(NGC) - a rant

[Gliderjohn]

In the last couple of months I have been given a "handicap motel room twice" because that was what was available even though I do not have any disabilities, but...my career was working with people with physical and mental disabilities so I am well aware of their challanges and neither of these rooms were very "accessible". Do these motel chains not consult with anyone with actual disabilities?
GliderJohn

[Murray]

In the last couple of months I have been given a "handicap motel room twice" because that was what was available even though I do not have any disabilities, but...my career was working with people with physical and mental disabilities so I am well aware of their challanges and neither of these rooms were very "accessible". Do these motel chains not consult with anyone with actual disabilities?
GliderJohn

I'm assuming you have contacted the concerned chains and pointed out the issues, maybe there is an avenue for a consultation service.

[rodekyll]

Accessibility is a bit of a thing for me, too.  I grew up with a blind mother and surrounded by the multiply-handicapped kids she tutored.  Things like impossible-to-navigate clothing departments, parallel grated storm drains, abrupt curbs, utility poles in the middle of the sidewalk, public walkways too narrow for wheelchairs, hotel tubs with no traction .  . . . I can go on.  Actually, I did and deleted a lot of it. 

They'll tell you that they're in compliance with the ADA.  That's code for "doing the minimum that doesn't get us fined."  Where it's not spelled out, businesses and governments can't generalize based on what was spelled out, and like you say, they don't ask anyone what should be done in a specific situation (besides the common sense stuff that didn't get done) to improve access.  All that matters is at the measurable, actionable level, they're in compliance.  Whether access is affected one way or the other doesn't matter.

The silliest thing I think I've seen with respect for lip service to the Americans with Disabilities Act are these idiots who put braille signs up for the mens room and "cafeteria this way" and such.  How's a blind person supposed to know where to touch?  Are they supposed to walks through buildings rubbing their hands all over the walls?

[john fish]

I would like to see educational spaces built that are tailored specifically for folks with disabilities.  For folks in wheelchairs-  lower doorknobs, sinks, light switches, ceilings, etc.  For the blind, no lights.  You get the idea and probably have more suggestions, I'm sure, and I would like to hear them.

Anyway, let the non disabled try to navigate those spaces and they would have a greater understanding of the daily frustrations faced by some people.

[AJ Huff]

I'm sure they do the bare minimum of what building codes require them to do.

-AJ

[Lannis]

I'm sure they do the bare minimum of what building codes require them to do.

-AJ

What else WOULD they do?   Can a store voluntarily have wheel-chair accessible aisles between clothing racks in a store where rent is $100 a square foot?    They couldn't stay in business.

Typically, the handicapped-accessible motel rooms have a roll-in shower and hand-rails along the toilet.    Other than having plenty of room to move around, and switches where you can reach them .... ?

Lannis

[Toecutter]

I spent a great many years in the Hotel Business. Every hotel I worked in had accessible amenities... a few rooms with curbless showers, large enough for a wheelchair, rails, braille signs in public areas.

I guess, from a business perspective... if you have 300 rooms, and 98% of your business is not "differently abled", then there needs to be a business decision made? Can you afford to make every room a large walk in shower? Can a restaurant afford to leave every aisle wide enough for chairs, when they have to maximize revenue per sq. ft? Now, when they DO have accessible amenities, they should be wholly accessible...

I  guess, to use a piss-poor analogy, since veganism is a choice... but it will do here, I think. If I make a menu, and my clientele is 99/100 omnivorous, I can't give up 25% of my menu share to vegan options. However... the one or two vegan options I have, should be amazing.

That said... every building and business should be accessible in some way, in a manner which meets the needs of people, as well as the business.

Reality, however, says that business will never self regulate itself in a manner that has a negative effect on the business.

[rodekyll]

I spent a great many years in the Hotel Business. Every hotel I worked in had accessible amenities... a few rooms with curbless showers, large enough for a wheelchair, rails, braille signs in public areas.

I guess, from a business perspective... if you have 300 rooms, and 98% of your business is not "differently abled", then there needs to be a business decision made? Can you afford to make every room a large walk in shower? Can a restaurant afford to leave every aisle wide enough for chairs, when they have to maximize revenue per sq. ft? Now, when they DO have accessible amenities, they should be wholly accessible...

I  guess, to use a piss-poor analogy, since veganism is a choice... but it will do here, I think. If I make a menu, and my clientele is 99/100 omnivorous, I can't give up 25% of my menu share to vegan options. However... the one or two vegan options I have, should be amazing.

That said... every building and business should be accessible in some way, in a manner which meets the needs of people, as well as the business.

Reality, however, says that business will never self regulate itself in a manner that has a negative effect on the business.

We're not complaining that 100% of rooms are not handicapped accessible.  We're complaining that the ones that claim to be are not.

I would like to see educational spaces built that are tailored specifically for folks with disabilities.  For folks in wheelchairs-  lower doorknobs, sinks, light switches, ceilings, etc.  For the blind, no lights.  You get the idea and probably have more suggestions, I'm sure, and I would like to hear them.

Anyway, let the non disabled try to navigate those spaces and they would have a greater understanding of the daily frustrations faced by some people.

So then you can have the blind and everyone else at the same disadvantage?  Not taking a shot at you, but this is exactly the thinking I'm talking about.  A minority of the vision impaired are completely sightless.  All this does is reduce accessibility to the folks charged with teaching them, the janitors, etc.

[Toecutter]

We're not complaining that 100% of rooms are not handicapped accessible.  We're complaining that the ones that claim to be are not.

I 100% agree with you. It does raise the question, though... what does a 100% accessible room look like? If one was to try and ensure that everyone has their needs met?

[rodekyll]

All rooms don't need to be all things to all people.  A few need to be tailored to specific needs, like blindness, a wheelchair. potty problems, service animals, etc, AND THEIR "ABLED" companions.  That doesn't mean that a single "accessible" room needs to accommodate ALL handicaps, and in the interest of serving more than one disabled traveler, there should not be just one shrine to the ADA.  But there needs to be a few rooms with specific concessions made for SOME (not necessarily overlapping) needs.  Simple things.  Put the stovetop controls in the front of the stove so an impaired person doesn't drag their sleeves across hot burners.  Wing handled doorknobs.  Light switches (and outlets, for goddess's sake) at an accessible level.  Drapery adjustments that can be easily found and used.  Furniture placed for straight-line navigation around the room.  Stuff like that.

[Gliderjohn]

Typically, the handicapped-accessible motel rooms have a roll-in shower and hand-rails along the toilet.    Other than having plenty of room to move around, and switches where you can reach them .... ?

Both of the rooms I stayed in were basically regular rooms. The first room had very little open room, everything at normal heights or set back, regular tub/shower with no step through just a shower head on a flexible hose. It did have a couple of grab bars. Second room had more room, but a regular tub/shower with no step through but at least provided a shower chair. Both room's sinks would have been difficult to use for a person in a chair. Both room's clothes racks were high with non-removable hangers. Even though the second room had grab bars at the toliet and tub they were not well placed.
This is why I was not impressed.
GliderJohn

[Murray]

Both of the rooms I stayed in were basically regular rooms. The first room had very little open room, everything at normal heights or set back, regular tub/shower with no step through just a shower head on a flexible hose. It did have a couple of grab bars. Second room had more room, but a regular tub/shower with no step through but at least provided a shower chair. Both room's sinks would have been difficult to use for a person in a chair. Both room's clothes racks were high with non-removable hangers. Even though the second room had grab bars at the toliet and tub they were not well placed.
This is why I was not impressed.
GliderJohn

So in your opinion the bare minimum is not good enough I would suggest the USA been so big someone else somewhere also thinks the same as you do. There maybe even an organisation campaigning for improvement, maybe they'd like some help.

Democracy is the very worst form of government, except for all the other forms we tried before it.

W.Churchill

[john fish]

So then you can have the blind and everyone else at the same disadvantage?  Not taking a shot at you, but this is exactly the thinking I'm talking about.  A minority of the vision impaired are completely sightless.  All this does is reduce accessibility to the folks charged with teaching them, the janitors, etc.

I was not clear in my post.  I do not mean to make all educational spaces such as schools in this manner.  What I would like is to see some spaces designed and constructed specifically to be used as educational tools. 

[LowRyter]

I'm sure they do the bare minimum of what building codes require them to do.

-AJ

And can you imagine what they'd do if there were no regulations?

Now extrapolate that to everything else you know and encounter.