RPM out of the Guzzi business.

[davevv]

RPM Cycles in Dallas (actually Farmers Branch) is no longer handling Moto Guzzi or Aprilia.  It seems that eleven years of frustration was enough.  It's a shame, as that has been my favorite shop for a long time.  They are now down to Triumph only.

[Green1000S]

Looks like its the current tune.
One dealer per month.

How many months we have left?

[Ncdan]

The second one in my state of NC opened less than a year ago and the sevice manager told me they are already regretting the decision. He said they fear this will hurt their Indian line due to already having pissed customers over the same ole issues. No factory support!!

[rdbandkab]

Triumph only?  Yikes..  I wonder how long that'll sustain the business. 

[Gnirwin]

I am new to the world of Guzzi. I think the problem with Guzzi is several things. They, in many ways are suffering from the same things Harley has been. They have been catering to the responses they hear from current long time owners who want the new bikes to look and ride like old bikes. Their products have been dull for so long but I think mfg's such as Guzzi now realize this and are coming out with bold new products. I wanted to purchase a new bike before I retire. I wanted something light, responsive and not a cookie cutter. I chose the V9 bobber. I've owned some beautiful bikes but I never received as many positive compliments about any of my previous bikes as I have with the Bobber. On another message board when I posted I bought a V9 I received so many negative comments about the same bike I was blown away. All coming from longtime Guzzi owners who haven't bought a new bike in years, maybe never. They thought it was ugly, etc.  I read another review recently on the California and the reviewer commented " it drew allot of interest at the local bike night but strangely only from all the gray haired people". I bet if I took my Bobber to the same bike night it would draw a younger crowd. Guzzi made a big showing at Sturgis and I think we might see more exciting NEW designs in the near future. If not, I dare think what will happen.

[bpreynolds]

Folks. 
I've been and remain an avid Guzzi supporter for these last 14 or more years of driving.  I've owned a ton of them, bought several of them new even.
No matter what even the dealers dropping Guzzi are saying, there is only one main reason the brand gets dropped from anywhere.  Almost nobody buys them.  This is the terrible, sad truth that we all seem to forget when a dealer closes.  To me, it is a kind of joke to claim THIS is the reason the brand gets dropped.  You can talk about ol' crappy Piaggio all ya want, but if general ridrs (people not on this board) were buying the bikes in numbers then the dealer would certainly want to keep the brand around.  Please note, I'm not saying working with Piaggio is easy or profitable, but there is only this main reason the brand gets dropped.  THEY JUST DON'T SELL.  A bike here, a bike there, sure you'll see some of them disappear from dealer floors but over and over and over again I see the same bikes languishing on same said floors.  It's worse now than I remember in my 14 years of loving Guzzi.  You can't make a profit on selling 5 - 8 bikes a year.  My damn local Harley dealer seems to replenish their floor each week.  I'm just saying, the board here always decries dealer availability, parts availability, delay of payment on warranty work, etc.  It don't matter.  Maybe it matters as a determining factor to folks on this board (enthusiasts) when purchasing  Maybe that's a final nail in the coffin for a dealer's decision to drop.  But at base, the heart of the matter is THEY JUST  DON'T SELL.  Guzzi is a niche and it will alwyas be a niche.  Sadly.

[JJ]

Stopped by ol' Jim Knaupp's shop, Powersports Outlet, in Prescott, AZ last week.  He is moving to a bigger building closer to town soon. 

This is probably only a handful of the true "Mom & Pop" enthusiasts shops left in the country.

[davevv]

Folks. 
I've been and remain an avid Guzzi supporter for these last 14 or more years of driving.  I've owned a ton of them, bought several of them new even.
No matter what even the dealers dropping Guzzi are saying, there is only one main reason the brand gets dropped from anywhere.  Almost nobody buys them.  This is the terrible, sad truth that we all seem to forget when a dealer closes.  To me, it is a kind of joke to claim THIS is the reason the brand gets dropped.  You can talk about ol' crappy Piaggio all ya want, but if general ridrs (people not on this board) were buying the bikes in numbers then the dealer would certainly want to keep the brand around.  Please note, I'm not saying working with Piaggio is easy or profitable, but there is only this main reason the brand gets dropped.  THEY JUST DON'T SELL.  A bike here, a bike there, sure you'll see some of them disappear from dealer floors but over and over and over again I see the same bikes languishing on same said floors.  It's worse now than I remember in my 14 years of loving Guzzi.  You can't make a profit on selling 5 - 8 bikes a year.  My damn local Harley dealer seems to replenish their floor each week.  I'm just saying, the board here always decries dealer availability, parts availability, delay of payment on warranty work, etc.  It don't matter.  Maybe it matters as a determining factor to folks on this board (enthusiasts) when purchasing  Maybe that's a final nail in the coffin for a dealer's decision to drop.  But at base, the heart of the matter is THEY JUST  DON'T SELL.  Guzzi is a niche and it will alwyas be a niche.  Sadly.

Exactly.  I've bought four bikes from RPM over the years, three of them new.  Two Guzzis (one used), a Triumph, and my Motus.  In their best year, RPM sold 23 new Guzzis.  The main complaint they have with Piaggio is that they don't market the Moto Guzzi brand well.  They don't advertise enough or in the right places, so they don't generate any new interest in the brand and even most riders don't know anything about them. 

rdbandkdb--I'm not really concerned about RPM's future.  They were a successful Triumph only dealer before they took on the other brands and the Triumph business is still good.  It has cooled my desire to own the new V85 quite a bit though.  My closest dealer now is in Austin.

[rtbickel]

Well that stinks.  Now it appears that the Guzzi dealer closest to me is AF1 in Austin, 200 miles away.  I bought my 1400 Touring from RPM and they have given great service on the Special Sport too.    I was in there a couple of months ago getting the state inspection and they had just dropped their Honda franchise.  I was on their list for a V85 test ride and that may change the purchase equation - first year bike with no local support might make me wait it out until they are well sorted (har har; or more, at least) from the factory.  Looks like Eurosport in Ft. Worth is also out of the Guzzi biz. 

[JohninVT]

There's always doom and gloom about dealers.  Dealers go in and out of business or change brands carried all the time.  It's just that so few carry Guzzi that they're noticed more when it happens.   

[JJ]

QUOTE:  Guzzi is a niche and it will alwyas be a niche.  Sadly.

Yes...and going out of business since 1921!!

[timonbik]

If Guzzi or any manufacturer wants to survive in todays market they will have to pull up their boot straps with better quality control and customer support.   Buying a $20,000 bike then having to sort it is ludicrous.  WE THE FAITHFUL accept this because Guzzi has always been that way but that doesn't make it right.  A new bike shouldn't need the ECU reflashed or fuel injection shouldn't need remapping and alternators or running lights should not have to be rewired.  We wouldn't accept that with a new car that costs much less than that so why should it be acceptable for a bike.  HD to their credit got their act together and their sales reflected the improvement. Remember the AMF days.  Bikes now actually run half decent right out of the box.  The next generation, millennials, Xers, whatever are not budding mechanics.   They are used to driving mom and dad's Honda car and never having to look under the hood never mind fix anything.  Guzzi like any manufacturer also has to take responsibility for their failings, read hydro lifters, flat tappets, swing arm bearings.  Remember the saying, once burned twice shy.  Satisfied owners are your best advertisers but disgruntled owners are also the worst.  If you were a new rider and went on this forum, you probably wouldn't buy a Guzzi based on what you read here.  Too many systemic problems with new bikes and lack of dealer/manufacturer support would send them running. 
I love my Breva 750 and have considered buying a new Guzzi but the lack of dealer support in my area makes me hesitant and the lack of dealers through out Canada would make me nervous while touring.
Just my 2 cents worth,

Tim

[Gliderjohn]

From timonbik:

Guzzi like any manufacturer also has to take responsibility for their failings, read hydro lifters, flat tappets, swing arm bearings.

That would be a great start. I am willing to except some minor stuff as they are a toy for most of us and if you have any history with Guzzi, well...you know the deal.
I had to pay full boat on my roller job which sucks. That should have been a fully covered recall, no questions asked. Would have been from any auto company. Guess until someone is willing to go to the trouble and expense of suing them they really do not have any gun to their head to do different. Should not have to be that way.
GliderJohn

[Rough Edge racing]

 Well, if you can still buy parts...learn to fix you own bike...It may be the price to pay for owning something oddball...If you can't get parts and or fix your own, then perhaps you need to buy another brand of bike..

[timonbik]

Well, if you can still buy parts...learn to fix you own bike...It may be the price to pay for owning something oddball...If you can't get parts and or fix your own, then perhaps you need to buy another brand of bike..

That works for when you are in your home area, but what if yo are a 1000 miles from home and the nearest dealer is 500 miles away and you have limited tools.  Not a great scenario.   Bikes today are not like the old ones where you could go to the local TSC store and find something the rig a repair.  Heck, most second line motorcycle repairs shops can't or aren't able work on much of the new stuff as computers/ specialized diagnostic tools are required.  Besides many people don't want to work on their bikes and I myself find I get less and less satisfaction wrenching my bikes.  I'd rather ride.  I am not an HD fan but their model is great.  Dealer within sight of the highway every 50-100 miles.  Owners never feel left in the cold.  Your argument supports exactly what is happening.  The limited buyers are buying other brands and MG dealers are suffering the consequences and dropping the line which in turn makes dealer support even sparser.
Tim

[AH Fan]

If Guzzi or any manufacturer wants to survive in todays market they will have to pull up their boot straps with better quality control and customer support.   Buying a $20,000 bike then having to sort it is ludicrous.  WE THE FAITHFUL accept this because Guzzi has always been that way but that doesn't make it right.  A new bike shouldn't need the ECU reflashed or fuel injection shouldn't need remapping and alternators or running lights should not have to be rewired.  We wouldn't accept that with a new car that costs much less than that so why should it be acceptable for a bike.  HD to their credit got their act together and their sales reflected the improvement. Remember the AMF days.  Bikes now actually run half decent right out of the box.  The next generation, millennials, Xers, whatever are not budding mechanics.   They are used to driving mom and dad's Honda car and never having to look under the hood never mind fix anything.  Guzzi like any manufacturer also has to take responsibility for their failings, read hydro lifters, flat tappets, swing arm bearings.  Remember the saying, once burned twice shy.  Satisfied owners are your best advertisers but disgruntled owners are also the worst.  If you were a new rider and went on this forum, you probably wouldn't buy a Guzzi based on what you read here.  Too many systemic problems with new bikes and lack of dealer/manufacturer support would send them running. 
I love my Breva 750 and have considered buying a new Guzzi but the lack of dealer support in my area makes me hesitant and the lack of dealers through out Canada would make me nervous while touring.
Just my 2 cents worth,

Tim

Well BMW seems to make it work...…….. their junk is three times the price and about as reliable??
I hope they can manage staying niche, not everyone wants to own a Honda……..jmtc

Ciao

[TN Mark]

Well, if you can still buy parts...learn to fix you own bike...It may be the price to pay for owning something oddball...If you can't get parts and or fix your own, then perhaps you need to buy another brand of bike..

Perhaps that may have been the case for Ural and Royal Enfield in years past. But even those bikes now typically function properly right away. if a Moto Guzzi owner needs to be an internet forum member to learn the ins and outs of fixing their own bike because the dealer network is that poor, Moto Guzzi will need to get down to Ural pricing to survive.

I've been away from Moto Guzzi and from spending much time on this forum for over 5 years. As has been posted by others, if Moto Guzzi is to survive, it may not be from many of the forum members. From when I was Chicago Mark and active here to reading new posts now, the attitude, negativity and general grumpiness on the forum has taken a serious downturn.

I sincerely hope for a bright future for the Moto Guzzi brand. I also hope those at Piaggio working to design new bikes for a new generation of customers pay little attention to internet forums. Of course if the bikes aren't right out of the crate and the dealership network is in shambles, it won't really matter.       

It's a real bummer to read that RPM has left the Moto Guzzi brand. I saw my first red and black Eldorado their just a few months ago and fell in love with the bike. It's also awful that a dealer like Moto International is out of business completely. Sure, new dealers will come on board. You can fill openings fairly easily but you cannot fill the knowledge void from those who left or are now gone easily or quickly.

[bpreynolds]

The bikes are fine.  Better than fine, actually.  Probably 90k miles on 11 different ones here.  Not a single breakdown.  Not one.  The 11 I've owned have been far more reliable than most any other motorcycle brand I've had.  Let me restate, it's not the dealer network, parts availability, warranty payments, nor the bikes not "being right" as to why they don't sell.  They don't sell because they are Guzzis.  I've always been kinda happy with that fact but not if it means the company goes out of business.  I'm not really worried about them going out of business; rather, I'm more worried they would could very well see a time in the distant future when they don't come back across the pond for a year or two.  That would be sad. 

[Joliet Jim]

Perhaps that may have been the case for Ural and Royal Enfield in years past. But even those bikes now typically function properly right away. if a Moto Guzzi owner needs to be an internet forum member to learn the ins and outs of fixing their own bike because the dealer network is that poor, Moto Guzzi will need to get down to Ural pricing to survive.

I've been away from Moto Guzzi and from spending much time on this forum for over 5 years. As has been posted by others, if Moto Guzzi is to survive, it may not be from many of the forum members. From when I was Chicago Mark and active here to reading new posts now, the attitude, negativity and general grumpiness on the forum has taken a serious downturn.

I sincerely hope for a bright future for the Moto Guzzi brand. I also hope those at Piaggio working to design new bikes for a new generation of customers pay little attention to internet forums. Of course if the bikes aren't right out of the crate and the dealership network is in shambles, it won't really matter.       

It's a real bummer to read that RPM has left the Moto Guzzi brand. I saw my first red and black Eldorado their just a few months ago and fell in love with the bike. It's also awful that a dealer like Moto International is out of business completely. Sure, new dealers will come on board. You can fill openings fairly easily but you cannot fill the knowledge void from those who left or are now gone easily or quickly.

Is this the original Bassa Mark, I wondered what happened to you after you bought the Valkrie

[Rough Edge racing]

That works for when you are in your home area, but what if yo are a 1000 miles from home and the nearest dealer is 500 miles away and you have limited tools.  Not a great scenario.

  Lannis on this site takes long trips on a 50's BSA A10...Ask him what he would do in case of a breakdown...It's not like you're going to fix a bad generator or magneto with bailing wire...

[LowRyter]

Man, RPM used to be a super dealer.  Now they've dropped everything else, including Honda, to sell Triumphs?

I talked to a local guy that plans to open a Guzzi franchise next year.  He was originally planning to go full Piaggio and determined that he should continue to rely on his service business and offer a small floorplan for Guzzi.  We'll see how that goes.

I only bring this up because we are down to a single Yamaha store in OKC, the 2nd one about 30 miles out of town.  So I asked him about that.  He said in fact he was contacted by Suzuki.  His reluctance is due to the high volume pressure to sell lots of bikes and he doesn't think that Yamaha or Suzuki would fit his business model. 

It looks like the sword cuts both ways. 

[TN Mark]

Is this the original Bassa Mark, I wondered what happened to you after you bought the Valkrie

Yes sir. I don't remember what screen name I used before Bassa Mark. Then it was Chicago Mark after the Bassa went away. That was, by the way, the biggest Moto Guzzi mistake I ever made. I should never have let that blue/silver Bassa go. Now it's TN Mark after we moved to the Chattanooga area four years ago.

[not-fishing]

That works for when you are in your home area, but what if yo are a 1000 miles from home and the nearest dealer is 500 miles away and you have limited tools.  Not a great scenario. 

On many rides that is the scenario I have in the back of my mind.  Still I know that all I have to do is stash the bike, long bus ride home and come out with the pickup & ramps (or in one case have a son drive the pickup/ramps out to me)

Also this "many dealers close by" utopia is a sham.  My brother bought a Nissan 2018 diesel truck and it spent weeks of it's first year waiting for parts, waiting for new ECU mapping and waiting until Nissan figured out how to fix it.  Oh and we have 4 dealerships within a 1/2 hour drive

The days of the air cooled VW Beetle have long past.

Mark

[rdbandkab]

Dealers go in and out of business or change brands carried all the time

I wish one would "go in" in the Pittsburgh area.

I think the Piaggio "floorplan" was what pushed Speakers Cycle out.  Jason and Dan had an extremely small shop over in Ohio...probably too small for Piaggio's floorplan. But Jason was a tech you would trust to get your bike sorted or serviced.  I could actually ride over on my lunch hour and BS with Dan.
I wouldn't hesitate to put money down on a new one if they were still around.   I just want that feeling that someone (other than the forum) has my back if I'm in difficulties.

richy

[kidsmoke]

Just to add 'pertinent market research' to the discussion. I was able to have a long casual conversation with a dealer recently, and asked what is behind the notion that Piaggio is difficult and makes dealing for them a problem. The response was a shrug, and that his experience was the complete opposite.

Around that time I learned that Indianapolis is getting a Guzzi dealer. So, there are those willing to roll the dice, it would seem.

I would agree that general market awareness is the enemy, nobody buys 'em as Brian says, and Piaggio has the resources, but hasn't found the marketing visionary to market to North America yet.

Case in point, watching the tradeshow videos of the V85, which are flying everywhere, the first thing that jumps out at you (or, me anyway) is the busty babes in skin tight leather pants and tshirts, astride the bikes and arcing their backs accordingly. Sorry but those days are fleeting. In Vegas three weeks ago, for a domestic trade show, where that sort of bling was always a staple, there was none. You look at the Guzzi promo stuff and it's all about Gucci/Calvin Klein STYLE/SEX stuff. Coifed dudes leaning on walls staring at their static bikes...

This sold me. I was very young and knew jack about bikes. Sex had nothing to do with it.

https://youtu.be/iORT5E6Hbkc

[TN Mark]

IMHO, Piaggio does spend money on advertising Moto Guzzi and getting themselves in the magazines. For 3 years in a row they even brought a demo fleet to Sturgis. The issue for many is that the bikes tend to look great but ride a bit awkward compared to the H-D, Indian, Honda, Kawasaki, BMW, Yamaha, Suzuki etc the rider already owns. But that 'may' not a deal breaker. But it could be when the event demo rider or the respondent to any social or print media Marketing goes on the internet. Once on the Moto Guzzi website they soon realize they likely may not have a dealer in their entire state.

I have a Moto Guzzi dealer about 2.5 hours North or me and another about 2.5 hours south. The one south of me has not a single clue about anything Moto Guzzi other than what the salesman told me: "these 'things' sure are hard to sell". There's a sales pitch for you. I've been to the multi brand dealer North of me several times over the last four years. I have yet to talk to a single sales rep their that knew nearly anything about any of the dozen plus brands they carry. On my last visit the salesman bemoaned how "crazy" the owner is to accept all the V7 variants from Piaggio. When I asked about the 1400 I was told they "seldom carry them but when we do they tend to sell well". Huh? Over stock yourself with V7's that move slow by your own admission but rarely stock a 1400 that according to you move well. Sorry, no dealer confidence their either. 

For me to consider a new Moto Guzzi at this point just doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus the only one I really like (2016 Red/Black Eldorado) is now 3 model years old. Polaris put Victory out of business but owning one is still as easy and as simple as can be. Dealer network? Even for a dead brand like Victory it's head and shoulders above Moto Guzzi in their hayday.

Maybe some of you guys have it right. Forget the new Moto Guzzi bikes and look for a G5.
   

[Toecutter]

Folks. 
I've been and remain an avid Guzzi supporter for these last 14 or more years of driving.  I've owned a ton of them, bought several of them new even.
No matter what even the dealers dropping Guzzi are saying, there is only one main reason the brand gets dropped from anywhere.  Almost nobody buys them.  This is the terrible, sad truth that we all seem to forget when a dealer closes.  To me, it is a kind of joke to claim THIS is the reason the brand gets dropped.  You can talk about ol' crappy Piaggio all ya want, but if general ridrs (people not on this board) were buying the bikes in numbers then the dealer would certainly want to keep the brand around.  Please note, I'm not saying working with Piaggio is easy or profitable, but there is only this main reason the brand gets dropped.  THEY JUST DON'T SELL.  A bike here, a bike there, sure you'll see some of them disappear from dealer floors but over and over and over again I see the same bikes languishing on same said floors.  It's worse now than I remember in my 14 years of loving Guzzi.  You can't make a profit on selling 5 - 8 bikes a year.  My damn local Harley dealer seems to replenish their floor each week.  I'm just saying, the board here always decries dealer availability, parts availability, delay of payment on warranty work, etc.  It don't matter.  Maybe it matters as a determining factor to folks on this board (enthusiasts) when purchasing  Maybe that's a final nail in the coffin for a dealer's decision to drop.  But at base, the heart of the matter is THEY JUST  DON'T SELL.  Guzzi is a niche and it will alwyas be a niche.  Sadly.

Guzzis ARE selling. But the Guzzis that are selling are the Guzzis that the old guard sneer at. The V7s (silly little hipster bikes) and the V9s.

However, you can't ignore the fact that the single most common complaint amongst owners, both new and old IS … Piaggio and their incredibly crappy support.  6 month wait times for warranty parts? Incorrect parts sent for warranty replacement? Come on. That sort of business model is aggravating as hell for customers... I can't even imagine how it feels as an independent dealer/service shop.  Don't even get me started on the "let's shut down for a month in the middle of riding season"... local tradition be damned when we're talking about an international market and a worldwide customer base. I'm convinced my preferred dealer only carries the line because he likes it and has enough sales in other brands to allow him to give up a bit of space for Guzzi.

At gatherings and bike nights, I've lost count of how many people beeline for the V7, love it, absolutely LOVE it. But then, inevitably, at every single bike night, that conversation draws people, and slowly turns to... the incredibly shitty support shown by Piaggio. Someone in the crowd will bring it up. Always. In the moto community word of mouth carries weight.


Now, of course, someone who hasn't purchased a new Guzzi in a decade will drop the "Going out of business since the 1920s" cliche... and so be it. Maybe the old guard wants "their" bike to remain an elite symbol. I don't know. But i do know that if it was MY dollar paying the lease on a shop, if it was MY dollar being spread over limited square footage to put food on my table, I'd have to think long and hard before jumping in bed with Piaggio.

[LowRyter]

TC, good point but since most of us here are riding 1000-1100-1200 cc bikes, means that Guzzi doesn't sell those anymore.

I wouldn't say the customers left the brand as much as the brand as left the customers. 

[JJ]

QUOTE:  Now, of course, someone who hasn't purchased a new Guzzi in a decade will drop the "Going out of business since the 1920s" cliche... and so be it.

Interesting to think about that...Of the five Guzzi's I have ever owned and ridden over the years , only two (2) were purchased brand new:  Back in the day, a 1978 850 Le Mans...and a 2002 V11 Le Mans.  All the rest were used...

[Toecutter]

I think it's important to keep in mind that the modern demographic is MASSIVELY different than anything prior to Gen X.

This is a group of people in an intense economic environment, in crowded, growing cities. They've been raised recycling, reusing and conserving. They want fuel efficient, compact, sensible machines. They still want fun, they still want bikes... but they don't have the kind of expendable income that Boomers have.

Saying that Guzzi "left" their customer base is ridiculous. Look at how successful the V7 has been for them. I'd say they've done a pretty good job of changing with the times, in terms of their bikes.