly inadequate crowded roller big ends *Lubricated*, (Again I use the word advisedly!) by centrifugal syphon! Splash fed everything else, the pistons were made of cheese, the connecting rods were matchsticks. The huge lump on the front is a 'Dyna-start' system, a means to fail to make electricity by not working very well as a DC motor to start the bike and then when started not working very well as a DC generator! They were vile! They had a four speed rotary gearbox so if you were descending a very steep hill and reached terminal velocity it was possible to go straight from forth to first by changing *up* another gear at which point, when you dropped the clutch the back wheel would lock up and the rods would snap simultaneously! A few seconds of white-knuckle terror there!

The 'Universal joint' connecting the gearbox to the driveshaft was a layrub joint that either tore or turned to dust if exposed to sunlight, the brakes were non existant and the cycle parts were all hacked seemingly from a single ingot of pig iron. A Lilac LS18 weighed about three times as much as the US Navy Pacific fleet and produced twelve inch/pounds of torque and half a horsepower! Pieces of roadkill had time to get out of the way of one as it made its less than stately progress down the road!

As I said, I owned several of them. Sure they were interesting, but interesting in the same way as amputating your own foot with a pen-knife and no anaesthetic is interesting! Really, they weren't a very good motorbike. That's why the company isn't around any more! Thank God!

Pete



I agree they were not up to any form of current day standards and could have been designed and built much better than they were but they were what they were whether you liked them or not.

Japan was full of crappy designed bikes back in the 50's like  Cabton, Pointer, DSK, Emuro, Meguro, Rikuo, BIM, Showa, and hundreds more.  Why anyone would have imported these bike into the USA or Australia is the
question I have. Plainly they were never up to the task of higher speed limits and off road use.

In the UK the Triumphs, BSA's. Royal Enfields and the rest did OK but when they started coming to the US the were abused beyond their limits by the Ricky Racers of the day.
All of which now are part of history and worth more than they were new.

Back when we were a British dealership in the 60's it was great. If our customers rode on Sunday, We worked all week to get them ready for the next Sunday.  Aaah, those were the days, when you had to take 45 minutes to roll out all of the service bikes in order to just get room to work



They all have their place in history though and most have gone away.  Yet they all served to get countries on their feet after the war just like the Moto Guzzi " Guzzino"  did for Italy.

Guzzi has built their fair share of atrocities over the years but time goes on for all of us




« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 02:53:00 PM by Mike Harper »

Offline Gino

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 04:39:49 PM »
Pete, funny as f@@k, never heard of them and now I'll never buy one  :grin:

Offline garbln

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Re: Odd Guzzi-looking bike
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2017, 12:40:23 PM »
The friend of mine that had them, rebuilt a couple, found that the pistons were the same as some model Honda of the time.  However the ones he pulled out were like factory seconds.  Faulty castings and out of spec. he put the new Honda pistons and rings in and they worked fine till he sold them.  Yes the U-joint was a thick rubber disk.

 

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