Final Drive seal failure again

[tonUPRacer]

So my final drive seal is caput once more. 2013 V7 Racer, was originally replaced under warranty by Jim at Rose Farm, now with about 14K on the clock she blew out again. I'll be taking it to my new local dealer Metro Motorcycles here in Neenah, I also need new fork boots since mine have started to disintegrate. I was really hoping to have a full riding season with no issues but it was not to be. Maybe next year.

[malik]

You are not putting full synthetic in the final drive, are you? I have found synthetic 140 tends to leak out past the seal. Fixed by using mineral 85w140 with a dash of Nulon G70 to thicken the mix. Now only has an occasional small leak on sustained day in day out riding, then degreaser & hose & it goes away.

[Toecutter]

Mine blew twice, was completely rebuilt twice....and I finally had to get the bevel box replaced entirely. First time was around the 6000 km mark. Second was at 20,000.


No issues since it was replaced. Assembly issue? Flawed casting/ machining? I dunno… but new seals didn't do anything to help with the original bevel box.

[tonUPRacer]

You are not putting full synthetic in the final drive, are you? I have found synthetic 140 tends to leak out past the seal. Fixed by using mineral 85w140 with a dash of Nulon G70 to thicken the mix. Now only has an occasional small leak on sustained day in day out riding, then degreaser & hose & it goes away.

yes full syn. thanks for the tip!

[tonUPRacer]

Mine blew twice, was completely rebuilt twice....and I finally had to get the bevel box replaced entirely. First time was around the 6000 km mark. Second was at 20,000.


No issues since it was replaced. Assembly issue? Flawed casting/ machining? I dunno… but new seals didn't do anything to help with the original bevel box.

I really don't want to go down that road, how much did that cost?

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm normally a syn kind of guy.. but.. Sean Fader, ace Guzzi wrench, told me to not run it in the small block rear drive. So I don't. The inner seal doesn't seem to agree with synthetics.

[Roebling3]

Hmmm. Elsewhere on this list of merrymen there's a debate, if you will, over preferences for chains vs shaft drives.

I like both for whatever purpose is at hand. . . . but I tell you brothers & sisters; my VFR was a hoot anyway you slice it. SSSA and chain drive. Hardly a care in the world heading out on a long trip. And devotees of shaft drives need only learn from more than a few bmw drivers about FD failures. BTDT, more than once. We all wish to be credible, no? I've had as many as 6 MG's at one time. I have sold and bought more. Still have 4 including a V7 III. - - - But never another bmw. PS: Plus it's the friends we keep.  Good fortune,  R3~ 

[Toecutter]

I really don't want to go down that road, how much did that cost?

All done under warranty... the second time it went to shit, they were going to rebuild it again, I flat out refused.

[guzzisteve]

If it fails more than 1 time the hub that seal rides on is too small or the hub is moving side to side. Sometimes the parts are on the margin of specs.

[voncrump]

My V7 has sprung a leak in the drive.
It is a month out of warranty and has covered 10500km.
I have serviced the bike myself and in our market that can cause trouble with any warranty claims anyway.
So I ordered seals etc and got stuck into it.
The large seal was leaking and the seal surface was not very good.
A type of etched corrosion mark was evident.
No external rust on the surface so I suspect some type of moisture was trapped in the seal and between the bike being built mid 2015 and me purchasing it, July 2016 it etched the surface.
A polish on the lathe seems to have restored it.
However I discovered another issue in the drive.
I am giving the dealer and importer a chance to put this right for me even though it is out of warranty.
In the meantime in fairness to them I am not going to disclose the issue.

Cheers, voncrump




Etched seal surface after light clean.

[voncrump]

I can’t seem to find the torque settings for the 6 of 8mm Allen screws that hold the crown wheel on to the carrier. And also what thread lock to use.
I may have to start another post to find this info.
But here goes.
Cheers, voncrump

[guzzisteve]

My books all read the same for crown wheel 40-42nm or 4-4.2kgm or 30-31ftlbs, I used blue loktite.

[voncrump]

My books all read the same for crown wheel 40-42nm or 4-4.2kgm or 30-31ftlbs, I used blue loktite.

Thank you guzzisteve. I have got a V50 V65 manual somewhere but I can’t find it at the moment.
Cheers, voncrump

[rodekyll]

Only torque that amount with grade 10.9 or better.

[guzzisteve]

I was going to ask if the newer stuff had hard bolts on the crown gear, I use snoor(?) lock washers also.
I noticed the crown gear is also called pinion in the newer manuals from 07 on, how can you have 2 pinions and no crown.

[Litre1000]

So my final drive seal is caput once more. 2013 V7 Racer, was originally replaced under warranty by Jim at Rose Farm, now with about 14K on the clock she blew out again. I'll be taking it to my new local dealer Metro Motorcycles here in Neenah, I also need new fork boots since mine have started to disintegrate. I was really hoping to have a full riding season with no issues but it was not to be. Maybe next year.

How was it that Rose Farm was able to do warranty repairs? I didn’t think they were still a recognized dealer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tonUPRacer]

How was it that Rose Farm was able to do warranty repairs? I didn’t think they were still a recognized dealer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The repair was completed in 2014 when Jim was still selling new bikes and an auth. dealer.

[tonUPRacer]

I dropped the bike off at Metro Motorcycle this weekend. It will be at least a week before they even get a chance to look at it. I'll post an update when I have new information.

[Frulk]

TURacer. Please keep us updated. My 2014 V7R with approx 6k miles on it had the rear seal start leaking and I had it replaced by a local shop that hired the mechanic from the Guzzi dealer that went under a while back.  I�ll be interested in any additional posts to this thread.

[Diploman]

I replaced the large oil seal in my 1980 V50II's bevel box just before putting the bike on the road in July of last year after a major update. After the first several hundred miles I was annoyed to find spotting on the drive side of the rear wheel - nothing serious and debilitating,, and not enough leakage to contaminate the rear rotor, but definitely a few random drips with each outing.  I was considering replacing the seal - again - this winter, although the problem was minor enough to live with.  An annoyance, though.

I am quite aware of the tendency of vintage bikes not to play nicely with synthetic lubes, and I avoid using the latter.  However, after reading Malik's post above, I went out to check my bevel box lube, just to be sure.  I was astonished to find on the bottle: "Valvolene 75-140 FULL SYN".  I must have overlooked the SYN label when buying the oil, because I certainly would not have purchased it wittingly.

I immediately drained the bevel box and bought a bottle of Valvolene 85-140 Heavy Duty.  Strictly Dino.  Filled the box, and now have ridden over 500 miles since, without finding the slightest drop or other sign of leakage.  Wheels clean, no weepage from the bevel box.  Problem solved.  I add my voice to those who advise against synthetic lube in older bevel boxes.  Vintage seals do indeed like a diet of pure Dino.

[guzzi4me]

This is what confuses me about the rear drive spec for the V7II.

The manual states GL-4 or GL-5. No mention of needing to be synthetic.

However Pete Roper states that Guzzi recommends synth for all fluids.

As the rear drive hasn't changed much in years don't see why Guzzi would spec synth. Maybe newer type seals? I have noticed a bit of "weeping" after a spirited ride but nothing that I would be concerned about.

Of course I use the 10w-60 synth in the engine. No problems at all.

Gearbox has synth, also with no leaks.

So....for the rear drive stay with synth or go to regular gear oil? Maybe Yak Fat would be best???

Sorry for asking yet another oil question... plan on putting on a lot of miles on Olivia and want to use what's best!!

Ride safe and often,

Jeff

[Chuck in Indiana]

This is what confuses me about the rear drive spec for the V7II.

The manual states GL-4 or GL-5. No mention of needing to be synthetic.

However Pete Roper states that Guzzi recommends synth for all fluids.

As the rear drive hasn't changed much in years don't see why Guzzi would spec synth. Maybe newer type seals? I have noticed a bit of "weeping" after a spirited ride but nothing that I would be concerned about.

Of course I use the 10w-60 synth in the engine. No problems at all.

Gearbox has synth, also with no leaks.

So....for the rear drive stay with synth or go to regular gear oil? Maybe Yak Fat would be best???

Sorry for asking yet another oil question... plan on putting on a lot of miles on Olivia and want to use what's best!!

Ride safe and often,

Jeff

Sean has forgotten more than I'll ever know about Guzzis..

I'm normally a syn kind of guy.. but.. Sean Fader, ace Guzzi wrench, told me to not run it in the small block rear drive. So I don't. The inner seal doesn't seem to agree with synthetics.

[Toecutter]

This is what confuses me about the rear drive spec for the V7II.

The manual states GL-4 or GL-5. No mention of needing to be synthetic.

However Pete Roper states that Guzzi recommends synth for all fluids.

As the rear drive hasn't changed much in years don't see why Guzzi would spec synth. Maybe newer type seals? I have noticed a bit of "weeping" after a spirited ride but nothing that I would be concerned about.

Of course I use the 10w-60 synth in the engine. No problems at all.

Gearbox has synth, also with no leaks.

So....for the rear drive stay with synth or go to regular gear oil? Maybe Yak Fat would be best???

Sorry for asking yet another oil question... plan on putting on a lot of miles on Olivia and want to use what's best!!

Ride safe and often,

Jeff

YMMV, of course, but that "weeping" that is nothing to be concerned about, is *exactly* how it started with mine the first time... just a bit of "sweating", evident along the edge of the bevel box. Then it was "just a bit" of evidence on the wall of the tire. Then it "just a bit" of fluid hanging from the bottom of the bevel box.

...then it was a soaked rear tire.

The second time it went, was mid 5000 km trip, and it was full-on slinging oil all over the rear tire.

I'd say that any "weeping" is a sign that something's wrong, and needs to be fixed.

[tonUPRacer]

YMMV, of course, but that "weeping" that is nothing to be concerned about, is *exactly* how it started with mine the first time... just a bit of "sweating", evident along the edge of the bevel box. Then it was "just a bit" of evidence on the wall of the tire. Then it "just a bit" of fluid hanging from the bottom of the bevel box.

...then it was a soaked rear tire.

The second time it went, was mid 5000 km trip, and it was full-on slinging oil all over the rear tire.

I'd say that any "weeping" is a sign that something's wrong, and needs to be fixed.

I had no evidence of weeping, I commute nearly every day so I'd notice. Mine went from dry to full on tire soaker.

[tonUPRacer]

An update, just heard back from dealer, they said yes, complete seal failure. So $3.00 part and I'll be back on the road hopefully soon.

[rodekyll]

Seal failure or failure to seal?

I suspect that the seal isn't the problem.  Something is out of spec or wobbly.

[bigbikerrick]

Reading this , considering what someone posted about a VFR,and having experienced a couple of rear drive seal failures, myself, chain drive looks better every day. My son has put over 25K miles on X ring chains on 2 different R1's only wiping the outside of chain with wd 40 soaked rag, and a light spritz of chain wax about every couple of months.
Thats it!
 
I would actually prefer a modern ,top quality x ring chain, to a shaft/bevel box, in most instances.
Not to mention....the added benefit of easy gear ratio changes, and I think its a win win.

 Chains have come a long ways since the old chains from the 70s that I used to submerge in a coffee can of melted grease ,on top of my moms stove, (when she wasnt home...of course! )
Rick.

[tonUPRacer]

Seal failure or failure to seal?

I suspect that the seal isn't the problem.  Something is out of spec or wobbly.

They said it was the seal was cracked. I had about 12K miles on it, so I'm not sure what was out of spec or wobbly. If it fails again, then I guess I'm having to replace more than a seal.

[Vagrant]

I'd take the seal to a local bearing house and see if it can be substituted with  US made double lip seal. I suspect the stock one is a lowest bidder unit and sucks!

[tonUPRacer]

Picked the bike up from Metro Motorcycles this weekend. Everything looks good, new seal in place, new fork boots installed as well as fork seals, new brake pads. All set for some fall riding! If your bike needs service and your in Wisconsin, I'd recommend them. They also carry Ural and Beta and they usually have some trials bikes on the floor too!