Author Topic: My Cali 3 cafe racer build  (Read 21190 times)

Offline brightonguzzi

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2016, 03:16:03 AM »
@ritratto - I reckon the silencers (mufflers) are from Keihan in the UK: http://www.keihan.co.uk/

I have them on my Le Mans and they sound nice, not loo loud and they are great quality.

I ran them in chrome for a few years and then had them camcoated in satin black last year.

Sorry Misterb for stepping on your toes......
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Offline brightonguzzi

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2016, 03:21:29 AM »
Misterb.

Lovely build, really nice to see how you did everything.

For the tail light have you considered

1 - inserting tail and stop lights into the cut frame rails? Very discreet and keeps the clean lines of the hump
2 - using an old Ford light, similar to the one on the famous Zagato Guzzi, set into the hump.

Also, I wonder if your indicators are staying? They look quiet bulky to me. Rizoma make some lovely sleek ones, expensive but sexy.

Cheers
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 03:23:11 AM by brightonguzzi »
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2016, 05:07:02 AM »
Yes, the stainless silencers are from Keihan, they were £282 plus VAT, so about £340 in total. I'd originally wanted to something similar from Armours, but despite Emails and many phone calls, they never replied or picked up the phone. So went with the slightly more expensive Keihans, ordered them on a Tuesday, they arrived two days later.


Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2016, 05:25:04 AM »
Misterb.

Lovely build, really nice to see how you did everything.

For the tail light have you considered

1 - inserting tail and stop lights into the cut frame rails? Very discreet and keeps the clean lines of the hump
2 - using an old Ford light, similar to the one on the famous Zagato Guzzi, set into the hump.

Also, I wonder if your indicators are staying? They look quiet bulky to me. Rizoma make some lovely sleek ones, expensive but sexy.

Cheers

I chose those indicators over smaller LED options because the bike is loosely based around the style that would've been appropriate in the late 70's / early 80's and so I felt something like Rizomas would look a little jarring and out of place. That said I'm not that attached to those particular indicators, they may be changed in the future. Also I may just leave them on for the one day a year they are needed for the annual MOT, once that's out of the way I could remove them until the next years MOT. When I wire the bike up, I'll made the indicators easily detachable.

I've considered all sorts of options for the rear light, including a light built flush into the back of the seat hump, not easy to get right, and using a flexible LED light strip to run around the lower edge of the seat hump.  Ditto having lights set into the ends of the frame rails. One issue with each of those options is that I'd still need a separate lamp to light the number plate, along with a bracket to mount the plate. So at the moment I want to make the plate mount and have that also mount the rear light. But again, once its done, if I don't like the result, its fairly easy to change.

As for the paint, despite a lot of folks saying it would be sacrilege to paint that lovely shiny alloy tank, its gonna be painted. I have considered leaving the knee cut outs unpainted, and I've seen a bike with the same tank as mine painted like that, which looked pretty good, though that was painted black, not sure if it would look so good if the bike was red..








The reason I'm set against leaving the tank unpainted is that I already have an unpainted alloy tank on my Norley, which has been a pita, as the alloy is so easily marked an scratched. In fact, when time and money allow, I'm going to get that tank painted too.





   

I guess that's why project bikes are never really finished, there's always something to be improved on..

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2016, 05:25:04 AM »

Offline Old Jock

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2016, 06:06:00 AM »
Yeah seen a lot of your other stuff on the Duc forum

You have a very capable skill set there and use it to good effect.

I feel inadequate

John

Offline coastdude

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2016, 01:56:01 AM »
Great read, thanks! In Australia, cartons of beer are often used as currency but I'll have to try the cakes and biscuits approach as I can make those myself.
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2016, 01:00:51 PM »
Haven't got much done on the Guzzi this week, as I'm struggling for space, having just bought a small miller / piller drill, which takes up a bit more room than I expected. Though I did finally finish the rear light cover, having machined it down to make it thinner for the third time. Need to work out the best way of mounting it to the bike next..







Talking of tea ...Today while out for a ride on my MTB I stopped at the machine shop (who machined the stainless wheel spindles for me) for a cuppa, where one of there customers was busy setting the timing on an engine, that had needed an urgent repair, think it pulled a stud. The chap doing the timing builds race engines for old Jaguars, this particular engine was about to go into a lightweight E Type that was off to race at Spa next weekend..





 

Offline Rick4003

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2016, 02:52:22 PM »
Very nice progress on the bike! I like it a lot!

Also that jaguar engine is a piece of art! Looks like it is one of the aluminium block ones. Very nice!

On your battery thoughts, I run a "biltema" lithium battery on 5,0(11,2)Ah and this one spins the motor just fine, even for several starts in a row. The lithium batteries requires a special battery charger and a special voltage regulator that can charge with more than 14v. Just so you remember to add that to the costs. I use a Ctek Lithium XS that I'm very satisfied with. For the regulator I use a Elektronik Sachse Regulator type 4b. This regulators voltage can be adjusted between 13v to 15v. The battery I use needs to be charged at more than 14v to reach full capacity, so it is necessary to use a regulator that can be adjusted in the output voltage.

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Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2016, 03:39:33 AM »
The Jag engine has an alloy block, they are very rare from the factory, in the class the E type is racing in, they are allowed to use replica parts, such as they block, though they have to be identical to the originals.

Thanks for the info on the Li battery, yes I already has a suitable charger, as I use a Ballistic Li battery on another bike.

As for the regulator, that's still confusing me, its Saprisa alternator which I'm told has a single phase output (two yellow wires) and a half-wave rectified DC supply to charge the battery. Which begs the question what the use of the regulator, other than to work an idiot light on the dash ?   

Offline Old Jock

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2016, 06:18:47 AM »
On this thread Roy posted a diagram for the Reg Rec

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84467.0

I'm not sure I understand the question, if the rectifier didn't have a reference it would just continue to rectify the output from the Alternator, which being a permanent magnet, gives all the output its capable of at any given RPM.

You need a reference to regulate the DC voltage to stop it overcharging the battery............ ............unless I'm missing something

John 

Offline Muley

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2016, 06:51:33 AM »
 :bow:

I love it!


I wish I had the time, energy and $ to do such a project.  Oops, I forgot skill :embarrassed:

I've been carrying a 98 EV mill (that's an old term for engine for the younger set :wink:) around in the back of my antique Suburban for years now :huh: It could be the start of something like this.

Great work and interesting thread!
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2016, 11:46:04 AM »
On this thread Roy posted a diagram for the Reg Rec

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84467.0

I'm not sure I understand the question, if the rectifier didn't have a reference it would just continue to rectify the output from the Alternator, which being a permanent magnet, gives all the output its capable of at any given RPM.

You need a reference to regulate the DC voltage to stop it overcharging the battery............ ............unless I'm missing something

John

Thanks for the link John, sadly I'm an idiot when it comes to electronics, so I'm now even more confused! The workshop manuals I have don't quite match the wiring on the bike (which was incomplete when I got the bike in any case), it doesn't help that one is in Italian..

So, starting from the beginning, I have three wires leaving the alternator, two yellow, one greyish..





I know that the two yellow wires go to the rectifier, I don't know if it matters which one goes to either of the two connections on the rectifier? I don't see how you could tell them apart if it did matter, so I assume it doesn't..

The greyish wire then goes directly to the battery.. I'd assumed this would go to the positive terminal of the battery an hence charge the battery, which isn't what I'd expect. Maybe it goes to the battery earth instead, and a wire from the rectifier carries the rectified / regulated current to the positive terminal of the battery?   

This is the rectifier and its four terminals, I think the first two on the left connect to the two yellow wires from the alternator, not sure about the other two.. I think one controls the charge light on the dash (the right most?)...  Which leaves the terminal marked 'LE', does this carry the current to the positive battery terminal? 
 





Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2016, 12:31:48 PM »
Also I weighed the bike today, no petrol of course, but with all oils, came to 97kg on the front wheel and 100kg on the rear wheel.. so 197 kg total (434 lbs). I googled the weight of a standard Cali 3, and got 250kg dry (551 lbs).

So its lost around 50kg (110lbs) in weight. Not bad, it could lose more  with a drilled flywheel and lighter calipers, forks etc, but that's getting expensive, and I'm happy with the weight for now. 

Offline Old Jock

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2016, 12:56:44 PM »
Well thank goodness you're not so good at something  :wink:

The 2 yellow wires are the Alternator output & can go on any way as you stated. They must go to the 2 terminals marked R with the wavy line denoting AC, which is the output of the alternator

Now the tricky bit, I am struggling a bit with this set up as I have never seen a set up where there is a wire direct from the battery to the alternator except when the alternator is regulated (like the old Bosch system on the earlier bikes).

Carl Allison's wiring diagram looks a bit unfinished which is a shame, but shows a wire from the generator going directly to the positive battery terminal, now the only reason I could think of would be as an excitation source but just doesn't really gel as I thought the Saprisa is a permanent magnet alternator

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/pdfs/1987_California_III.pdf

From the diagram one wire goes to the fuse box, probably the output, or some sort of output and combined sensing and the other to the warning light

So I am a bit stumped............ .......I'm going to ping Kiwi Roy to see if he can help as he's great on electrical system, I think his brother is stripping a similar machine for mechanical work right now too which is an added bonus.

Hopefully I can rouse Roy to help you

Right now I'm guessing a bit how this is meant to work

John



Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2016, 02:25:14 PM »
It is a bit unusual looking but I can see how it might work.
Could you take your multimeter and do a couple of tests.
Are all 3 wires connected?
Switch the meter leads around and see if the reading is the same.
If you don't get continuity on the Ohms scale try the diode test scale -->|--
If the bike is running take an AC Voltage reading between each pair of wires at say 1000 or 2000 revs
Please take the cover off the alternator and take a picture in particular of any extra components.

The regulator seems to be a bit different than we are used to seeing, I suspect it may be a center tapped stator with the regulator grounding the yellows through a pair of SCRs (control diodes), the center tap of the stator going to the battery positive terminal.

Sometimes Carl's drawings get distorted somehow on the web, the black and the green looking wire may be one and the same from the generator light (one colour layer shifted down and to the right), I doubt that wire is required for charging, just for the idiot light.
The Red/Black wire is 12 Volts switched by the ignition switch, it is probably the important Voltage reference telling the regulator when it needs to crank up the charging.
The ground wire to the regulator is very important, it will carry all the charging current and it will also effect the reference input, ground it to a bolt or screw on the engine.

I don't believe it has or requires a wire from regulator to battery plus.

If all else fails I'm sure a direct connected after market regulator can be made to work.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 02:51:45 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2016, 03:39:11 PM »
Thanks for the replies, I have Carl's diagram and have used it in preference to those in the workshop manual. I think the confusion is due to Carl's diagram showing a red wire going from the alternator directly to the +ve battery terminal, whereas my bike has a greyish wire instead. I will do the checks with a multi meter you suggest, and see what I can find.

That said, I still don't understand how the rectifier can regulate the current when the power from the alternator goes directly to the battery and not via the rectifier?

 

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2016, 05:28:50 PM »
The control device can be anywhere in the circuit, here it's between chassis and each yellow wire connected to a rectifier inside the regulator. When the yellow wire goes Negative the rectifier clamps it to the chassis which forces the center tap (grey wire) to go Positive and push current to the battery.
Half a cycle later when the other yellow wire goes Negative, it's rectifier again forces the center tap to charge the battery.
This idea was very common in old tube radios.

In this arrangement each coil only works half the time

In this case the rectifiers are not just common diodes they will be Silicon Controlled Rectifiers that can be turned off when the battery is up to Voltage effectively breaking the circuit.


Is the regulator a Ducati Energia?

This kind of explains it
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/diode/diode_6.html
The first diagram is similar to the normal Guzzi single phase system, two of the diodes will be SCRs
The Second diagram shows a center tapped transformer feeding a simpler diode arrangement (these 2 will be SCRs)
In the second circuit if you flip the two diodes over you can see that the polarity on RL (battery) will change
The center tap of the transformer is your grey wire point (C)
(A) & (B) are the yellow wires.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 05:45:03 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline swooshdave

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2016, 11:06:29 PM »
I hope there not too boring, at the moment the coils are giving me a headache in finding them a home on the bike, so I'm waiting for a single fire coil I've ordered to turn up. While the billet cover I made for the rear light still doesn't quite look the part, so more machining will be needed on that.

For those without an hour to spare on youtube, here's how it looks now, still haven't finalised the colour scheme in my head, but it'll probably end up red with gold pinstripes an Guzzi decals..







Can you provide a straight on side shot of the bike? I'd like to Photoshop a paint scheme. If you don't mind.
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2016, 04:31:18 AM »
Can you provide a straight on side shot of the bike? I'd like to Photoshop a paint scheme. If you don't mind.

Sounds interesting... at the moment the two most likely options are red or black, with black / gold 'Moto Guzzi' decals in both cases..

 





Offline swooshdave

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2016, 12:07:33 PM »
Sounds interesting... at the moment the two most likely options are red or black, with black / gold 'Moto Guzzi' decals in both cases..

 






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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2016, 06:52:10 PM »
That was quick  :thumb:

But I don't intend leaving the tank unpainted, except perhaps for the knee cut outs. I could see the bike with those graphics, perhaps gold on a black background, or maybe white or gold or even silver on a red background. Something to consider for sure.

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2016, 07:06:53 PM »
I vote for Black paint..

are going to have a front fender? I hope so, in gloss black.
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2016, 04:05:31 AM »
I vote for Black paint..

are going to have a front fender? I hope so, in gloss black.

Yes I want to fit a front fender, haven't found anything suitable yet. I did try an alloy blade type, which I'd have to make a mount for, but like most such classic fenders its too narrow, makes it look odd on the bike. As for the colour, I started out wanting it to be red.. the colour of speed.. but now I'm slowly edging toward a black, with gold pinstripes. I'll probably keep flip flopping until the last minute before the paint goes on.

Offline swooshdave

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2016, 01:42:37 PM »
Yes I want to fit a front fender, haven't found anything suitable yet. I did try an alloy blade type, which I'd have to make a mount for, but like most such classic fenders its too narrow, makes it look odd on the bike. As for the colour, I started out wanting it to be red.. the colour of speed.. but now I'm slowly edging toward a black, with gold pinstripes. I'll probably keep flip flopping until the last minute before the paint goes on.

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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2016, 07:24:41 AM »
You've changed my tank !  I think the stripe graphics work well on the angular Guzzi LM1 style tank, but not so well on the more curvy alloy tank I have on my bike. Its all food for thought  :thumb: 

Offline swooshdave

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2016, 11:41:41 AM »
You've changed my tank !  I think the stripe graphics work well on the angular Guzzi LM1 style tank, but not so well on the more curvy alloy tank I have on my bike. Its all food for thought  :thumb:

I just laid a 1000S tank over it to see what it would look like. It just to give an impression of the colors. I'm not going to paint your tank for you! :-)
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Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2016, 12:44:37 PM »
I just laid a 1000S tank over it to see what it would look like. It just to give an impression of the colors. I'm not going to paint your tank for you! :-)

Its all good, very helpful  :thumb:   I am edging toward black / gold, it would integrate with the cut down frame nicely.. decisions decisions, perhaps we should have a vote on it :smiley:

Well, having wasted hours trying to make a bracket to mount the silencers to the Tarozzi rearsets look anything but crap, I gave up and ordered a LeMans 1 H pipe to replace the battered original on the Cali. Which arrived today, cost me £110 from Keihan, it allows the silencers to move forward just enough to line up the silencer mount with the rearset mount. Looks much better too.

Cant make a start on the wiring yet, as I'm still waiting for the single fire coil I ordered last week to arrive. There's no rush now I guess, given it wont be finished until the good weather has long gone this year.. Be good to get the Guzzi all done and dusted, as I have a new mini project I'd like to make a start on soon..





 

Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2016, 08:14:35 AM »
Having problems with the carbs, the new throttle cable I bought doesn't fit the Tomaselli throttle.. the adjuster thread is different, and there isn't enough meat on the throttle housing to tap it out... sigh... Will have to make up a new one using a Venhill kit, which I've got. Making it the right length looks tricky given the 1 into 2 splitter the Guzzi uses.

Have a similar issue with the Choke cables, but in this case the handlebar casing which houses the choke lever is damaged and cant be used. So I spent £30 and bought a pair of replacement choke plungers which have the lever on the carb tops. Gets rid of three cables, the splitter and the handlebar lever too.



Finally finished the rear light and its mount, here's how it was made, along with getting the exhaust fitted correctly.

https://youtu.be/ZRnRCXc7K-8

And this is how it looks now. Still waiting on a couple of electrical parts, so cant make a start on the wiring loom yet. There's no rush now, as it needs to be finished by next spring. I'm still pondering what colour to paint it, red or black??? Cant decide. I may have a go at painting it, though my past efforts while being ok, I've never managed to get that glass like finish I want.




Offline Misterb

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #88 on: October 25, 2016, 06:17:00 PM »
Been kicking my heels with the Guzzi this week, as I wait for a couple of parts to turn up, so I made this cover for the stem top nut today for something to do..






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Offline Rick4003

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Re: My Cali 3 cafe racer build
« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2016, 07:58:58 PM »
 :thumb: :popcorn:

Looks good!
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Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
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