Re-seating tire after tube change, how much pressure is OK?

[brider]

My tire-balance guy wouldn't balance my rear tire after I changed the tube because it hadn't seated completely in an area about 1/3 around on the side I broke down to do the tube swap.

So I deflated it, popped the bead down from the rim, soaked the bead all around with soapy water, then re-inflated it to 50 psi to try to seat it.

It didn't seat completely again, so I just left it there, thinking the soapy bead might slowly pop up under pressure after a while.

Can I try more pressure? It's a Shinko 120/90-18 rear tire.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If this is on the early "lead/butter" cast alloy wheels, then you're going to need more pressure. It's not optimum, but that's the only way I've managed to get them to seat. Oh, and Windex instead of soapy water. I don't know why it works better than anything else (in this instance) but it does. Helps too if you can get the tire as warm as possible (let it sit in the sun).

[oldbike54]

 "Lead/butter" ,  That's funny Charlie .

 I've gone to 60 LBS W/O any trouble , just don't leave it that high very long , otherwise what Charlie says 

 Dusty

[brider]

Lead/butter??? I don't get it, should I know this joke? It's a cast Cal 2 rear wheel, yes.

Side topic: What's that big external circlip for on the spline-side of the wheel, around the OUTSIDE of the bearing housing on that side?

[malik]

I've had (tubed) tyres up as high as 100psi on occasion. Bead goop & warmth help. Bouncing the super inflated wheel around the lot, while satisfying, rarely helps. But it does help keep the frustration within bounds - just don't let it get away from you.

[Sheepdog]

Even with the liberal use of Ruglide, it took over 75psi to seat the Michelin Activ front on my Vintage recently. I always remove the valve core when seating tires as a safety measure. I use a heat gun (on "low") to heat my bead/sidewall and copiously lather down the beads with tire lube. I let the pressure build to my predetermined limit and then remove the chuck. The open valve stem allows a rapid pressure drop. Remember to keep your fingers away from the bead/sidewall juncture...

[Toecutter]

"as much as it takes".

Pump it til it seats, then relieve the pressure right away.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Lead/butter??? I don't get it, should I know this joke? It's a cast Cal 2 rear wheel, yes.

Side topic: What's that big external circlip for on the spline-side of the wheel, around the OUTSIDE of the bearing housing on that side?

Courtesy of Mike Tiberio: "heavy as lead, soft as butter". 

Holds the steel bearing carrier into the cast alloy wheel.

[brider]

Courtesy of Mike Tiberio: "heavy as lead, soft as butter". 

Holds the steel bearing carrier into the cast alloy wheel.

Lead/butter, I get it.

Thanks to all for the reminder about leaving the valve core out, 'been a long time since I did it myself. I'll lube it back up tonight and give it a try.

I assume I DON'T have to remove the steel carrier to replace the bearing?

[n3303j]

Had problems mounting Michelin Pilot Activ on the cast wheels of my '81 BMW R100. The rim required a tube.

I do use RuGlyde for installation. I did hit 100 psi  to get one set seated. Didn't like doing that.

Next time around I made a point of really cleaning up the rims. Power wire brush followed with 600 grit wet/dry and finished with Scotch Brite on every surface the bead had to slide over.

That set of Michelins popped into place at 50 psi.

Smooth up the rims and tires will install easier (and tubeless will seal better).

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I assume I DON'T have to remove the steel carrier to replace the bearing?

No, you do not remove the steel carrier.

[brider]

Removed the core, used Charlie's trick of Windex, and "Bob's yer uncle", it popped right on.

Funny thing: My wife is re-finishing a table in the garage right now, and we happened to be both stealing 20 min from chores inside after dinner to knock some work out. As usually happens, she starts talking to me non-stop while I'm trying to listen to the Sox-Yankees game and do the tire. Right when she asked a question that I couldn't dodge, the air compressor blasted on and bailed me out. She of course complained about that, but at least I had a good excuse for saying "What was the question again??"

[redhawk47]

After the bead seats I let all of the air pressure out and then re-inflate the tire. My theory is that there are un-even stresses from the bead seating stretching and releasing the pressure lets them even out. Just my theory, don't know if it is true. But it makes me feel better.

[Dukedesmo]

The rough surface of the cast alloys on my LM2 make tyre fitting a real pig of a job, not helped by narrow and rigid (Sport Demon) tyres.


I do my own changes but had to take one to my local bike shop last year as I was at danger of serious breakage/injury, it stalled his motorised changer and needed 2 people to assist it.


I now get the tyre as warm as possible and use loads of tyre soap but it's still a major ball-ache, both the removing the old (probably easier to cut it off?) and fitting the new. Seating the beads is a royal PITA too, I needed 100psi+ to get one to seat correctly and even then it didn't pop into place, rather slowly eased in.


Contrast that with modern tyres; I've fitted a rear to my 916 using just cable ties and my hands, but everything is in my favour there with a smooth wheel and soft, flexible tyre which is wide enough to deform to get it onto the rim.

[john fish]

Oh, and Windex instead of soapy water. I don't know why it works better than anything else (in this instance) but it does.

Another vote for Windex.  It's also a great hand cleaner.  As for psi, my garage air compressor only goes up to about 50 psi and I've had to use our considerably more powerful compressor at work a few tomes.  Scared me a bit but did work.  Figured I really didn't have another option.

[yogidozer]

How much is too much?

[brider]

After the bead seats I let all of the air pressure out and then re-inflate the tire.  But it makes me feel better.

Did that, and I feel better, too. The Windex gets my 

[JohninVT]

I've seen a motorcycle tire let go at 70lbs.  I would never, ever, ever inflate a motorcycle tire to 100psi.  It ranks right up there with changing car strut springs in a vice in terms of taking your life into your own hands.  If you need to inflate the tire that high to seat it then something is wrong. 

A lot of TW200 owners mount ATV tires on the rear.  They do everything from trimming the bead to inflating them to extremely high pressure and letting them sit in the sun for several days.  When I mounted one I laid a 6' x 8' section of chain link fence over the wheel with 8 ratchet straps at the corners, hooked to steel posts in my garage.  With a ton of dish soap the bead set at 75psi and I breathed a huge sigh of relief. 

Here's a little video that shows what happens when a tire is over inflated during mounting(P.S. the wheel usually hits you right in the face):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRQhCph_wMk
   

[yogidozer]

I've seen a motorcycle tire let go at 70lbs.  I would never, ever, ever inflate a motorcycle tire to 100psi.  It ranks right up there with changing car strut springs in a vice in terms of taking your life into your own hands.  If you need to inflate the tire that high to seat it then something is wrong. 

A lot of TW200 owners mount ATV tires on the rear.  They do everything from trimming the bead to inflating them to extremely high pressure and letting them sit in the sun for several days.  When I mounted one I laid a 6' x 8' section of chain link fence over the wheel with 8 ratchet straps at the corners, hooked to steel posts in my garage.  With a ton of dish soap the bead set at 75psi and I breathed a huge sigh of relief. 

Here's a little video that shows what happens when a tire is over inflated during mounting(P.S. the wheel usually hits you right in the face):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRQhCph_wMk
   

Wife: "How was your day, honey?"
Husband: "Oh, I had a blast!"

[Chuck in Indiana]

I think it is mandatory to clean and inspect the wheels prior to mounting and seating and use a good lub.

Mike beat me to it, but I spend a fair amount of time with Scotch Brite and whatever's necessary to clean up the rims. Normally, the bead seats at a little over 40 lbs in my experience.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Mike beat me to it, but I spend a fair amount of time with Scotch Brite and whatever's necessary to clean up the rims. Normally, the bead seats at a little over 40 lbs in my experience.

Had problems mounting Michelin Pilot Activ on the cast wheels of my '81 BMW R100. The rim required a tube.

I do use RuGlyde for installation. I did hit 100 psi  to get one set seated. Didn't like doing that.

Next time around I made a point of really cleaning up the rims. Power wire brush followed with 600 grit wet/dry and finished with Scotch Brite on every surface the bead had to slide over.

That set of Michelins popped into place at 50 psi.

Smooth up the rims and tires will install easier (and tubeless will seal better).

I've cleaned and Scotchbrited until my fingers were raw with little difference in the amount of pressure it needed to seat. Borrani spoked rims? Easy peasy. Early Tonti cast wheels? Always a fight no matter how I prep them or how I do it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

We may be talking apples and oranges, but the only early Tonti cast rims I've done have been old small blocks. No problemo..

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

We may be talking apples and oranges, but the only early Tonti cast rims I've done have been old small blocks. No problemo..

Small-block rims don't seem to be as difficult. Big-block (especially the "bent spoke" type for some reason) cast wheels always are. 

[Tusayan]

I've cleaned and Scotchbrited until my fingers were raw with little difference in the amount of pressure it needed to seat. Borrani spoked rims? Easy peasy. Early Tonti cast wheels? Always a fight no matter how I prep them or how I do it.

Yes....  The only time in 'a million' miles I've had to fix a flat on the side of the road was with an early LM rear wheel, in a remote area.  Imagine my surprise when I found a small motorcycle accessory store with tubes on the shelf was a block away, and a gas station with an air hose even closer.  Imagine my further surprise when I popped every tube they had trying to seat the bead, until the last one which worked with lots of lubrication and knowing what pressure would likely pop the tube.

[ed.bremner]

Hey thanks for that thread....

made me feel much better,   had my guzzi over 30 years and do all the spannering;  the one job I hate more than any other is changing tyres.  The new tubeless tyres are just so hard to get the bead to fully seat.  Some are not so bad, but the last ones drove me to total distraction.  Even after applying up to 100psi topping out my compressor, they still wouldn't go.  In the end I got one to seat and as I let off the pressure, the tube ripped.

In the end I gave up and took it in.  But the concept of doing this on the roadside is just diabolical! 

Just got a Ducati 350 Scrambler with the same Borrani rims.  Not looking forward to trying to changing those either.

later

eib

[Groover]

Small-block rims don't seem to be as difficult. Big-block (especially the "bent spoke" type for some reason) cast wheels always are.

It's because the ones you mention have the CP (Contre Pente) contour designed to lock the tire in better in the event of a fast flat - or so is my understanding. The cast wheels on my '81 G5 have that profile and they are stamped CP2 on the wheels (not sure what the 2 means, but likely a slightly different contour in that same direction) - which in my opinion makes these wheels safe to run tubeless (as long as you can get the valve seat to seal properly) - of course, do at your own risk.







Edit: I did have some info on the CP2 squirreled away. Means double Contre Pente, which explains even more why these are so difficult to seat (my front took over 100psi to seat, no tube though)

[Chuck in Indiana]

Small-block rims don't seem to be as difficult. Big-block (especially the "bent spoke" type for some reason) cast wheels always are.

Thanks for the warning..  If Austin finds one that needs the tires changed I'll have to "go wax my dog" or something. 

[John Croucher]

Lay the wheel - tire in sun and let it warm up.  I use wheel bearing grease.  Just enough to moisten rubber. Cleaning tire of all mold flash helps.  I use a green  scotch bright pad to remove all mold marks. I put a tire on my wheels in March and they have not lost any pressure since.  Spoked wheels sealed and tubeless tires.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Lay the wheel - tire in sun and let it warm up.  I use wheel bearing grease.  Just enough to moisten rubber. Cleaning tire of all mold flash helps.  I use a green  scotch bright pad to remove all mold marks. I put a tire on my wheels in March and they have not lost any pressure since.  Spoked wheels sealed and tubeless tires.

What did you use to seal the spoked wheels, John?

[brider]

Edit: I did have some info on the CP2 squirreled away. Means double Contre Pente, which explains even more why these are so difficult to seat (my front took over 100psi to seat, no tube though)

Mine also has the CP2 stamp. I was able to get the bead to seat at something far less that 100 psi, and it was liberally lubed with Windex. Might have been my Shinko tire, but this info is good to know for future reference. I figure I have maybe 5k left on that tire, think I'll switch to an Avon next.