Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TN Mark on August 07, 2018, 09:31:01 PM
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I've been looking at a couple Moto Guzzi motorcycles lately. Not looking to buy at this point, just curious. I rode Moto Guzzi bikes for over 35 years at one point. But their red and black Eldorado and the MGX-21 are interesting motorcycles. Not sure I could really go from a mildly tuned Victory 106 to a Guzzi 1400cc though.
I don't really know the overall size differences between Piaggio and Polaris. But their social impact difference is quite sizable. It's very easy to see and get information on what's going on and where they're doing what with Moto Guzzi via social media with Facebook, an app and email notification. It's also interesting that for the third year in a row, Moto Guzzi is front and center at Sturgis with test rides and deals on new bikes a plenty. Yes, I know Polaris Indian is also their. But Moto Guzzi isn't pretending to be anyone but themselves while Polaris Indian is trying to convince people they go back to 1901.
So yea, there isn't another Moto Guzzi in my immediate future. Though I am holding out hope that for their centennial in 2021, Guzzi will have something closer to an 1800cc engine, more accessories and a better dealer network. Plus maybe another bagger to go along with the MGX-21 or a touring bike with better touring capabilities than their current CA Tourer.
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Agree, I don't see a match for you from low revving Victory to free revving Guzzi. I haven't seen any hint about a 1800 sized bike either.
I'd say that Victory is on the other side of spectrum from Guzzi insofar as riding styles for Touring Cruisers.
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Did you ride the 1400CC or just speculation? My 1400CC concours would let you know what it thought about the 106.
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Yes, you're right. But I also know that the majority of responses they get from the crowd at Sturgis is telling them what they already know.
1. Bigger engine
2. More accessories
3. More two up room
4. Dealer network
5. More accessories
Though I'm thrilled at Piaggio for bringing and featuring the MGX-21 at Sturgis for three years in a row. Though the Sturgis crowd and the moto media most certainly expect updates and additional options (color) from three years ago.
The Victory, for a big air/oil cooled twin does like to spin a bit. They're happiest between 3200 and 5200. The 106 is an overhead cam with 4 valve heads afterall. If you were to ride and shift one like an H-D or a Polaris Indian, you'd be severely lugging the engine.
What a bummer though that no one makes a big bore kit and performance cams for the Guzzi. There's simply no replacement for displacement.
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Did you ride the 1400CC or just speculation? My 1400CC concours would let you know what it thought about the 106.
I rode a CA Touring 1400 and the Eldorado. Yes, the Guzzi is peppy but after having 114 rear wheel hp and torque. Well, that pep is nice but so are higher numbers. The Victory 106 will run all day long at 80 mph in 6th gear at 3000 rpm and return 42 mpg. One up, two up, bags and trunk full or empty, it doesn't care.
Yes, and I suspect your Kawasaki Concours 1400 is miles apart from the Guzzi 1400 as well. Am I right?
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Isn't a 1400 Guzzi already faster than the big American twins ?
Dusty
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Back when Polaris was making Victory, I owned and put 25,000 happy miles on a Kingpin Tour Deluxe. It had the 100 c.i. engine and was rated for 100 h.p. I felt the rating was a little optimistic. But, it was a powerful machine. I now have the 1400 Cal. They are very different machines. The Guzzi is much sportier to ride and leans into turns with more enthusiasm. I also feel that the suspension is a little more supple on the Cal. I liked the Vic and respected its abilities, but would stop short of calling it love. In only 8,000 miles, I feel much more attached to this Guzzi in a way I used to feel about my Harleys.
As for 1800 cc Guzzi, don't expect that, MG just doesn't roll that way.
Ride what you like, its all good.
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I just saw an e mail yesterday about a summer blowout special of 3,800 bucks!
From the add:
"Our summer promos are heating up, and our dealers nationwide are eager to get you rolling in style. Rush to your local Moto Guzzi dealer where you will find huge savings, up to $3,800 off MSRP, on select 1400cc and 1200cc models in stock. Ask you dealer about the “Summer Clean Up Event” for details."
This ought to be a pretty good incentive to someone out there.
John Henry
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I rode a CA Touring 1400 and the Eldorado. Yes, the Guzzi is peppy but after having 114 rear wheel hp and torque. Well, that pep is nice but so are higher numbers. The Victory 106 will run all day long at 80 mph in 6th gear at 3000 rpm and return 42 mpg. One up, two up, bags and trunk full or empty, it doesn't care.
Yes, and I suspect your Kawasaki Concours 1400 is miles apart from the Guzzi 1400 as well. Am I right?
I was just pointing out that displacement isn't everything. I have been to every Victory demo event since they were introduced. I have ridden them all. The only bikes that appealed to me out of their lineup were the Hard Ball and the High Ball. If they would have made a bike to compete with the Road Glide and Vulcan Voyager that didn't look like it was from outer space I may have had one in my garage. Save goes for Indian. I love the look, but they don't make anything i am interested in buying at the moment.
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Yes, you're right. But I also know that the majority of responses they get from the crowd at Sturgis is telling them what they already know.
1. Bigger engine
2. More accessories
3. More two up room
4. Dealer network
5. More accessories
Though I'm thrilled at Piaggio for bringing and featuring the MGX-21 at Sturgis for three years in a row. Though the Sturgis crowd and the moto media most certainly expect updates and additional options (color) from three years ago.
The Victory, for a big air/oil cooled twin does like to spin a bit. They're happiest between 3200 and 5200. The 106 is an overhead cam with 4 valve heads afterall. If you were to ride and shift one like an H-D or a Polaris Indian, you'd be severely lugging the engine.
What a bummer though that no one makes a big bore kit and performance cams for the Guzzi. There's simply no replacement for displacement.
I hope that Guzzi never builds a motor like a Victory. I don't favor a bigger engine, just more RPMs.
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Isn't a 1400 Guzzi already faster than the big American twins ?
Dusty
I haven't ridden the new water cooled Harleys but up to those models, I would agree with you, at least in stock form. Additionally, I've ridden the Victory touring models, the big Indians and even the Kawasaki Glide-clone. None of them rev like a Guzzi. It possible that some may be as fast but certainly aren't sportier. The Polaris products have the most abrupt rev limiters and more extreme riding positions. The Harleys have a nice balance. But none are as sporty as the 1400.
If Guzzi would bring out a 1400 with mid mounts in a sportier touring package, I'd be a customer.
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Any well running Guzzi 1100 will run 80mph two up loaded for touring! Mileage will vary 35-45, rpm will be closer to 4 than 3, but so what?
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:tongue:
My Suzuki S-40 will run all day long @ 80mph and return 52 mpg … Bags , top box , shield included , and also ride two-up also w/small drop in mpg …
how much "Extra" HP does a person need anyway ? :huh:
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:tongue:
My Suzuki S-40 will run all day long @ 80mph and return 52 mpg … Bags , top box , shield included , and also ride two-up also w/small drop in mpg …
how much "Extra" HP does a person need anyway ? :huh:
Need? Zero. But, remember that for the majority these are toys for big boys. Bragging rights come into play.
My FZ-07 consistently returned 60 MPG and was quick enough to loft the front tire if you quickly opened the throttle to full open.
My Concours 1400 was a comfortable sport tourer that was stupid quick and returned 50 MPG if ridden conservatively.
Even my 900 lb Road Glide with the M8 engine returns 50 - 55 MPG with me on it.
Even the 600cc SS sport bikes are more powerful than one can fully legally utilize on the street, yet many insist on having 1000cc SS sport bikes if you are a 'real' rider.
I went through the same thing when looking a Sports Cars this past year. I found the Camaro SS, Mustang GT, Corvette, Porsche Boxter, and even the 370z to be overkill for driving on the public roads. They were actually boring because they were too capable to actually have fun on the twisty back roads.
I guess when it comes to cars and bikes I would rather have ones that require rider skill and effort to get the most out of them on the street. They are more engaging for the rider/driver than a car/bike that requires less effort/skill to go down the same roads at the same speeds.
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Well said, Twowheeladdict! R3~
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Bragging rights? Get a Triumph Rocket 3.
I worked at a Triumph/Victory dealer for a bit. Rode every Vic ever made. I'll take the 1400 EVERY time, with all due respect.
Heck, my 2001 Cali will run at 80 all day long. As did my Triumph 865 America.
I'm ALL for get what you want but there's no reasonable way to discount the Cali 1400 for all day two up cruising. It comes down to preference, not mechanical ability or aptitude.
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Yes, you're right. But I also know that the majority of responses they get from the crowd at Sturgis is telling them what they already know.
1. Bigger engine
2. More accessories
3. More two up room
4. Dealer network
5. More accessories
Though I'm thrilled at Piaggio for bringing and featuring the MGX-21 at Sturgis for three years in a row. Though the Sturgis crowd and the moto media most certainly expect updates and additional options (color) from three years ago.
The Victory, for a big air/oil cooled twin does like to spin a bit. They're happiest between 3200 and 5200. The 106 is an overhead cam with 4 valve heads afterall. If you were to ride and shift one like an H-D or a Polaris Indian, you'd be severely lugging the engine.
What a bummer though that no one makes a big bore kit and performance cams for the Guzzi. There's simply no replacement for displacement.
If Americans would stay within a "safe" "healthy" weight range items one and three would not be necessary. I test rode the Goldwing 1800 back in 2010 and my wife complained that the passenger accommodations were much too large for her. The seat pushed her legs outward so that she couldn't even touch me with her legs. We ended up replacing the Voyager XII with the Voyager 1700 and enjoyed 60,000 miles of touring on that bike.
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There is a reason you rode Guzzi for 35 years. Your taste and expectations have changed but I don't think Guzzi is going to meet them anytime soon.
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Your displacement argument may work with ships, but overweight motorcycles with engines that are bigger than the one in my first car only detract from my moto-paradigm. Considering your stated priorities, Guzzis probably won’t work for you.
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There is a reason you rode Guzzi for 35 years. Your taste and expectations have changed but I don't think Guzzi is going to meet them anytime soon.
You're likely right on all 3 accounts.
Yes, there was a reason I rode Moto Guzzi for 35 years. My wife didn't ride with me much, mainly due to the various Guzzis not being particularly passenger friendly. When I bought the first Honda Valkyrie Interstate and added an Ultimate King Big Boy seat, she fell in love with motorcycling again.
Yes, my tastes and expectations have most certainly changed. The Victory CCT is the first motorcycle I've ever owned I was ever content with. Not completely at first, but after a few simple performance add ons, yes. Have I changed things on it? Yes, you bet. But not to make it work for us, just because I wanted to. I have yet to find anything I've asked the big Victory to do that it hasn't done exceptionally well.
Yes, Moto Guzzi may not build my next bike. But I do miss the brand and the riders who enjoy them. Though my camping days are likely gone for good. As I posted, I admire Piaggio for not killing the brand off like Polaris did with Victory. My heart wants Moto Guzzi to build my next bike. I do think they're getting closer with the 1400 line. But for me and my riding style, none of the 1400 models could surpass anything my my current ride does. If I were a solo rider, sure. But until my wife says no more riding for her, I'll stick with what keeps us riding together. She's only 5'4" and about 130 pounds so we don't 'need' a huge motorcycle. She's happy on the Victory like she was on the Valkyrie. That means more to me than anything else motorcycle related.
The Moto Guzzi dealer network doesn't actually bother me a bit. Though losing dealers like Rose Farm and MPH is still very disappointing. The Victory dealer network was mostly useless ATV shops that had little to no interest in motorcycles. IMHO, Victory had about 6 excellent dealers around the country. But so far in 60K miles I haven't 'needed' to take it to a dealer except for tire changes. I suspect the Moto Guzzi dealer network is still the same as well, 4 to 6 real good dealers and the rest are 'also rans' at best. But like the Victory, I never 'needed' much of a dealer network with any of my Guzzis either.
The purpose of this thread though is really in the title. There's little productive in debating brands or models on a brand specific internet forum. From an outsider looking in again, I've found that Piaggio is doing an admirable job at trying to get the word out about the Moto Guzzi brand. I sincerely appreciate that. Piaggio is certainly doing more than I've ever seen from Polaris with the Victory line. I first started paying attention to Victory in about 1987 when the magazines started talking about them.
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Heck , my old worn out Jackal will run an honest 90 MPH pretty much all day long loaded down with 50 LBS of gear pushing a Pacifico Aerofoil fairing and camping gear hanging out in the wind . Of course the gas mileage drops down to 30 MPG running that fast with the aero-drag , but it is an old 1100 CC ditch pump . Honestly , it is right at my comfort limit weight wise , those 800 LB tankers on wheels simply don't appeal to me .
Dusty
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Heck , my old worn out Jackal will run an honest 90 MPH pretty much all day long loaded down with 50 LBS of gear pushing a Pacifico Aerofoil fairing and camping gear hanging out in the wind . Of course the gas mileage drops down to 30 MPG running that fast with the aero-drag , but it is an old 1100 CC ditch pump . Honestly , it is right at my comfort limit weight wise , those 800 LB tankers on wheels simply don't appeal to me .
Dusty
The only time I feel any weight from the road glide is when I am parking on uneven ground. The low center of gravity make it feel lighter than my Concours 1400 or my Triumph Trophy SE ever did.
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The only time I feel any weight from the road glide is when I am parking on uneven ground. The low center of gravity make it feel lighter than my Concours 1400 or my Triumph Trophy SE ever did.
Wait until you have a flat on a road with no shoulder .
Dusty
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I consider myself a Guzzi guy and have one as well as 2 Victorys. Yes they are different but each have their good and bad points. Cruising 2 up on the highway, hard to beat the big Vic 106 motor. It's not just about speed. Stability, comfort and reliability play a large part. The 106 is basically a maintenance free engine. Oil and filter change and ride.
Guzzi's have more personality. Reliabiity is generally good but they do have their demons, cracking exhaust pipes, wonky ignition switches, the need to remap a new bike, swing arm bearings not greased, bad lifters just to name a few. But theyare a pleasure to ride.
Dealer network for Vic is probably better than Guzzi but marginally, both being sparse and somewhat useless.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Everyone likes to take potshots at HD but 100.000's of riders can't all be wrong. A lot of very high mileage HD's out there.
Cheers, Tim
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TwoWheeladdict
GREAT ! …. :rolleyes:
Now , I'm wanting a FZ-07 !!! :laugh:
The older I get the lighter bike I want , might be on a scooter in 20 years ! :huh:
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Wait until you have a flat on a road with no shoulder .
Dusty
The Concours and Trophy had TPMS so the flats on them were alerted and I was able to get them on the center stand before deflation.
A friend of mine got a flat on his R1200RT and had to sit on the bike on the side of the road for over an hour before a tow truck showed up because he couldn't get the side stand down to be able to get off.
The road glide does lean over pretty far on the side stand. Hopefully I will be able to get it on the side stand and get away from it before some texting cager comes along. Bikes can be replaced.
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TwoWheeladdict
GREAT ! …. :rolleyes:
Now , I'm wanting a FZ-07 !!! :laugh:
The older I get the lighter bike I want , might be on a scooter in 20 years ! :huh:
The FZ-07 is an amazing motorcycle in every way except the cheap budget plastics. It weighs 400lbs wet and has like 75 HP. Suspension is a little soft but that is great for our back roads.
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Isn't a 1400 Guzzi already faster than the big American twins ?
Dusty
Yes. By far. Personal observation: I test rode the big Indian last year just for giggles, and I KNOW my 1400 would destroy it in all of the categories that are important to me. Those are: Quick revving, butter smooth transmission, smooth pull, maneuverability, handling, ground clearance, lean angle and consistency. For an 1800 or whatever it was, it seemed lacking in all of those categories to me. I can't imagine paying the $37K price tag for that thing either. However, I would not want to tour 2-up for any long distance on mine though. If I wanted a bike for that, I'd buy a Goldwing.
In honesty, the Guzzi engine smashed the others in this review: http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/baggers-brawl
From the article: “Despite giving up 300-odd cc to the others, the Guzzi killed the others in top gear roll-ons. My favorite engine by far; it produces a major torque wallop at about 4k rpm that closes the gap with whatever bike it’s behind with one quick thwarp of the throttle.” Several of the testers also praised the MGX for its “sportbike-like transmission,” too.
Some guys are just so hung up on the whole "size matters" thing, while others understand that "endurance and satisfaction" are the things that are actually important. :wink:
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^^^ Yep .
Dusty
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:tongue:
how much "Extra" HP does a person need anyway ? :huh:
All of it!
To paraphrase a Canadian chap from a car show. Do you need an extra XXXhp? of course not nobody needs it! Do you want an extra XXXhp, oh boy! yes you want it! :P
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When whacking the throttle open for a quick burst, I've never though to myself "I wish this would accelerate a bit slower". Now I have wished for more traction! :evil:
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Smithswede has said to me that sometimes not having too much HP makes us more careful .
Dusty
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I will admit. ... As long as extra weight don't come with extra HP its a good thing.
This little V 7 runs along at 80 mph just fine .
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When whacking the throttle open for a quick burst, I've never though to myself "I wish this would accelerate a bit slower". Now I have wished for more traction! :evil:
despite the OP wanting a bigger engine, according to Luap's posting, the Guzzi is much faster on the 60mph roll-on than the Indian, Harley or Victory.
Having ridden them all, I must agree. I see no reason to criticize the Guzzi engine for being smaller when it's faster.
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there is no point in a 1800cc motorcycle, unless you and your wife both weigh 250+
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Or unless you're a manufacturer like Piaggio who's gone to Sturgis for 3 years running trying to appeal to people who currently have slightly built 103", 106", 111", 117" engines etc etc etc. Many of those people are used to over 115 RWHP and torque. Some are used to over reliable v-twins engine with over 140 RWHP and torque.
So it's good to have choices. I suspect no one will be forcing more power and torque onto those who don't want it. There's nothing wrong with a 1400cc middleweight motor unless you like and are used to higher hp and torque V-twins. If Piaggio is happy with the current sales of their 1400cc line, I suspect they'll leave it as is for a while longer. If they're not satisfied with current sales numbers, perhaps they'll build a bike to compete in the big bike market. No muss, no fuss. Ride and justify whatever you desire.
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When did a 1400 CC engine become a middleweight ?
Look , most of that displacement nonsense is just that , nonsense . I don't care how big HD or Indian motors are , a 600 CC Japanese sport bike will suck the mirrors off of any of those behemoths . With big motors comes more weight and heat , if you want one of those stupid beasts , buy one . Fair enough ?
Dusty
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Or unless you're a manufacturer like Piaggio who's gone to Sturgis for 3 years running trying to appeal to people who currently have slightly built 103", 106", 111", 117" engines etc etc etc. Many of those people are used to over 115 RWHP and torque. Some are used to over reliable v-twins engine with over 140 RWHP and torque.
So it's good to have choices. I suspect no one will be forcing more power and torque onto those who don't want it. There's nothing wrong with a 1400cc middleweight motor unless you like and are used to higher hp and torque V-twins. If Piaggio is happy with the current sales of their 1400cc line, I suspect they'll leave it as is for a while longer. If they're not satisfied with current sales numbers, perhaps they'll build a bike to compete in the big bike market. No muss, no fuss. Ride and justify whatever you desire.
And the 1400 smokes all the bikes you mention. None of which make 115 HP. Guzzis are about revs, we know most cruiser guys like torque. Guzzis are Guzzis. If you want something fast, get a Guzzi. If you want something that lugs, you're fine on your Victory.
I don't think Guzzi would sell anymore Californias to the Cruiser crowd in Sturgis if they indeed made an 1800- It ain't made in Amurica. I've ridden 100+ HP Harley CVO and it shook like a jackhammer. I've ridden a Victory Vision with stage 2 kit and the limiter kicked in right when I wanted it go. Neither were sporty as a Cal 1400.
So Guzzi doesn't make an 1800? I think we knew that before the thread existed. It's a shame at Sturgis that a Cal14 didn't drag their asses.
Troll away.
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"Over reliable v twins producing over 140 Raul...". Mark, I don't think any real mfg make stock bikes that you describe.
Guzzi makes its mark by not being like the other big twins. I don't see a free reving 1800+ motor in their future.
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Or unless you're a manufacturer like Piaggio who's gone to Sturgis for 3 years running trying to appeal to people who currently have slightly built 103", 106", 111", 117" engines etc etc etc. Many of those people are used to over 115 RWHP and torque. Some are used to over reliable v-twins engine with over 140 RWHP and torque.
So it's good to have choices. I suspect no one will be forcing more power and torque onto those who don't want it. There's nothing wrong with a 1400cc middleweight motor unless you like and are used to higher hp and torque V-twins. If Piaggio is happy with the current sales of their 1400cc line, I suspect they'll leave it as is for a while longer. If they're not satisfied with current sales numbers, perhaps they'll build a bike to compete in the big bike market. No muss, no fuss. Ride and justify whatever you desire.
Mark, none of those bikes make those HP numbers without some serious cash involved. You could throw the same amount of cash at a 1400 GUZZI and have a much superior handling motorcycle. I ride a Harley Road Glide Special and what I find interesting is that guys will spend thousands of dollars to get more power out of the big cruisers, but won't spend money on what is really necessary on all those big cruisers and that is suspension upgrades. It is all about loud and proud and not really about performance.
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It is all about loud and proud and not really about performance.
I asked nephew (Harley guy) Ricky if he'd even *looked* at the new Guzzis. He just gave me the roll eye..
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A few raised tensions on here for sure. Absolutely not my intention what so ever. I started this thread to compliment Piaggio for what they're doing with Moto Guzzi on social media.
Where to start? Here we go.
A 1400cc was made middleweight the day the Triumph Rocket 3 came out with it's 2294cc torque monster of a motor. So at least since then and the normalization of engines like the 103 (1687), 106 (1737), 108 (1769), 1800 F6/1800 inline 6, 111 (1818), 113 (1854) etc.
Slightly modified, I know for fact the 106" will consistently lay down 115 in horsepower and torque to the rear wheel. By slightly modified I'm talking about a day in your own garage with $1000 worth of bolt on parts. You want 200 rear wheel horsepower and 245 foot pounds of torque from a bone stock 106? Add a blower for about $5k. Again, in your own garage with basic hand tools.
Yes, an R6 or an R1 will blow the big twins away on some roll on tests and on the highway. So what, I don't want either of those bikes, not at all. They're not my style nor are they in my comfort zone. My wife had a Honda VLX (600 twin) for a while and it was perfect for her in engine size and stature.
No one "needs" a 'big' v twin. We're talking motorcycles for fun, sport and hobby. I assume people on this forum like the v-twin engine style since that's all Moto Guzzi produces for motorcycles.
If you prefer to call a 1400cc the top end of the middleweight class, go for it. But like I posted above, it's not really in the 'big twin' class anymore. If my wife wanted to stop riding and I was getting a bit too fragile for the size and weight of my Victory Cross Country Tour, I'd very likely be going for a 1400 Moto Guzzi now. Though I did talk to a Guzzi dealer last week about purchasing an Eldorado 1400 and I'll go into that dealer this week to thank him for their effort.
A big motor for bragging rights and noise. Sorry, not me friends. But enjoy your stereotype as you see fit. Though I much preferred the Mistrals on my 1064cc Guzzis to the stock mufflers.
Suspension - Upside down forks and an easily adjusted rear air shock with plenty of suspension travel on both ends = no problem their either. Not all big twins suffer poor factory suspension.
It's about RPM, not displacement. Really? In my case, the 106 will willingly spin to 6250 before the fun is shut down. You'll never get their in the highest gear though because at 80mph in 6th gear you're only turning at 3000 rpm. 90 = 3500 rpm and 100 = 4000 rpm. Can a V7 go 80, sure it can. But I wouldn't want to ride that bike for 200 miles like that, refill and do it all over again and again and again. Not one or and certainly not two up. And my wife and I are not each 250 pounds either.
So hopefully we can all agree that Piaggio is doing a good job promoting Moto Guzzi with what they currently have to offer. Though 'I believe' going to Sturgis is more for the moto journalists than the attendees because as is clear, most of the attendees are on much 'bigger' motorcycles. But, like me, they're aging and will someday want a smaller and lighter motorcycle.
I'm also going to continue to hold out hope for Moto Guzzi to introduce a larger displacement engine. Again, if you don't want it, no problem, there are now and will continue to be plenty of available options.
Forza Moto Guzzi!
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Designing, testing, certifying, and producing a new engine design is a MAJOR expense for any manufacturer, much less a minor player like Guzzi...since so many other makers dabble in land yachts, why would they bother?
Certainly, nothing Guzzi could concieve of and build is going to change an enconomically-significant number of minds south of the Mason-Dixon line...be happy with your '106' whatever that is and let Guzzi be Guzzi...
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Thank you, I am happy with my Victory 106" v twin air/oil cooled motor. That's the engine installed in my Victory Cross Country Tour. Though like I posted, I did talk to a Guzzi dealer last week about purchasing an Eldorado 1400, in red and black.
Guzzi being Guzzi is for Piaggio to decide, not us. With each and every 'bigger' motor Moto Guzzi came out with, I suspect there were many who thought no one 'needs' that big of an engine.
I'm thankful Moto Guzzi and other brands leave it to the buyer, not anyone else, to decide what they like. Success in manufacturing motorcycles is largely determined by the number of units they make people that people want to purchase. Not what others want the buyer to want.
Enjoy your ride.
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Mark, be happy with your Victory.
Just know that a Cal 1400 will blow you off on a 60mph roll off.
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1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, roll on from whatever to whatever. So what. But be careful with challenges as an R6 will easily blow away a CA 1400 too. Plus many a big v twins are sleepers. If you were roll up on my friend with your peppy and free reving CA 1400 and think, he's on a big barcalounger etc etc etc. Go ahead, make your challenge. You may not notice his 106 is now a 116 with a supercharger tucked away down low. He's putting out over 200 RWhp and over 245 RW foot pounds of torque. Yet his bike is as easy and effortless to ride as could be. Yea, he'll be your huckleberry. You name from what speed to what speed or from what distance to what distance. If I go ahead and add a 117 big block kit mine would move up the scale to about 135/135. Yes, even many H-D's I ride with are sleepers. But they'll not challenge you, they leave that up to you.
At 60mph, my Victory is likely still in 4th gear with more go on tap. No matter how you slice it, 114 foot pounds of table top flat rear wheel torque from 1500 rpm through redline at 6250 is pretty decent. And no, my Victory is by no means what I consider a powerhouse. Nor am I a street racer of any sort. Since I don't know you, make your challenge and I'll wave you on and tell you to enjoy your ride. Of course gearing and tuning play a big part in things. If I go ahead and add a 117 big block kit things on my Victory would move up the scale to about 135/135. I'm not into a show pony as I much prefer a nice looking go pony.
When I first test rode my first Victory 106 I immediately thought it sounded and felt constipated as it was tuned for the EPA, not for the motor. A dyno tune on a box stock 106 makes a world of difference as well.
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I had a 106 years ago...I guarantee you they are SLOW...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-Gpp7G7x/0/eaa23ad4/X3/20180802_105549-X3.jpg)
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1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, roll on from whatever to whatever. So what. But be careful with challenges as an R6 will easily blow away a CA 1400 too. Plus many a big v twins are sleepers. If you were roll up on my friend with your peppy and free reving CA 1400 and think, he's on a big barcalounger etc etc etc. Go ahead, make your challenge. You may not notice his 106 is now a 116 with a supercharger tucked away down low. He's putting out over 200 RWhp and over 245 RW foot pounds of torque. Yet his bike is as easy and effortless to ride as could be. Yea, he'll be your huckleberry. You name from what speed to what speed or from what distance to what distance. If I go ahead and add a 117 big block kit mine would move up the scale to about 135/135. Yes, even many H-D's I ride with are sleepers. But they'll not challenge you, they leave that up to you.
At 60mph, my Victory is likely still in 4th gear with more go on tap. No matter how you slice it, 114 foot pounds of table top flat rear wheel torque from 1500 rpm through redline at 6250 is pretty decent. And no, my Victory is by no means what I consider a powerhouse. Nor am I a street racer of any sort. Since I don't know you, make your challenge and I'll wave you on and tell you to enjoy your ride. Of course gearing and tuning play a big part in things. If I go ahead and add a 117 big block kit things on my Victory would move up the scale to about 135/135. I'm not into a show pony as I much prefer a nice looking go pony.
When I first test rode my first Victory 106 I immediately thought it sounded and felt constipated as it was tuned for the EPA, not for the motor. A dyno tune on a box stock 106 makes a world of difference as well.
I just saw the video that was posted here. No experience. But it did pull all the bigger bikes for 60mph roll ons. :whip2:
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/baggers-brawl
If you want a bigger engine, I'd go for 117. :evil:
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Mark TN, What is the world coming to when 1400cc is considered middleweight? My '77 XS750 with full touring accessories was considered a continental touring bike.
Today 600 - 800 cc is considered middleweight.
You must be limiting your discussion only to cruiser motorcycles when you refer to 1400cc as middleweight. There are many more motorcycles than cruisers out there.
Also, you would be better off spending the first $1000 on suspension components on most cruisers made before you spent the first dollar on making the cruiser more powerful and out ride the budget suspension.
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So what , I had one of those Vincent Black Widows , you know , the one the Govt outlawed because it would do like 220 MPH , you can ask my wife , she was on the back one time on I 40 when one of them there 438 Hemi Barracudas wanted to race , why we was still in 2nd gear when that Barracuda just plum ran outta speed .
I mean as long as we are tellin' stories :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
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Mark, you are never going to win this, you have to know that. Guzzi are cool, others have their attractions, but they still aren't Guzzi cool. You want Guzzi to make a big barge to make your wife happy? Maybe they will make one someday, but I hope not, that's not where they come from. There are lots of good choices for hauling butts around.
Remember when you were happy with a 850? Then a 1000, then a 1100 Bassa ( really only 1064cc) was everything you wanted? Then 1200, and perhaps more? Now you're sitting on something like 1740cc. Are you happy now? Sounds like you want more. When will it stop, 5000cc, I doubt it, wouldn't 5050 be even better?
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In 1977 even Moto Guzzi have a 1000cc bagger with the Convert and then the G5. So, the 750 tourer was a middleweight back then. Does Moto Guzzi use the 1400cc in anything but a cruiser/bagger/tourer? The sheer volume of cruisers/baggers/tourers being sold in the US have engines so much larger than a 1400cc that it makes even a 1400cc a middleweight by today's standard. It's at the top of the middleweight range but, IMHO, it's still clearly a middleweight. If you don't like that, call it a light heavyweight and be done with it.
Anyone who leaves a 106 box stock is or has missed out on a much better running engine. Slightly modified as I've posted a few times already will reward the rider with half the felt engine heat, +3 mpg and a whole lot more fun.
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OK boys, pull em out, let's have a big dick contest.
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We had this discussion before , only the brands were different . Moto Guzzi isn't HD or Polarindian , same as it isn't Honda . The argument for an ever larger motor is circular , and largely nonsensical . First , who cares if some supercharged big twin makes 245 HP , that is nothing more than a number. Maybe HD and Polarindian should build a motorbike that will bend corners like a Moto Guzzi . Anyone can twist a throttle and go fast in a straight line , so what .
Dusty
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Mark, you are never going to win this, you have to know that. Guzzi are cool, others have their attractions, but they still aren't Guzzi cool. You want Guzzi to make a big barge to make your wife happy? Maybe they will make one someday, but I hope not, that's not where they come from. There are lots of good choices for hauling butts around.
Remember when you were happy with a 850? Then a 1000, then a 1100 Bassa ( really only 1064cc) was everything you wanted? Then 1200, and perhaps more? Now you're sitting on something like 1740cc. Are you happy now? Sounds like you want more. When will it stop, 5000cc, I doubt it, wouldn't 5050 be even better?
Chad,
I'm not trying to 'win' anything. I'm just posting facts and my experience as I know it from 50 years of riding. Yes, I did love my Bassa but it was wholly underpowered in way too many riding conditions in my book. The 1200 Griso? A fun and sporty small bike for someone under 5'9" and 160 pounds. Yes, I certainly do think Moto Guzzi is a cool brand. That's why I'm considering buying another one. There are cool emotional factors and there are real world realities. Motorcycles are a series of choices and compromises.
I'm not trying to promote the Victory brand and be their cheerleader either. It's a dead brand with nothing new coming for them. But remember back many years if you will when your mother, sister or cousin got their first hand held hair dryer. How successful would anyone have been back then saying pay no attention to that convenience and use a hand towel because that's good enough. Or mechanical brakes, point ignition and window down air conditioning. Once a person experiences 'nicer' then what they had before, it's a tough move going back. No sense in denying the realities of the world in which we live.
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I don't know who and where this data was compiled but according to this site, https://www.zeroto60times.com/body-style/motorcycle/
the Indian Scout is a quicker motorcycle than all the other Indians and it is a baby Vtwin.
Even the Ninja 250R from 1986 is faster than most passenger cars on the road.
The argument that bigger is better is not a valid argument.
Power to weight ratios, balance, handling, etc. are more important than displacement when you consider a ride that is engaging.
You add more displacement means more weight which than requires a beefier frame, better suspension, bigger brakes, larger tires, etc.
Different rides for different purposes. If all you do is drone down the interstate than bigger and bulkier will fit the bill.
If you enjoy the 2 lane curvy roads then light and nimble rule the day. I for one am glad that there are choices out there for every type of rider and riding style. For my current riding wants the V7III and the Road Glide Special cover all. One for enjoying the 2 lane back roads solo, and one for going the distance and hauling gear and my wife when she wants to come along. The Road Glide Special doesn't go on roads that don't have a painted center line.
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This is good discussion. I love it. I also love facts, numbers and visuals. So, I thought I'd do a little bit of quick research and throw together my own comparisons. I compared Cubic Inches, HP, Torque, Acceleration, Weight, Ground Clearance and Lean Angles on the 4 baggers that I thought mattered and were relevant here.
Transparency; I care way more about weight (lighter), acceleration, ground clearance and lean angles here in the land of a million hairpins called the Ozark Mountains. HP and torque are nice too, but not the highest thing on my list. I'll also say again that if I wanted a bike for continuous cross country 2-up touring, I'd choose none of the bikes listed here. I'd buy a Goldwing for that. Not taking away from any of these bikes 2-up capabilities, but if I did any type of lots of miles 2 up, I'd choose comfort over a lot other specs. Luckily, my wife rides her own bike, so that will not be a conversation in the near future.
That said, here is what I found. Various sources and I compared these numbers from at least 3 different sites. Numbers and facts don't lie. I'll shut up now and let the picture do the talking. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what is out there for everyone to see.
(http://www.wildguzzi.com/specs.jpg)
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Ruh roh Reorge :laugh:
Yeah , seems those bigger"better" V twins need a bunch of help to keep up with that poor pathetic "little" 1400 CC Guzzi :evil:
Dusty
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This is good discussion. I love it. I also love facts, numbers and visuals. So, I thought I'd do a little bit of quick research and throw together my own comparisons. I compared Cubic Inches, HP, Torque, Acceleration, Weight, Ground Clearance and Lean Angles on the 4 baggers that I thought mattered and were relevant here.
Transparency; I care way more about weight (lighter), acceleration, ground clearance and lean angles here in the land of a million hairpins called the Ozark Mountains. HP and torque are nice too, but not the highest thing on my list. I'll also say again that if I wanted a bike for continuous cross country 2-up touring, I'd choose none of the bikes listed here. I'd buy a Goldwing for that. Not taking away from any of these bikes 2-up capabilities, but if I did any type of lots of miles 2 up, I'd choose comfort over a lot other specs. Luckily, my wife rides her own bike, so that will not be a conversation in the near future.
That said, here is what I found. Various sources and I compared these numbers from at least 3 different sites. Numbers and facts don't lie. I'll shut up now and let the picture do the talking. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what is out there for everyone to see.
(http://www.wildguzzi.com/specs.jpg)
And that is not even looking at suspension components. Suspension travel, adjustability, etc.
If I were to choose among those 4 offerings I would choose the flying fortress.
I chose the roadglide because I prefer frame mounted fairings. I might choose the new goldwing next , but would not choose the last 1800 wing over my Road Glide.
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This is good discussion. I love it. I also love facts, numbers and visuals. So, I thought I'd do a little bit of quick research and throw together my own comparisons. I compared Cubic Inches, HP, Torque, Acceleration, Weight, Ground Clearance and Lean Angles on the 4 baggers that I thought mattered and were relevant here.
Transparency; I care way more about weight (lighter), acceleration, ground clearance and lean angles here in the land of a million hairpins called the Ozark Mountains. HP and torque are nice too, but not the highest thing on my list. I'll also say again that if I wanted a bike for continuous cross country 2-up touring, I'd choose none of the bikes listed here. I'd buy a Goldwing for that. Not taking away from any of these bikes 2-up capabilities, but if I did any type of lots of miles 2 up, I'd choose comfort over a lot other specs. Luckily, my wife rides her own bike, so that will not be a conversation in the near future.
That said, here is what I found. Various sources and I compared these numbers from at least 3 different sites. Numbers and facts don't lie. I'll shut up now and let the picture do the talking. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what is out there for everyone to see.
(http://www.wildguzzi.com/specs.jpg)
I agree with most of what you said, except the Gold Wing part. In 2013 when we bought the Victory we did look at the Wings. All my wife heard was "heated backrest" and she was 'sold'. But I wasn't ready for a Wing at that time and certainly not now with the new revised Wing. If all I cared about was being fast I'd not have ever owned a Victory Cross Country Tour. Most of my mileage is on the highway one up or two up. Even though, living in the Chattanooga area, we have some of the most beautiful hills, valleys and mountains to be found. All within a very easy and short ride from where I live.
When we bought the Victory I thought that since the trunk comes off in about 3 minutes total, I'd use it without the trunk and only use the trunk when my wife was with me. Truth be told, the trunk has only been off for about a 1000 miles of 60,000 on it.
There are so many motorcycles of all engine sizes that are much more powerful than either your 1400 or my 106 that we simply can't go by engine size alone. Though what I do like about the 106, even now with them being a dead brand, is the pathway is easy and relatively inexpensive to bolt on power. It's also still readily available. As I've said, the 106 in stock form is very underwhelming. To me, it sounded and performed like it was constipated. Of course it was, it was tuned strictly to pass EPA regulations. But since it's an overhead cam, 4 valve engine, it benefits greatly with the low hanging fruit of cams, air filter, slip on mufflers and a dyno tune.
If all goes well, I'll be looking at an Eldorado tomorrow. Though the more I see the MGX-21 the more I like it. I believe Moto Guzzi did a great job on it. I also look forward to maybe the second generation of all the current 1400's. But if they'd make the MGX-21 in a gloss pearl white I'd have a difficult time resisting. Until my wife reminded me how much she likes the back seat of the Victory.
Ride well my friend,
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But if they'd make the MGX-21 in a gloss pearl white I'd have a difficult time resisting.
I do wish they offered more colors. I'd love to have it metallic silver. Here's a photo of a white one some guy had painted. Looks wonderful.
(http://www.wildguzzi.com/whitemgx2.jpg)
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If all goes well, I'll be looking at an Eldorado tomorrow. Though the more I see the MGX-21 the more I like it. I believe Moto Guzzi did a great job on it. I also look forward to maybe the second generation of all the current 1400's. But if they'd make the MGX-21 in a gloss pearl white I'd have a difficult time resisting. Until my wife reminded me how much she likes the back seat of the Victory.
Ride well my friend,
Well, if you even pay lip service to 5K in bolt on's to build your dream machine, have I got good news for you! You can buy the Guzzi, get the fork mounted fairing the lighter over all machine the out the door performance the 106 can only dream about, then add a cozy pillion for your bride for only a few Benjamins! Winning!
(https://i.imgur.com/shZuTTL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/edXPsgR.jpg)
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Just to weigh in here referencing my 2 wheel history that includes 05 BMW K1200LT, a smattering of BMW R/75's 3 Honda Goldwings from 1977 to 2010, 14 Harleys which 8 were HD EVO FLHTC/U dressers, 05 FJR1300, 2 DL1000 V-Stroms and other misc Motorcycles including my 07 Norge and have spent time riding friend's 2014 MG 1400 Touring. I liked the 1400 but it felt small and cramped compared to my Victory as did my Harley's. All those led me to my Victory CCT. My tuned Victory is quite fast. None of the aforementioned bikes were as comfortable to me and passenger nor carried as much as the Victory. No bike was perfect but the Vic is more perfect than most in my opinion. The 1400 feels good but more sitting on top then "in" like I feel the Victory provides. ** As an addendum - Fred and wifey were leading us on a 200 mile ride and 100+ miles into the ride his bride said she was so uncomfortable on the Guzzi 1400 passenger pillion she got off the bike on the back seat of anoth friend along for the ride on his Kawasaki to ride the rest of the way home. I had my G/F with me otherwise she would have been totally spoiled on the back of a CCT with adjustable pax floorboards and pillowed backrest tourbox.
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Well, if you even pay lip service to 5K in bolt on's to build your dream machine, have I got good news for you! You can buy the Guzzi, get the fork mounted fairing the lighter over all machine the out the door performance the 106 can only dream about, then add a cozy pillion for your bride for only a few Benjamins! Winning!
(https://i.imgur.com/shZuTTL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/edXPsgR.jpg)
That's funny but I'm not sure you meant it to be. I'm not sure if it's the Guzzi you don't know about or the potential of a 106. The aftermarket for the Victory is still very much alive and doing quite well. That $5K you mentioned is a bolt on super charger that you could install in your garage if you were good with basic hand tools. Then you will have over 200 RWHP and over 245 RW Foot Pounds of Torque. I keep looking but I haven't found such an aftermarket for the 1400. Slip on mufflers, a K&N air filter and a Maxinmus style tune are very nice though. Look friend, they're different motorcycles designed for different markets.
I'm thrilled you love your 1400 if you have one. I love my Victory and I also love the Moto Guzzi brand. It's OK to like them both, it really is. It doesn't have to be a one or the other, anyone not only holding Moto Guzzi on a pedestal should leave now type of thing. Thank God we have so many choices and options available to us. It's a motorcycle after all. Nothing more, it's just a tool to a means.
Please sir, enjoy your ride. And thank you for posting the picture of that seat on the MGX-21. I think it looks wonderful on the bike!
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I do wish they offered more colors. I'd love to have it metallic silver. Here's a photo of a white one some guy had painted. Looks wonderful.
(http://www.wildguzzi.com/whitemgx2.jpg)
Thank you for that picture of the white MGX-21. It looks completely different painted.
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Just to weigh in here referencing my 2 wheel history that includes 05 BMW K1200LT, a smattering of BMW R/75's 3 Honda Goldwings from 1977 to 2010, 14 Harleys which 8 were HD EVO FLHTC/U dressers, 05 FJR1300, 2 DL1000 V-Stroms and other misc Motorcycles including my 07 Norge and have spent time riding friend's 2014 MG 1400 Touring. I liked the 1400 but it felt small and cramped compared to my Victory as did my Harley's. All those led me to my Victory CCT. My tuned Victory is quite fast. None of the aforementioned bikes were as comfortable to me and passenger nor carried as much as the Victory. No bike was perfect but the Vic is more perfect than most in my opinion. The 1400 feels good but more sitting on top then "in" like I feel the Victory provides.
Exactly! It's amazing that with essentially the same wheelbase, the two companies utilized the available real estate so differently. I haven't found a bike that allows for a more relaxed position from the factory than the Victory Cross bikes.
When I test rode a CA Touring it had a Corbin seat. I wasn't sure if the feeling of sitting on the tank was due to the seat or the bikes design. The CA Touring I sat on recently with the oem seat felt a bit more laid out. The Eldorado I sat on felt much better to me. It seems the Eldo seat moves the rider back an inch or so compared to the CA Touring. Of course that means less room for the passenger. It's been a while since I sat on the MGX-21.
And speaking of social media between Polaris and Piaggio, I received a flyer from Polaris today suggesting I take a test ride on a Slingshot at my local Polaris Indian/Slingshot/Victory dealer. Thank you for the ... effort, but no thank you.
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Building motorcycles to meet the wants and needs of future buyer 5 years into the future is not easy. 3 pages of comments mostly from people that are not going to buy a new bike from any brand. I have no plans to buy a new motorcycle. Not because of money, but because of age. The U.S. motorcycle business has been in a slump since 2008 and shows no sign of recovery any time soon. It is a world market, not just a U.S. market. The vastness of the U.S., the diverse weather conditions, terrain/roads makes a 1 bike fits all situation impossible. Manufactures have to take that into account when designing, building and marketing products. Fortunately, we have more than a couple of choices to pick from.
My personal survey show plenty of aging riders and a glut of large displacement motorcycle with no buyers. 4 motorcycles in my garage from 4 different manufactures. My first chose, Moto Guzzi followed by 1978 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD. 1 rider in the household. I ride for recreation. No touring, no cross country trips. Averaging 6,000 mile a year.
The 4 bike comparison is interesting and has a lot of valid point in favor of Moto Guzzi.
1 question though, do the new engines run a lighter flywheel? I replaced the stock flywheel with a Ram clutch in my 1100 engine and really like the seat of the pants performance feel I got.
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I’m a HUGE Victory cycle fan! I even was a dealer back in 1999/2000. I’ve owned 3 of them (still have 2). A 2003 Vegas & a 2010 Arlen Ness Vision. So trouble free. So maintenance free. So unique. And I LOVE the way they make me feel when I ride them. Hell, I even LOVE just looking at them while sitting in the garage, sipping on a beer! And to top it off, I have two great dealerships, if I ever need them! I have been looking into a Moto Guzzi lately because they share some of the same qualities that attracted me to Victory. Problem is...NO GOOD DEALERSHIP anywhere near me! I can’t even fathom the thought of doing business with them! I just don’t like the people. Big Box stores suck, in my opinion. I wish my former Victory dealers would/could pick up Guzzi. I know Guzzis aren’t as reliable as Victory’s are. But that wouldn’t bother so much if I had a dealer I could count on .....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Dealers are extremely important. I would not be riding an MG now if it were not for the local dealer. I knew him first as an all brand service shop. MG is a "boutique" brand much like the exotic Italian sports cars. You must have an excellent dealer to sell such vehicles. For the most part, the dealers will be located near major metropolitan areas.
I had a great Victory and a great dealer close to home, but the recession knocked out that dealer. They have since reopened with different ownership as an Indian dealer. Of course, they can take care of Victory too. My Victory was totally reliable through 25k miles when I traded it. I enjoyed the bike when I had it.
I enjoy the Blu Guzz now and so far 8300 miles, have had no problems.
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That's funny but I'm not sure you meant it to be. I'm not sure if it's the Guzzi you don't know about or the potential of a 106. The aftermarket for the Victory is still very much alive and doing quite well. That $5K you mentioned is a bolt on super charger that you could install in your garage if you were good with basic hand tools. Then you will have over 200 RWHP and over 245 RW Foot Pounds of Torque. I keep looking but I haven't found such an aftermarket for the 1400. Slip on mufflers, a K&N air filter and a Maxinmus style tune are very nice though. Look friend, they're different motorcycles designed for different markets.
I'm thrilled you love your 1400 if you have one. I love my Victory and I also love the Moto Guzzi brand. It's OK to like them both, it really is. It doesn't have to be a one or the other, anyone not only holding Moto Guzzi on a pedestal should leave now type of thing. Thank God we have so many choices and options available to us. It's a motorcycle after all. Nothing more, it's just a tool to a means.
Please sir, enjoy your ride. And thank you for posting the picture of that seat on the MGX-21. I think it looks wonderful on the bike!
That post was made with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek. And like most such comments, had an air of sincerity to it. You said "most of my miles are on the highway". Clearly we have different goals, so we use different tools. It's all good. We're blessed to have options. The fact is that off the showroom floor, the Guzzi outperforms the Victory 106. Faster, more horsepower, more torque, better handling geometry. That's data. Not subjective. You may not care for it at all, ( hear you, you dig the Guzzi) but it's a better performing machine by any measure. Not an irrelevant tidbit of info. The fact that it's simple and 'cheap' to profoundly upgrade the 106 is certainly a HUGE factor for the guy who wants such a machine, and would elevate the Vic over the Guzzi for me, if 200 HP were important to me. The fact, however, is that such upgrades are MANDATORY if your 106 is going to beat the Guzzi on performance (in a straight line).
You mentioned the appeal of a fork mounted fairing, the growing appeal of the MGX in your view, somewhere in this thread was the mention of getting lighter "at some point", and your brides concern of a pillion. So I thought I'd bring it all together and throw the Corbin at ya, "ticking all the boxes".
In my book, anything with two wheels and a motor is cool. If it meets your 'needs', and your kids aren't going hungry in pursuit of such things, good on ya.
I don't own a 1400. I've ridden one with a pillion on twisty Kentucky roads, a white Touring. Beautiful machine and wonderful motor. As others have mentioned, I found the bike I was on a bit too cramped for me. Like your 106, I imagine I could thoughtfully spend a bit and make it work for me. I found that it felt incredibly light and nimble when underway.
For me though, the numbers just don't make sense. But that's me, as you said in an earlier post, "in my book". Why do I need to drop $30,000.00 to have a 200hp machine that will go like a bat out of hell, when my paltry 1100 carries me and my gear 80 - 90 mph all day long with out breaking a sweat, and will hit the ton and (slightly) beyond when the opportunity presents itself? Add to that the fact that, in the dead cold snowy grey nights of February, when I'm lusting for fairer weather and the rumble of a V, my mind wanders to a freshly paved twisty 2 lane road, and the feel of my <600 lb machine as a I roll the throttle exiting a curve at 50 mph. You can have the 200 hp. I'll take the $27,000.00 more you spent to not have the visceral experience I have on my Tonti. Huckleberry, indeed.
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Hi Mark,
I hope you know that in no way was I trying to imply your wife weighs 250# (tho if she does, more power to her)
I simply meant; for ME, I cant imagine why you'd need an 1800cc motorcycle unless you had over 500# of passenger.
But now I'm mostly curious how you live in Chatanooga and do most of your riding on the interstate? Where the heck you going man??
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Imagine my surprise, entering this thread, expecting it to be about Guzzi/Piaggio's social media presence. Silly me.
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Imagine my surprise, entering this thread, expecting it to be about Guzzi/Piaggio's social media presence. Silly me.
Touche.
I really haven't seen it myself. Maybe I'm not on social media enough? Or maybe TN Mark, as a Vic owner is somehow targeted in a way I'm not as a Guzzi owner. It's good to hear though, that folks are seeing the marque.
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Touche.
I really haven't seen it myself. Maybe I'm not on social media enough? Or maybe TN Mark, as a Vic owner is somehow targeted in a way I'm not as a Guzzi owner. It's good to hear though, that folks are seeing the marque.
I've only seen it on Instagram (it's the only Social media I do)… and it's... well... weak. Maybe it's perfect for today's market, but it's 100% style over substance. "Motorcycle as lifestyle accessory", "buy our bikes, be awesome" kinda stuff.
However... I'm getting old, and that doesn't appeal to me (any longer, if I'm to be honest... I was young once, too), but it may appeal to younger people. And lets be fair... old farts ain't buying new stuff, and if we are, we've got limited years left to do it, so best appeal to the younger gen, if you want to stay doing what you're doing.
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I will admit. ... As long as extra weight don't come with extra HP its a good thing.
This little V 7 runs along at 80 mph just fine .
I'm more a "sport rider" than a "touring rider".
I do have some questions:
When does an iPhone become an iPad?
When does a motorcycle become a car?
Bigger is not necessarily better.
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Imagine my surprise, entering this thread, expecting it to be about Guzzi/Piaggio's social media presence. Silly me.
Seems to me the OP is full of sheetos and looking for some attention......
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TN Mark said,
" I'm not trying to 'win' anything. I'm just posting facts and my experience as I know it from 50 years of riding. Yes, I did love my Bassa but it was wholly underpowered in way too many riding conditions in my book. The 1200 Griso? A fun and sporty small bike for someone under 5'9" and 160 pounds. Yes, I certainly do think Moto Guzzi is a cool brand. That's why I'm considering buying another one. There are cool emotional factors and there are real world realities. Motorcycles are a series of choices and compromises. "
Sure it all depends on your concept of power and size, but you claim as opinion as "facts".
You felt that your Bassa was "wholly underpowered in way too many riding conditions..." In 1999, the 1100 was putting out hp numbers to the ground in the low to mid sixties stock. Cycle World did a review and said, I'm paraphrasing, "that the power comes on in an explosive rush once you hit 5000 rpm..." I personally road my old bassa for years, loaded up to rallies, and all over, and routinely spun it into the triple digits, I never found it underpowered, yes there were times I wished it had more, but it certainly wasn't underpowered, especially compared to the competition.
And come on man, "the Griso is a fun and sporty small bike for someone under 5'9" and a 160 pounds." that is just plan not accurate. At 6'5" I will agree I don't fit well, but I would think anybody under 6'2" and with a 33 or less inseam would have no problem fitting, regardless of weight! The Griso weight is almost 500 pounds with a very long wheel base for a sporting bike, but you call it small???
I'll suggest that your perspective is not one shared by most level headed motorcyclist. When you come out of the box making claims that can easily be shown to be erroneous, it shoots your credibility to the floor.
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It's wonderful that people are so happy with the factory power output of their Guzzis. Me, I was never that happy with the power output of mine as many on this forum clearly are. I always added aftermarket pipes and an air filter at the minimum. In my book that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong. People like different things for different reasons.
I also like having options to increase the power if or when I see fit to do so. The aftermarket is better for that with some brands than others. The 'facts' and opinions I post are from my own personal riding experiences, not from a data sheet.
In the end, I love motorcycles in general far above any single brand or model. At one point we had a Honda, a Harley and a Guzzi in the garage. From reading the posts here, I see some are like minded and some only have eyes for a single brand. That's fine, this is after all, a single brand Internet forum.
Enjoy your ride and arrive back home safe and sound to the ones you love.
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It's wonderful that people are so happy with the factory power output of their Guzzis. Me, I was never that happy with the power output of mine as many on this forum clearly are. I always added aftermarket pipes and an air filter at the minimum. In my book that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong. People like different things for different reasons.
I also like having options to increase the power if or when I see fit to do so. The aftermarket is better for that with some brands than others. The 'facts' and opinions I post are from my own personal riding experiences, not from a data sheet.
In the end, I love motorcycles in general far above any single brand or model. At one point we had a Honda, a Harley and a Guzzi in the garage. From reading the posts here, I see some are like minded and some only have eyes for a single brand. That's fine, this is after all, a single brand Internet forum.
Enjoy your ride and arrive back home safe and sound to the ones you love.
Maybe it is just me, but I don't think so. I've never understood buying an "underpowered" bike and then sinking thousands into it to make it more powerful (and usually less reliable) when you can just walk down to the next dealer and buy a bike off the showroom floor that is already more powerful for less total money invested.
When the engineers design a bike they generally design it as a balanced system. The frame, suspension, engine power, brakes, tire size, and final drive all work together as a system. When you go and throw money at only one part of the system you bring that system out of balance. Adding more power and using that power (instead of just bragging about it) can lead to situations where you overwhelm other parts of the system. This can lead to dangerous situations.
I do accept that there are those who have to have the most powerful miata or S10 pickup out there by shoehorning an LS V8 in them, but then they have to spend 10s of thousands more making the vehicle capable of taking advantage of those extra ponies.
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35 years of riding bikes you weren't happy with.... Your'e either a martyr or maroon. And let's be real. People add pipes for sound, not power, as the power increase is negligible beyond the butt dyno and psyche, same with air filters.
Most people on this site love Guzzi's but few are fanboys and brand loyalists and there is a broad cross section of bikes. I think youre full of crap, but hey its a free world!
It's wonderful that people are so happy with the factory power output of their Guzzis. Me, I was never that happy with the power output of mine as many on this forum clearly are. I always added aftermarket pipes and an air filter at the minimum. In my book that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong. People like different things for different reasons.
I also like having options to increase the power if or when I see fit to do so. The aftermarket is better for that with some brands than others. The 'facts' and opinions I post are from my own personal riding experiences, not from a data sheet.
In the end, I love motorcycles in general far above any single brand or model. At one point we had a Honda, a Harley and a Guzzi in the garage. From reading the posts here, I see some are like minded and some only have eyes for a single brand. That's fine, this is after all, a single brand Internet forum.
Enjoy your ride and arrive back home safe and sound to the ones you love.
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A dyno run addresses the real advantages of what modifications make noise and which ones add performance. Here�s a tip: if it comes from the oem, it typically adds noise at a greater rate than actual useable power.
That�s for the online complimentary physch evaluation. But if an owner of just about any motorcycle is considered by you to be a martyr or a moron, you may be at enmity with nearly the entire motorcycle industry. Though in those 35 years I greatly enjoyed my various Moto Guzzi�s and (most of) the other enthusiastic owners of the brand. Even though I was looking for just a bit more performance on nearly all of them. Though certainly not my 1960 Stornello 125 or the 50cc Trotter moped.
If ultimate performance was an actual goal, I wouldn�t own a Victory and you certainly wouldn�t own a Moto Guzzi. Motorcycles, like many, many manufactured products are simply a series of compromises. From the manufacturer as well as the consumer.
Enjoy your day sir.
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It's wonderful that people are so happy with the factory power output of their Guzzis. Me, I was never that happy with the power output of mine as many on this forum clearly are. I always added aftermarket pipes and an air filter at the minimum. In my book that doesn't make any one of us right or wrong. People like different things for different reasons.
I also like having options to increase the power if or when I see fit to do so. The aftermarket is better for that with some brands than others. The 'facts' and opinions I post are from my own personal riding experiences, not from a data sheet.
In the end, I love motorcycles in general far above any single brand or model. At one point we had a Honda, a Harley and a Guzzi in the garage. From reading the posts here, I see some are like minded and some only have eyes for a single brand. That's fine, this is after all, a single brand Internet forum.
Enjoy your ride and arrive back home safe and sound to the ones you love.
Mark, you started this my saying that you wanted an 1800cc Guzzi when you were comparing the smaller Cal 1400 to larger American Cruisers.
We rightfully pointed out that the Cal 14 has more horsepower and is faster than the bikes you listed. Luap went on to point out several facts & stats to that effect Having ridden several of the brands of bikes you listed, I mentioned that my experience was that the Guzzi 1400 was faster and sportier.
The difference is that the Guzzi likes rpms and the bikes you mention are low revving. Totally different riding styles. Guzzi riders generally like a sportier (and faster) machine.
All of this was known before you wrote your post. Now we've gone full circle and you're complaining about the faster Guzzi being too slow.
Finally, you mention that your Victory is faster because of the many dollars you spent on modifications (which ironically raise the redline on your previously corked up Victory). You might know that Guzzitech has all kinds of parts to make the 1400 even faster.
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I was wondering how long it would take someone to mention GuzziTech. I’ve been admiring Todd and his team since they started. Nothing but respect and admiration for them from me. But it does kind of prove my point about not everyone is happy as can be with their factory Guzzi power and many often want more. That’s my point, i want more power than what most bikes offer. Some brands have an easy and a relatively inexpensive path to get their. Victory, Indian and H-D for example. Whatever your wallet can bear can very likely be done. Guzzi makes different sized engines of a relatively similar design because people want differing levels of performance. That’s also why Yamaha makes an R6 and an R1.
You attributed claims to me which I didn’t make. But I think this horse has been beaten enough.
I did enjoy my test ride on the MGX-21 today though. But that’s for another thread altogether.
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..........none of what you said Mark has anything to do with wanting Guzzi sell an 1800 slow revving cruiser
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I was wondering how long it would take someone to mention GuzziTech. I�ve been admiring Todd and his team since they started. Nothing but respect and admiration for them from me. But it does kind of prove my point about not everyone is happy as can be with their factory Guzzi power and many often want more. That�s my point, i want more power than what most bikes offer. Some brands have an easy and a relatively inexpensive path to get their. Victory, Indian and H-D for example. Whatever your wallet can bear can very likely be done. Guzzi makes different sized engines of a relatively similar design because people want differing levels of performance. That�s also why Yamaha makes an R6 and an R1.
You attributed claims to me which I didn�t make. But I think this horse has been beaten enough.
I did enjoy my test ride on the MGX-21 today though. But that�s for another thread altogether.
There are always guys who want more power, no matter what they own. Some crave the power, some crave the bragging rights. If you don't know they did it then you know which reason they chose.
I know guys who had to have the fastest Concours 14 or the fastest ZX10R. Two bikes that you can't even exploit the power available unless you are on the track or don't really need your license.
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..........none of what you said Mark has anything to do with wanting Guzzi sell and 1800 slow revving cruiser
If it would spin to 6K that wouldn’t be slow reving V Twin in my book. The Victory 106 built up to a 129 by Lloyd’s Motorworx would spin all day over 7000. I met with and talked to the builder of that particular motor earlier this week. I think my 106 cuts off at 6250 but I very rarely take it past 5000. I don’t consider that a ‘slow’ revving engine for a big twin. But it certainly is compared to an I4. The overhead cam, four valve per cylinder design allows the 106 to be a spinner compared to the 108 from H-D or the 111 from Polaris Indian.
I don’t expect Piaggio to build an 1800. But I’d like to see it none the less. Others may not and it’s likely they’ll get that desire. I’m not sure what, if any room is even left on the current block for a larger bore or a longer stroke.
The social media aspect of this is to see if the Moto Guzzi demo form gets turned into Piaggio and if/when either the dealer or Piaggio follows up from my MGX-21 demo today.
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Let's not turn this into an ad for Guzzitech . They have their own website , please feel free to visit it .
Thanks
Dusty
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Oh goodness, must really be some bad blood here for "the name that shall not be mentioned".
Seems we can talk tell the cows come home about Harpers, MG Cycle and most any other, but the thought police come out swinging fast for GT.
I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm assuming we are not supposed to mention the "evil one" because they too have a forum? Seems a bit of an over reach.
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Here is the deal , GT sanctions any discussion mentioning products produced by the folks who so generously provide services here , they have locked threads that were discussing products that are not produced by GT , and continually denigrated certain people who contribute goods and services not specifically sanctioned by GT . If you wish to discuss this any farther please do so by PM . Understand?
Dusty
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My sincere apologies, I didn't know there was still unpleasantness between the two groups. If need be, please lock down or close this thread.
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My sincere apologies, I didn't know there was still unpleasantness between the two groups. If need be, please lock down or close this thread.
No unpleasantness towards GT, their products, forums or anything as long as the field of play remains plural and not singular. They promote Guzzi's as well as their own products. That's great for everyone. We also promote Moto Guzzi's, their maintenance and their riders here...not organizations.
This thread has gone quite to the dark side though. Maybe it's just time to agree that Moto Guzzi will probably NEVER build an 1800CC, low revving, low sitting 1000 lb motorcycle as long as their stock 1400's produce at least the same numbers, or better than the rest of it's competition. It's just not their niche. Their niche is a nostalgic, high revving, shaft driven, sport-bike like handling motorcycle.
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Thanks for the explanation fellas.