Norge 1200 exhaust valve issues

[mrv]

I'm sure the previous owner knew about it, just wish he would have taken care of it instead of covering it up to make a sale. I don't blame the dealer because if he adjusted the valves when he took it in they wouldn't know not being a Guzzi dealer.

[pete roper]

Oh I'm sure as soon as it started making odd noises he did a bit of research, freaked out, closed up the clearances and flipped it. IMHO a totally shitty thing to do.

Pete

[Huzo]

If you do just replace the flatties, will you give us another report in 40,000 miles ?
No one will scoff..
(I promise)
We have the benefit of a massive pool of collective wisdom on this (and many other) topics.
As Pete will freely admit he is far from the sole font of all knowlege on this topic, but do you really expect to half arsedly "fix" your bike and expect to just stroll away..?
It will be worth 3/5 th's of 5/8 th's of S F A, if you follow this course of action.
The rollerising and associated buggerising around that you will do, will only serve to form a "bond" with your Guzzi.
If you don't know what I mean, just go and buy a VFR 1200 Honda.
They're as reliable as a wooden spoon...
(And almost as interesting..)

[mrv]

I actually was looking at a VFR but the distance from me to get it the mileage on it steered me away from it to the Norge.
 I am waiting to hear back from the closest dealer to me to see what they say. I did find the roller kit on one site here in the US for $726. So if the dealer gives me the thumbs down and and the other is in stock I will go repair with the roller kit since it is only  about $200 more than replacing the flat tappets. I really like the bike my wife is comfy on the back so if I can get this fixed the I will look at what other issues I need to be aware of on it.

[PJPR01]

I actually was looking at a VFR but the distance from me to get it the mileage on it steered me away from it to the Norge.
 I am waiting to hear back from the closest dealer to me to see what they say. I did find the roller kit on one site here in the US for $726. So if the dealer gives me the thumbs down and and the other is in stock I will go repair with the roller kit since it is only  about $200 more than replacing the flat tappets. I really like the bike my wife is comfy on the back so if I can get this fixed the I will look at what other issues I need to be aware of on it.

A friend of mine here in town has a VFR for sale...I'll have to get specs.  It's the fast Red Huzo color, so it looks like it's doing 100 mph while standing still!  :)

[ohiorider]

It still upsets me to read that Piaggio demands the owner have the top end dismantled, and the tappets inspected before they'll provide the kit.  No installation labor costs are covered.  Here's your damned kit.  Period/paragraph. 

This should be a recall where parts and labor are covered.  And based on what we know (and they, they being Piaggio,  know,) there should be a complete engine replacement, especially for higher mileage flat tappet bikes like the one owned by the OP.  Under warranty.

[mrv]

The Piaggio Rep in California as well as the dealer that I bought the bike from said my vin# is not in the technical service bulletin regarding the lifters.  So I guess I will need to tear bike apart and see for myself if the tappets are bad and if so order the kit myself and just cough up the money.

[Huzo]

A friend of mine here in town has a VFR for sale...I'll have to get specs.  It's the fast Red Huzo color, so it looks like it's doing 100 mph while standing still!  :)

It'd still be fast if it was baby shit brown/yellow/green, you would just get bored with it sooner.

[Huzo]

I actually was looking at a VFR but the distance from me to get it the mileage on it steered me away from it to the Norge.
 I am waiting to hear back from the closest dealer to me to see what they say. I did find the roller kit on one site here in the US for $726. So if the dealer gives me the thumbs down and and the other is in stock I will go repair with the roller kit since it is only  about $200 more than replacing the flat tappets. I really like the bike my wife is comfy on the back so if I can get this fixed the I will look at what other issues I need to be aware of on it.

And if you CAN'T get the roller kit.
If it's 200 bucks that's gunna' sway you, ring me and I'll help..$$$.

[pete roper]

The Piaggio Rep in California as well as the dealer that I bought the bike from said my vin# is not in the technical service bulletin regarding the lifters.  So I guess I will need to tear bike apart and see for myself if the tappets are bad and if so order the kit myself and just cough up the money.

Jesus wept! Not this shit again!

There was a recall for the original chilled cast iron flat tappets. This was for 2007-early '09 engine. The recall replaced the chilled cast iron tappets with the forged steel with DLC coating flat tappets. THEY STILL FAIL! There was NEVER a recall campaign for the later DLC tappets. After production of flat tappet engines ceased Piaggio released a service bulletin with a 'Technical Update' which suggested that in the unlikely (Ha!) event that the flat tappets failed in a motor and that motor had a FSH they would, at their discretion, provide a kit.

The 'Recall' campaign the shitgibbon Piaggio Rep is talking about is the one for the '07-'09 engine's so of course your 2012 Norge falls outside 'The Range' because it's totally irrelevant! You are being fed an enormous turd sandwich!

Pete

[pete roper]

It still upsets me to read that Piaggio demands the owner have the top end dismantled, and the tappets inspected before they'll provide the kit.  No installation labor costs are covered.  Here's your damned kit.  Period/paragraph. 

This should be a recall where parts and labor are covered.  And based on what we know (and they, they being Piaggio,  know,) there should be a complete engine replacement, especially for higher mileage flat tappet bikes like the one owned by the OP.  Under warranty.

But it's not going to happen Bob. Also spare a thought for the blokes trying to make a living who will be flooded with non paying work sorting out Piaggio's/Aprilias screw up!

Pete

[ohiorider]

But it's not going to happen Bob. Also spare a thought for the blokes trying to make a living who will be flooded with non paying work sorting out Piaggio's/Aprilias screw up!

Pete

Hey, Pete .... I understand that Piaggio won't step up to the plate.  And I do understand what you're saying about them stiffing techs like yourself.  You make the repair. And you wait and wait for reimbursement that may never come.  The thought of techs with your level of talent having to literally fight Piaggio for reimbursement is sad.

Bob

[pete roper]

It's not that it will 'Never come' it's the fact it's given at 'Their' hourly rate which is about 1/2 of mine and only for 'Their' number of hours. It also isn't paid a 'Money' it's given as a credit against your parts account! It's difficult to buy beer with parts for a shitty old Moto Guzzi! 

Pete

[ohiorider]

It's not that it will 'Never come' it's the fact it's given at 'Their' hourly rate which is about 1/2 of mine and only for 'Their' number of hours. It also isn't paid a 'Money' it's given as a credit against your parts account! It's difficult to buy beer with parts for a shitty old Moto Guzzi! 

Pete

I hear ya!  "Barkeep, a round for me and my friends."   As you slam down a fistful of crush washers in payment!  Something wrong with this picture.

Bob

[LBC Tenni]

The Piaggio Rep in California as well as the dealer that I bought the bike from said my vin# is not in the technical service bulletin regarding the lifters.  So I guess I will need to tear bike apart and see for myself if the tappets are bad and if so order the kit myself and just cough up the money.

The unending nonsense and incompetence from Piaggio on this matter is enough to give a man a stroke! Useless crooked bastards! They may as well run for public office!

[blu guzz]

having had a number of beemers, i would say that this is the standard m.o. for european corporate offices.  i will never forget the "surging" issue of the early 1100 and 1150 twins.  first, they blamed the riders for 10 years then they came out with the dual plug fix in 2004, but not to fix the surge, because there perfect machines did not surge, but it was we riders were too unskilled to pilot their perfect machines, but  because of pollution regs or some other corporate b.s.  i had a vw car with a similar issue that many, many other owners had and got the same line of b.s. from them.

[Chuck in Indiana]

having had a number of beemers, i would say that this is the standard m.o. for european corporate offices.  i will never forget the "surging" issue of the early 1100 and 1150 twins.  first, they blamed the riders for 10 years then they came out with the dual plug fix in 2004, but not to fix the surge, because there perfect machines did not surge, but it was we riders were too unskilled to pilot their perfect machines, but  because of pollution regs or some other corporate b.s.  i had a vw car with a similar issue that many, many other owners had and got the same line of b.s. from them.

"There is nothing wrong with that rear shock. These are the finest engineered motorcycles in the world." 
An aftermarket rear shock fixed it at $800. Strangely enough, BMW fixed it on the next model year..

[usedtobefast]

Looks like the OP is in Arkansas ... what's the closest Moto Guzzi dealer that knows what they are talking about?  AF1 in Austin?  Or is there a closer one?

Just thinking ... talk with a knowledgeable MG dealer, long haul to drop off bike,  when all done fly/ride it back home. 

First question to ask a MG service dept is how many of these have they done.  If the head mechanic that works on Guzzi's has never done one, move on. 

[mrv]

The one I've been talking with is in Tulsa, OK. Don't think he has ever dealt with it from the way he talks

[mrv]

Just heard from the dealer I was working with in Tulsa, He basically told me I'm SOL. Because I am not the original owner and the bike is out of warranty. So it will be a waste of time (his perhaps) to continue to pursue this.

[MGrego]

The '12 Norge is easy to convert to roller tappets.  -- You don't even have to remove the heads, just the valve covers.  There is an excellent step by step tutorial with pictures here on the forum to walk you through it, -- courtesy of Pete.  You might take a look at that thread before you decide anything, once you understand that the job to be done isn't terribly complicated or even time consuming, you might opt to do it yourself --  look up "rollerisation of the 8V"

[pete roper]

Just heard from the dealer I was working with in Tulsa, He basically told me I'm SOL. Because I am not the original owner and the bike is out of warranty. So it will be a waste of time (his perhaps) to continue to pursue this.

Technical bulletin #20 from 2013 on the Servicemotoguzzi website. Suggest the person dealing with your issue read it before blurting nonsense. I have screenshots of the bulletin I kept for posterity but since they are subject to copyright and I don't want to risk having my arse sued off I can't post them up. Pity.

Pete

[PJPR01]

The one I've been talking with is in Tulsa, OK. Don't think he has ever dealt with it from the way he talks

May be worth checking with the guys in Dallas or even Mike here at MPH in Houston.  If you can ship the bike down here, I'd bet Mike could take of you, or at the very least, worth a call to him to check in advance.

[mrv]

I have ordered the parts, it's just not viable for me to haul or ship the bike for repair.

[pete roper]

OK, well if you're going to undertakethe job yourself, which is commendable, ASK if you have any doubts or problems. It is fairly straightforward but it's easy to bust stuff if you're rough.

Pete

[mrv]

Luckily growing up in the country and on a farm I learned at a young age how to work on vehicles, plus having mechanics school. I have never taken any of my autos/ bikes for any service work other than warranty work. And even then things did not turn out well with the work that was completed. But be assured I will ask questions that I am unable to figure out, I never stop learning. Thanks again for all the help so far and to come.

[KiwiKev]

Good luck


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[mrv]

Well my vin# might not be included but results still the same.

[Kiwi_Roy]

This is a really interesting thread, sorry you got stiffed with this bike but please keep us posted on the process.


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[guzzisteve]

I hope you sent the pics to Piaggio in CostaMesa.