Author Topic: Dyna III  (Read 3748 times)

Offline Bobbilljim

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Eternal Student
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Dyna III
« on: February 15, 2018, 11:30:16 AM »
I also will take video tips. I dont usually make videos but there were some searches for one a while back. I’m also debating on more of a slideshow with pictures because I dont want to hear someone tell me I’m holding the screwdriver wrong or my phrasing is inaccurate. Thoughts? PM me.

Thanks
Rob

"There's Guzzi Cheap, then there's Stupid cheap" - Fotoguzzi

1984 California II

Offline guzzisteve

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 11424
  • "Just Ride It"
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 11:54:25 AM »
Well, just edit out the mishaps like dropping the little washers or screws & nuts into the cyl fins, or squirting brake cleaner on the oily dizzy to find it got on your camera or phone.
OR knocking your beer all over the bike while filming. Have fun.
"Pray through Carlo & your bike shall be healed"
Location: Planet Earth

Offline Bobbilljim

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Eternal Student
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 01:13:27 PM »
Ha Ha!! Yes, I am sure there will be editing. Well, I’m not a big beer drinker but I will be careful with the bourbon!!
Rob

"There's Guzzi Cheap, then there's Stupid cheap" - Fotoguzzi

1984 California II

Online bigbikerrick

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5849
  • 73 Eldo, 98 V 11 ,12 Ural Gear Up, 76 Convert,
  • Location: Southeastern corner of Arizona, right next to "Old Mexico, and New Mexico"
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 04:26:23 PM »
Adding a Dyna III to my Cal II was one of the best mods ever for that bike, and any Guzzi with a dual point distributor. Setting the timing correctly on both cylinders was a royal PITA.
Its nice to set up the Dyna II and then forget about it! My cal II Idles smoother, starts quicker, and overall runs much better with the dyna III and dyna coils.
Rick.
"You meet the most interesting people on a Guzzi"

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Dyna III
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 04:26:23 PM »

Offline Arizona Wayne

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 10:10:56 PM »
My used `81 CX100 w/6K miles on it came w/Dyna 3 ignition and stock coils. In 94+ miles more it has never needed coils replaced.  Have heard a lot of complaints here over the years of Dyna coils.

Online bigbikerrick

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5849
  • 73 Eldo, 98 V 11 ,12 Ural Gear Up, 76 Convert,
  • Location: Southeastern corner of Arizona, right next to "Old Mexico, and New Mexico"
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 04:57:38 PM »
My used `81 CX100 w/6K miles on it came w/Dyna 3 ignition and stock coils. In 94+ miles more it has never needed coils replaced.  Have heard a lot of complaints here over the years of Dyna coils.

 Wayne,I added the black coils that have a higher ohm rating, cant remember if they are 4 or 5 ohms. My 3 ohm coils I had previously would run fine at high rpm, but the idle was crappy. You would not believe how many times I screwed around with the carbs, until I discovered a coil was the cuprit.
Rick.
"You meet the most interesting people on a Guzzi"

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 14141
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 05:02:14 PM »
After the left pickup failed on the (new) Dyna III I put on my (then new) '86 Le Mans 1000, I swore off buying any of their products for my own bikes. Sure, they replaced it for free, but I could just never trust it completely after that.
Charlie

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4907
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 09:03:35 PM »
I would take the time to accurately mark the timing marks in relation to true top dead center. I have never seen a Guzzi that was not off on the marks. Some better, some worse so if I'm useing the marks to set ignition events, I make my own marks. It used to be common that I would see a pointer shaped piece of aluminum bolted to the inside of bel housing . That would be for a time when the thing was apart. If I'm just setting the ignition , I use a sharpie to write on the flywheel . Don't use too large of a degree wheel or you have to pull the head pipes to bolt it on . I'd like to see a video :thumb:
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Offline Bobbilljim

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Eternal Student
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 04:51:18 PM »
I would take the time to accurately mark the timing marks in relation to true top dead center. I have never seen a Guzzi that was not off on the marks. Some better, some worse so if I'm useing the marks to set ignition events, I make my own marks. It used to be common that I would see a pointer shaped piece of aluminum bolted to the inside of bel housing . That would be for a time when the thing was apart. If I'm just setting the ignition , I use a sharpie to write on the flywheel . Don't use too large of a degree wheel or you have to pull the head pipes to bolt it on . I'd like to see a video :thumb:

Thats a good point. Although I haven’t repaced the chain tensioner with a spring loaded one from MG i will soon and have to go through all this again. I made my own marks previously so as long as they are accurate I’ll reuse them.
Rob

"There's Guzzi Cheap, then there's Stupid cheap" - Fotoguzzi

1984 California II

Offline pete mcgee

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 458
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 11:58:04 PM »
A dyna ignition and a chain tensioner take care of around 90% of running / maintenance issues imo.
I think Ive adjusted the timing once in the last 90,000 miles, it gets checked every oil change.
Before these additions it was a pig to ride and needed adjustment of timing monthly and chain tensioning every 6 months.
Pete (no not the Bungendore one)


Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people look intelligent until you hear them speak....

Offline jkguzzi

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 201
    • JKnorth
  • Location: Wolverine, MI
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2018, 06:04:08 AM »
I put a Dyna3 and coils on my '81 Convert when I bought it in 2000. It drastically improved the starting and engine performance and I never touched it again during the 15 years I had the bike.

Offline luthier

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 930
  • Location: Northern NSW
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 07:00:50 AM »
I changed my Cali3 from Motosplat to points and it never missed a beat for nearly 100,000 K's.
Dyna 3 works fine until it fails, then you walk. Points will always get you home .  With the Dyna, just remember never to leave the ignition on without the engine running for more than a minute or you'll fry that sucker.

And make sure you have the correct Guzzi version because if you install the Beemer one  with the sacrificial spark you will probably end up setting your bike on fire. This has happened in the past.

Otherwise they are awesome high spark great units and every home should have one.

Offline Bobbilljim

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Eternal Student
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2018, 01:21:27 PM »
The install went well. I’ll begin splicing the video soon. I ordered the auto tensioner from MG so it should be here this weekend. I am having a little bit of jumping around in the timing but it has been about 8 mo since I tensioned it. I have 5 ohm coils already and they seem to be firing well. Once I get the timing close I’ll start dialing in the carbs as well. I know they are running a little rich. Hopefully bringing all this together will be a smooth running engine. If not I’ll send Dyna their product back and ride with points forever!
:bike-037:
Rob

"There's Guzzi Cheap, then there's Stupid cheap" - Fotoguzzi

1984 California II

Offline ramarren

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • Not Quite Anonymous
  • Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2018, 01:54:33 PM »
The install went well. I'll begin splicing the video soon. I ordered the auto tensioner from MG so it should be here this weekend. I am having a little bit of jumping around in the timing but it has been about 8 mo since I tensioned it. I have 5 ohm coils already and they seem to be firing well. Once I get the timing close I'll start dialing in the carbs as well. I know they are running a little rich. Hopefully bringing all this together will be a smooth running engine. If not I'll send Dyna their product back and ride with points forever!

I fitted Dyna III ignition units to both my big block Guzzis (850T and LMV), once upon a time, along with whatever were the current best quality 12V motorcycle coils to the original spec were back in the day (1995-6 time period). The LeMans V was relatively young when I got it, the 850T had an indeterminate 20K+ on the clock ... No matter, but both had the timing marks jumping around a bit despite that I'd checked the ignition advancer in the distributor. (Yes, I degreed the crankshafts and made nice, easily visible marks on the flywheel for idle and full advance points, for both cylinders. For the LeMans, I also had had the flywheel lightened by 30%...)

So I pulled the front covers on both and found that both had loose/worn timing chains. Quick call and two sets of aftermarket timing gears were on the way. I fitted them to the LeMans first, as its ignition timing was jumpier ... aside from the howling noise of fresh straight cut timing gears, the ignition timing was now dead-on steady.

(Tip: I stupidly had Mobil 1 oil in the LeMans when I installed the timing gears. They howled for 500 miles. I was talking to a friend, an oil chemist, about this and his advice was to replace the Mobil 1 with Castrol GTX 10w40 for a thousand miles. Within a hundred miles, the howling banshee was gone; over the next 900 miles the timing gears had settled down to a nice, machiney gear whine. Needless to say, when I did the 850T, I didn't make the same mistake with the T.)

Doing this made both bikes idle perfectly, run beautifully, and solved a dozen small "jetting" problems. The Dyna III ignition units never failed on me, same for the timing gears: They were both still going strong in both bikes when I sold them a couple hundred thousand miles later.

Offline Bobbilljim

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Eternal Student
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 04:18:27 PM »
^ That kind of advice is priceless. And exactly why i joined this forum.  :bow:

Question, is it necessary to change the gears or would changing the chain suffice?
Rob

"There's Guzzi Cheap, then there's Stupid cheap" - Fotoguzzi

1984 California II

Offline rodekyll

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 21219
  • Not my real name
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 04:29:32 PM »
^ That kind of advice is priceless. And exactly why i joined this forum.  :bow:

Question, is it necessary to change the gears or would changing the chain suffice?

gears and chains are different ways to synchronize the shafts.  Gears are a direct mesh thing.  Chains use sprockets.

If you're asking about changing your chain, the sprockets are usually good, it's the chain and tensioner that get worn.

If you're asking about converting from the sprocket/chain setup to gears, it's a matter of finding a gearset to fit your shafts, tossing the chain stuff, and installing the gears where the sprockets were.

BUT . . .  the discussion of chains v gears and the products to do conversions is like an oil thread.  You might want to start a new topic for that.   :wink: :shocked: :violent1:

Offline ramarren

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • Not Quite Anonymous
  • Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 08:27:42 PM »
^ That kind of advice is priceless. And exactly why i joined this forum.  :bow:

Question, is it necessary to change the gears or would changing the chain suffice?

Either way would do the job, if done correctly.

The simple and much less expensive fix would have been to snug up the chain on the LMV and replace the chain on the 850T.

But I prefer a gear drive for the camshaft when the option is available for the following reason: The issue with the Guzzi big block engine's camshaft drive is that it was originally designed for a gear drive. It was changed to a chain drive because the chain drive is much less expensive to manufacture and generally quieter, but it leaves a pretty long run of chain that is unsupported except for a guide. The guide has to be adjusted regularly to keep the chain tensioned properly. There's no automatic or externally adjustable tensioner ... You have to remove the front cover and adjust it manually. Most of the Guzzis I've seen and worked on over the years have had loose cam chains because very few people ever go through the hassle of removing the front cover to check/adjust the cam chain ... which I found should be done at break-in service and then every 10,000 miles afterwards. So I wanted a "do it once, done forever" solution and went with the gear drive.

It was expensive, but worth it to me.

Offline Arizona Wayne

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 08:52:47 PM »
The Valtek? cam chain tensioner (spring) improves the original manually adjustable chain tensioner.  Never had an issue with my Valtek chain tensioners but I'm not a perfectionist either.  :smiley:  My '87 LM IV ran just fine as did my `81 CX100.   Hardly ever had to adjust their carbs or idle.

There are different timing gear sets available and have heard some are better than others.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 08:56:27 PM by Arizona Wayne »

Offline ramarren

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • Not Quite Anonymous
  • Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 11:42:05 AM »
The Valtek? cam chain tensioner (spring) improves the original manually adjustable chain tensioner.  Never had an issue with my Valtek chain tensioners but I'm not a perfectionist either.  :smiley:  My '87 LM IV ran just fine as did my `81 CX100.   Hardly ever had to adjust their carbs or idle.

There are different timing gear sets available and have heard some are better than others.

It's good to hear that the Valtek adjuster works well! That was seemingly a new product when I was setting up the LMV and 850T; no one had any experience with it and when I saw one it seemed questionable. I'm glad it's worked out and proven reliable, it's surely a lot less expense.

The gears I chose were highly recommended by both Dave Richardson and Teo Lamers, two of the Guzzi folks in that era that I had extremely good experiences working with. I don't remember who made them, but they ran-in beautifully and never gave a moment's trouble, modulo my mistake with the LMV's oil on installation. They were straight-cut aluminum alloy bits, the right metal and right gear face hardening and finish evidently, and beautifully finished. Being straight cut gears, their final voice was a pretty, machinery style song (the old OEM gears from Moto Guzzi were a helical cut mesh: when installed properly and shimmed to tolerance well, almost absolutely silent like a well-tensioned roller chain).

Offline rodekyll

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 21219
  • Not my real name
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 09:14:43 PM »
I converted to timing gears on the EV.  It's a hydro, so no valve clatter.  The gear noise and the popping of the crankcase breather valve is what I hear.  I like it.

Offline Guzzistajohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12374
  • Location: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 10:07:27 PM »
I’ve had gears and dyna on the CX for over 20 years it’s worked flawlessly

ебать Россию!   Not anti social-pro solitude

Offline Bobbilljim

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Eternal Student
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Dyna III
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2018, 11:04:14 PM »
:UPDATE:

Sorry I fell off the eaarth for a while. I was trying to balance the carbs and not having any luck so I broke down and bought a set of vacuum gages and found a serious valve leak. I ordered a new LH cylinder head (because I found under some goo that I figured PO used because the plug to access the cylinder barrel nut was leaking turned out to be a broken off plug and destroyed threads) and cleaned it up with a fresh lapping. I measured out the springs and vlaves and guides and they all are nearly perfect. I put a fresh set of gaskets on both cylinders and heads on both sides. I put new carb boots on and made sure i didn’t have any leaks. Of course I didn’t have any at all on the first go around.  :wink: Anyways, now that I am back to a smooth idling smooth accelerating engine, dialing in the carbs will be much easier. I haven’t forgotten about that video. I just haven’t gotten to it with all the changes.

I love the idea of gears. Are there any heli-cut gears that are worth their salt? I’m sure they cost more than my bike will ever be worth but I’m not investing in this bike I’m passing it down to my daughter. That’s why  her handprints are painted on the tank. Would putting a spot of atf or other detergent oil in the regular oil help in breaking in the gears or would it do that and destroy everything else in the process? Not that I am even close to putting gears in.

As far as taking the timing chain cover off, If you have the right alternator removal tool and a fresh gasket it is the perfect job adjusting the chain for the weekender. It looks like you are doing some serious engine work with all those gears are exposed with your family looking on, when you are performing a service I think more basic than an oil change.

Cheers!



Rob

"There's Guzzi Cheap, then there's Stupid cheap" - Fotoguzzi

1984 California II

 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here