Author Topic: Poor Starting Frequently (Read 14415 times)

robdrobd · « **Reply #60 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:32:17 PM »

Again (and for the last time) -- the evap system is a passive one. It acts on nothing. Assuming the rest of the bike is in good order, it has no effect on starting the bike.
[/quote]

Well, in this case I would have to say the evap system is more of the civil disobedient type rather than the passive resistant type. Kinda like Gandhi. I've put 150 miles on my bike since removing it. It starts every time, idles much better, and doesn't buck in low gears. If anything, NOW my entire bike is passive.

Tom · « **Reply #61 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:43:44 PM »

Disclaimer to Catholics.

"It doesn't run. I've done everything to get it running. It's a mystery!" After it runs. "It's a miracle!"

beetle · « **Reply #62 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:49:13 PM »

But it can't be the canister! rodekyll's huge intellect and impressively massive ego tells us so. I blame the faeries.

Good job robdrobd!

rodekyll · « **Reply #63 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:08:27 PM »

Quote from: beetle on July 27, 2016, 06:49:13 PM

But it can't be the canister! rodekyll's huge intellect and impressively massive ego tells us so. I blame the faeries.
[snip]

Yes. Blame the fairies. Overfilling the tank and flooding the vent system couldn't possibly have anything to do with it.
When the facts fail you, the personal insults follow.

Wildguzzi.com · « **Reply #63 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:08:27 PM »

robdrobd · « **Reply #64 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:13:18 PM »

Quote from: rodekyll on July 27, 2016, 07:08:27 PM

Yes. Blame the fairies. Overfilling the tank and flooding the vent system couldn't possibly have anything to do with it.
When the facts fail you, the personal insults follow.

I appreciate EVERYBODY'S input and will gladly ride with anyone.

rodekyll · « **Reply #65 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:17:03 PM »

Rob, I'm sincerely trying to help you fix a problem here. I have no problem with the differing opinions on the subject (although I feel the personal attacks are beyond the limit). But I feel you're addressing a symptom with the canisterectomy, not the disease.

beetle · « **Reply #66 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:28:43 PM »

Quote from: rodekyll on July 27, 2016, 07:17:03 PM

Rob, I'm sincerely trying to help you fix a problem here. I have no problem with the differing opinions on the subject (although I feel the personal attacks are beyond the limit). But I feel you're addressing a symptom with the canisterectomy, not the disease.

You started the personal attacks, by basically calling everyone who mentioned the canister 'ignorant'.

Quote from: rodekyll the troll

Like I said, it's similar to an aborigine meeting a flashbulb. Science hasn't got a chance in the court of well-established myth and superstition. I leave this discussion to ponder the elevation of ignorance in these enlightened times.

Plus, you insulted my ancestors. Racist pig.

Your clearly a troll. Adding you to my ignore list.

rodekyll · « **Reply #67 on:** July 27, 2016, 08:38:21 PM »

Oh, my!

ab·o·rig·i·ne

/ˌabəˈrijənē/

noun

noun: aborigine; plural noun: aborigines
a person, animal, or plant that has been in a country or region from earliest times.

It's standard English. If you go from that to "racist pig", then please do add me to your ignore list, on account of having an educated conversation with you would be impossible.

Mike Tashjian · « **Reply #68 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:12:14 PM »

I am not a fan of removing the Evap system either. The system should work fine if you just do not overfill your fuel tank. I for one do not want gas fumes in my nice heated garage space where my bikes are coddled all Winter(seems like 6 months most years). Mike

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #69 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:12:19 PM »

The inline valve being talked about is likely NOT a tipover valve. There is a pressure valve or one way valve in there. The tipover valve 'rattles'.

Quote from: rodekyll on July 27, 2016, 03:05:19 PM

If that's the case, then it's not a carbon canister problem. It's a problem of overfilling the tank. Why blame the carbon can on rider error?

Trust me, my late model bikes keep the canister. They keep the fuel smell down in the garage. I soaked my Stelvio canister and I had to put up with poor starting for a month. Not sure of a good way to purge them clear other than days of riding at low speed (high vacuum).

timonbik · « **Reply #70 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:49:38 PM »

I removed mine on my Ducati and I will do the same on the Breva during its nest service. Your garage will not fill with fumes and the smell of gas will not permeate your home. Motorcycles, cars, lawnmowers etc have not had canisters for years with no garages blowing up. The only issue that I can think of with regard toe canister removal would be in California due to their stricter emission regulations.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #71 on:** July 27, 2016, 10:35:20 PM »

Quote from: timonbik on July 27, 2016, 09:49:38 PM

I removed mine on my Ducati and I will do the same on the Breva during its nest service. Your garage will not fill with fumes and the smell of gas will not permeate your home. Motorcycles, cars, lawnmowers etc have not had canisters for years with no garages blowing up. The only issue that I can think of with regard toe canister removal would be in California due to their stricter emission regulations.

I've had multiple motorcycles for years (decades) It does make a difference. Admittedly small. Mostly my riding gear near a freely vented bike would acquire the smell.

Or maybe that we from me.

fossil · « **Reply #72 on:** July 28, 2016, 01:12:53 AM »

This discussion is funny. Reminds me of countless discussion on boating forums regarding the VRO oiling system that was used on the old Evinrude/Johnson outboard engines. The system was well-engineered and bulletproof, but it was regarded as causation of all bad things that could happen: blown engines, hangovers, Tsunamis,...

Mr Revhead · « **Reply #73 on:** July 28, 2016, 02:08:09 AM »

I might have missed a detail or two....
But if you suspect a fuel issue, have you tried removing a plug after a failed crank to see if it's wet and if you can smell petrol from the plug hole? If there's no smell and plugs are dry, there's no fuel.

Do these things have a separate cam and crank sensor? or just the one?
I ask because I recently had another vehicle with the same symptoms and it turned out to be a faulty cam sensor. Engine would only fire once the crank had done enough revolutions for the ecu to work out where everything was as it wasn't receiving the more often cam sensor signal.

Aaron D. · « **Reply #74 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:08:45 AM »

Occasional over-filling does happen-the system should be able to handle it but this one didn't I guess, and the Vespa deal is nearly universal on the carbed 4 strokes. No odors at all.

Overfilling a Scout causes the bike to pee gas on the ground.

Kev m · « **Reply #75 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:17:15 AM »

Fwiw, I fill mine on the centerstand and top it off all the time and never had a problem. Something is not right, but I guess that something could have been the canister itself.

Aaron D. · « **Reply #76 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:35:12 AM »

Not to keep pounding, but carbed Vespas had a green thing that was intended to keep one from overfilling-but it was not well understood and many people removed it as it made filling difficult for those used to watching the fuel level.

Ours was left in. But overfilling still occurred.

pat80flh · « **Reply #77 on:** July 28, 2016, 11:31:11 AM »

So OP says plugs were not fouled, so the canister was not full of gas. which leads me to believe there was a tank vent issue. Which is probably still present.

OP, make sure none of the lines you disconnected have vacuum present with engine running.

timonbik · « **Reply #78 on:** July 28, 2016, 12:13:28 PM »

I don't understand why people REFUSE to accept the canister as the culprit. OP says bike is problematic when it is hot. Disconnect canister and bike starts fine. Sounds like the canister is the problem to me. OP, disconnect the darn thing and go riding. Enjoy.

Tom · « **Reply #79 on:** July 28, 2016, 01:15:01 PM »

IF it's something else. It'll show it's nasty head. If not then should be clear sailing. Save the stuff that's removed. When you sell the bike give it to the next owner. If the bike ends up in California the next owner will have to put it back on to conform CARB regulations.

Kev m · « **Reply #80 on:** July 28, 2016, 01:57:16 PM »

Quote from: timonbik on July 28, 2016, 12:13:28 PM

I don't understand why people REFUSE to accept the canister as the culprit. OP says bike is problematic when it is hot. Disconnect canister and bike starts fine. Sounds like the canister is the problem to me. OP, disconnect the darn thing and go riding. Enjoy.

I don't see anyone refusing to accept what has happened.

A few are questioning whether or not the problem with the canister was the canister itself or if it was a symptom of another problem.

But like Tom says, if it's the latter, it will reveal itself eventually.

robdrobd · « **Reply #81 on:** July 28, 2016, 02:35:53 PM »

Quote from: Kev m on July 28, 2016, 01:57:16 PM

I don't see anyone refusing to accept what has happened.

A few are questioning whether or not the problem with the canister was the canister itself or if it was a symptom of another problem.

But like Tom says, if it's the latter, it will reveal itself eventually.

Well, at least if something does happen I'll have at least two strong opposing opinions to base my next decision on.

Kev m · « **Reply #82 on:** July 28, 2016, 04:21:54 PM »

Quote from: robdrobd on July 28, 2016, 02:35:53 PM

Well, at least if something does happen I'll have at least two strong opposing opinions to base my next decision on.

Tom · « **Reply #83 on:** July 28, 2016, 05:08:58 PM »

Uh....."If it ain't broke. Don't fix it."

Kev m · « **Reply #84 on:** July 28, 2016, 05:58:05 PM »

Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2016, 05:08:58 PM

Uh....."If it ain't broke. Don't fix it."

EGG-ZACTLY WHY the canister is STILL ON our 696 and V7!

fotoguzzi · « **Reply #85 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:46:01 PM »

time for this again?

Tom · « **Reply #86 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:56:09 PM »

Hangover 3. Alan's giraffe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS3KzwmU8Tg

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Author Topic: Poor Starting Frequently (Read 14415 times)

robdrobd

beetle

Wildguzzi.com

robdrobd

beetle

robdrobd