1997 1100 Sport Question - Whine Rear Drive

[Groover]

This is a question someone had through my girlfriend's facebook account, some vintage bike group she belongs to so thought I'd make her look good if I can get a good reply from you guys 

This is the question she sent me:

I have a request. I have a friend who bought a 1997 Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport with very low miles but is having trouble with a possible noise he thinks is in the shaft drive unit. He describes it as a whine/ring type sound. (He normally rides Harley's and thus couldn't easily hear noises like this if he tried.) The bike has been sitting for some time and he's not sure it's an issue or normal for this Italian model. Transmission works normally and gear changes are crisp. Just the sound seems to be an issue. He will soon change the rear drive fluid but thought I might ask our Guzzi friends and ask their opinions. What do you think?

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[RinkRat II]

 Hey Groover, Funny thing I was talking to a guy yesterday about this very subject....here Ya gohttp://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=56498.120


      Paul B

[Groover]

Ok, thanks Paul. I read that post, and I couldn't quite tell if the 97 did or did not have the straight cut gears. Either way, thank you. I told her to reply with this.. sort of generic, but at least would give them a direction:


“Some years of the Moto Guzzi Sport 1100 production came with the straight cut gears in the gearbox that are known for that whine sound. However, the straight cut gears are more prone to wear over the helically cut transmission gears used in other years for that bike, especially the 5th gear. Check the drain plug in the transmission box when draining the fluid; If metal particles are stuck to the magnetized drain plug, then you may want to check into this further and sooner than later. If no metal flakes/shavings on the drain plug, then don’t worry about the whine too much as it’s a characteristic of the straight cut gears if that is what that bike has. He should also be able to tell from the level or fill plug for the transmission if that bike has the straight or helical cut gears.”

Also told her to let them know they can get they can get great help on any Moto Guzzi by joining the http://www.wildguzzi.com/forum/

Good enough I think, right? She's gonna sound like a true gearhead..

Thanks again!

[pete roper]

If it's a Carburetted Sport it's almost certainly got a rooted gearbox.

[Groover]

From the tiny pic I saw, I think it's injected. What does rooted gearbox mean?

[pete roper]

Broken, buggered, 'Donald Ducked'!

[Groover]

Broken, buggered, 'Donald Ducked'!

Got it! Thanks for the replies!

[Tom]

Y'up.  I got one of those. '95 Red.

[Groover]

Are these the same gears that are in the '87 Le Mans 1000 SE? Do I need to worry about this too?

[Tom]

As far as I know....No.  I have an '87 SE also.  The gears in the 5 speed trans. that gave problems aren't the same.  Someone else can give more details.  Maybe Pete can give more details.

[Huzo]

 

From the tiny pic I saw, I think it's injected. What does rooted gearbox mean?

Jeez this forum makes me happy... I love Australia !

[Huzo]

I don't know anything about the vagaries of other Guzzies, but it's sad to hear that the gearboxes of those carbed 1100 Sports are frail. I met a guy once while on a trip on my GSXR1100 and he offered to swap for 10 minutes on his 1100 Sport ( could it have been a Corsa?) don't know about that bit, but it had CARBIES I loved the slurping, sucking visceral sound and that fuelley smell that was maybe more imagined than real, but I knew then and there that it was a beautiful machine. That was the ONLY time I had even sat on a Guzzi prior to buying my Norge over the 'phone. Hooked!

[malik]

I wouldn't call the straight-cut gears on the carb Sport frail. They do (usually) last a long time, 'tho' they do whine, and the floating disc rotors rattle & the carbs suck. All part of the magic.

[Huzo]

I wouldn't call the straight-cut gears on the carb Sport frail. They do (usually) last a long time, 'tho' they do whine, and the floating disc rotors rattle & the carbs suck. All part of the magic.

Damn right ! I was some of these grizzling buggers would stop trying to find where the character is in their bikes and love 'me for what they are. That oughta' just buy a plastic CB1100 Honda and bugger off on that !

[ailgev]

I wouldn't only check the 5th gear. Id check the other gears as well. Once the 5th gear starts decomposing it causes havoc with the other gears as well.

BTW I didn't think 97 Sports came with straight cut boxes.

[pete roper]

There are several reasons why the Carb Sport gearboxes are more fragile than most of the five speeds. Part of it is the gears themselves part of it is materials and part of it is the rest of the driveline but they are more failure prone, especially if used gently.

Pete

[voncrump]

My gearbox was in good condition when I replaced a clutch and as a precaution did the gearbox bearings and seals.
I don't baby my bike. Check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3-5tYAVSo

Good fun. Cheers,voncrump

[Groover]

My gearbox was in good condition when I replaced a clutch and as a precaution did the gearbox bearings and seals.
I don't baby my bike. Check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3-5tYAVSo

Good fun. Cheers,voncrump

Fun video, and I do hear the gear whine. As a kid growing up in Italy in the 80's into Vespa racing, that gear whine typically indicated a highly modified Vespa as the high performance primary drive (Campana) typically came with straight cut gears and sounded just like that. Some sounded louder than others depending on the number of teeth per diameter that particular brand bell used. If I remember right, less teeth per diameter on straight cut gears equated to louder whine (coarser gears basically). The streets of Italy echoed that sound a lot back then, especially downhill streets where engine braking was used a lot.

[rocker59]

Ok, thanks Paul. I read that post, and I couldn't quite tell if the 97 did or did not have the straight cut gears. Either way, thank you. I told her to reply with this.. sort of generic, but at least would give them a direction:
 

The change from straight-cut to helical transmission gears happened during the production run of the 1997 Sport 1100, which was calendar year 1996.

As per usual, there are no good records noting at which VIN the changeover occured.

If the bike is whining in 5th gear going down the highway, it is a possibility that the bike has straight-cut gears, and 5th may be on it's way out.  Or, it could just be the glorious sound of the straight-cut gears just doing their thing.

The Sport 1100s make a lot of noises.  If the person has never ridden Guzzis, I would take his complaint with a grain of salt, but by all means have someone familiar with Guzzis look at it for a diagnosis.

[rocker59]

I don't know anything about the vagaries of other Guzzies, but it's sad to hear that the gearboxes of those carbed 1100 Sports are frail. 

I've beat the shite out of mine for 35,000 miles.  No problems, no worries.

[rocker59]

Fun video, and I do hear the gear whine. 

Lots of whine in a Sport 1100 gearbox,even from new.  I love it.  But I like to see and hear the mechanicals of a machine.  Many people don't.

[Groover]

Lots of whine in a Sport 1100 gearbox,even from new.  I love it.  But I like to see and hear the mechanicals of a machine.  Many people don't.

I think the guy whom was asking the question on facebook said the bike only had 2000 miles on it, so that confirms that.

[rocker59]

I think the guy whom was asking the question on facebook said the bike only had 2000 miles on it, so that confirms that.

Speculating, but my guess is he's got an early production 1997 which received the straight-cut gearbox.

Compared to any modern motorcycle, they whine.  A LOT.

It would still be a good idea to at least drain the gearbox oil and inspect for swarf.  Then, refill with good synthetic gear oil 75w90 or 80w90.  I use Mobil-1.

[Groover]

Speculating, but my guess is he's got an early production 1997 which received the straight-cut gearbox.

Compared to any modern motorcycle, they whine.  A LOT.

It would still be a good idea to at least drain the gearbox oil and inspect for swarf.  Then, refill with good synthetic gear oil 75w90 or 80w90.  I use Mobil-1.

Ok, I'll send that information over so she can add it to the facebook page where that post was. I'm tempted to tell her to tell him the bike is just in need of a ton of repair and that I can take it off his hands and end the misery 

[cruzziguzzi]

OK, I'll be that guy?


Cush Drive?


Todd.

[rocker59]

OK, I'll be that guy?


Cush Drive?


Todd.

1997 = Cush Drive in bevel box.

1992-1996 Daytonas and Sport 1100s had no cush drive.

[cruzziguzzi]

1997 = Cush Drive in bevel box.

1992-1996 Daytonas and Sport 1100s had no cush drive.

Isn't there some confusion as to whether or not it has carbs though?

Carbs = no cush, right?

Todd.

[rocker59]

Isn't there some confusion as to whether or not it has carbs though?

Carbs = no cush, right?

Todd.

I didn't ready any confusion.  All model year 1997 Sport 1100s were EFI.  All model year 1997 Sport 1100s had cush drive.

[Tom]

'95 red & '96 black 1100Sport have carbs.  If it has FI it would be a 1100 Sporti.  Or....so I remember.  On the '95, I dumped the gear lube and put in synthetic.  The black '96 doesn't make noise like the '95.  It also has less mileage.

[Groover]

Sounds like someone needs to flowchart this bike...