Author Topic: 1400 Griso motor's running......  (Read 9027 times)

pete roper

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1400 Griso motor's running......
« on: November 19, 2017, 08:58:16 PM »
In Mark's bike. Early days, we may have to iron out a few niggles but I'm reasonably confident it'll be OK.

I'm not going to list exactly what was involved, simply say it was considerably more difficult than I at first envisioned. If anyone wants us to build them one we can. It isn't cheap.

Nor will we make any stupid HP claims for it. It'll probably make about the same peak HP as the 1200. Once Mark has mapped it up we'll have a better idea but we're expecting a good improvement where it matters.

Pete

Offline ITSec

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 09:08:29 PM »

Nor will we make any stupid HP claims for it. It'll probably make about the same peak HP as the 1200. Once Mark has mapped it up we'll have a better idea but we're expecting a good improvement where it matters.


Good on ya' , mate!

Now, my question is what you see as 'where it matters'? Besides the obvious satisfaction of accomplishment and the reward of having our building something unique, what was the objective and how will you know you've reached it?

In any case, I'm sure it will be a massively cool final product...
ITSecurity
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Offline Phang

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 10:01:41 PM »
well done guys, does it keep the 1200 engine appearance from the outside?
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 10:47:42 PM »
Appearance is unchanged, what we're expecting is a nice fattening up in bottom end and midrange torque.

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 10:47:42 PM »

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 10:51:33 PM »
[youtube]hUb6mm8JR_4[/youtube]

Dunno how to embed it.

Offline Phang

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 10:59:39 PM »
I tried a search for "hUb6mm8JR_4" at youtube, but no luck...

I just tried that too

from 1511cc to 1380cc, that's almost 20% increment  :thumb:
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 11:11:27 PM »
The vid's up on the Ghetto. S'not very exciting but. You can see it's a goer though. It's very quiet mechanically which is probably down to the new chains. No doubt after 10,000km it'll rattle as much as any of 'em :grin:

Pete

Offline Phang

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 11:17:06 PM »
https://youtu.be/hUb6mm8JR_4


here's the YouTube link


I like it, looks understated
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 11:35:16 PM »
It's even more black than it was before as we powder coated the frame while it was apart. Mark has his bodywork off at the painter at the moment. Not sure what he settled on but I believe there are orange highlights. He got a bit sick of some of the tripe here and spat the dummy so we can't ask him here but I'll relay pics when we've finished tittivating it!

Pete

Offline Phang

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2017, 11:46:06 PM »
was it an engine out operation? I guess it's not a straight forward barrels and pistons swap

I won't ask further  :afro:

2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 11:58:13 PM »
Nope. It's pretty much a new engine. I'll email you with details if I can find your address  :rolleyes:. The only thing is that preventing me from being more transparent is that AFAIK we're the only ones who have actually built a motor like this and previous experience with being generous with information has led to my work being plagiarised and stolen, (I submit the V11 sloppage sheet as a prime example.).

This project has cost me literally thousands of bucks and a considerable amount of time and machine work as well as calling in favours from mates. If I tell everybody how to do it the next thing you know the same thing will end up being advertised as someone else's product/idea with their name and logo next to it. Sorry, Fuque that!

Pete

Offline Phang

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 12:10:54 AM »
my Kit C is still on the shelf, I thought it's a good idea to upgrade to 1400 when I 'finally' rollerise it, only if it is a simple change of barrels and pistons

1200 is more than enough for me, the extra 200cc is bragging rights and curiosity
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 12:13:33 AM »
Stickers that say '1400' are cheap! :grin:

Offline Phang

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 12:27:11 AM »
motorcycle bigger than 200cc is antisocial here

a sticker telling people that your bike has a 1400cc engine will be held responsible for melting the ice cap of the poles
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

Offline John A

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 07:31:26 PM »
It sounds like it'll be fun to ride, be hard to avoid speeding tickets!
Put some 750cc stickers on it :evil:
John
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Offline lucian

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 08:10:11 PM »
Nice work Pete.  Don't want to pry, but was it necessary to twin plug it?   Also I did the math, and it seems Beetle can pack on 70 lbs. and still have the same hp to weight ratio he's used to.  :boozing:

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 09:24:42 PM »
No need to twin plug. Single spark works just fine. There were a fair few modifications and some machining involved though. It's not an easy or cheap swap. At retail prices in $AU a rough guess would make it 3.5-4K for parts and 35-40 hours of labour, (Our rate is $115PH.). That's just build time, none of the investigative or problem solving time in that.

I'll let you do the sums. :grin:

Also I want to make sure it's recognised that most of the work that went into the build is down to Michael. After the crank was in the case I effectively let him run with it. It's as much his project as mine. He'll be taking the reigns in a couple of years when I retire, he's a very good technician.

Pete

Offline SED

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 09:39:13 PM »
That's cool!  Didn't expect it to spin up so quick and quiet.   :thumb:
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Offline AH Fan

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 11:06:44 PM »
Nope. It's pretty much a new engine. I'll email you with details if I can find your address  :rolleyes:. The only thing is that preventing me from being more transparent is that AFAIK we're the only ones who have actually built a motor like this and previous experience with being generous with information has led to my work being plagiarised and stolen, (I submit the V11 sloppage sheet as a prime example.).

This project has cost me literally thousands of bucks and a considerable amount of time and machine work as well as calling in favours from mates. If I tell everybody how to do it the next thing you know the same thing will end up being advertised as someone else's product/idea with their name and logo next to it. Sorry, Fuque that!

Pete


Good on ya Pete ........... keep it quiet until its all good.
Then charge accordingly     :bow:

Ciao

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 03:11:26 AM »
That's cool!  Didn't expect it to spin up so quick and quiet.   :thumb:

The now very old maxim that it has to be loud to perform well we've proven to be bullshit with this engine. Regardless of swept volume the cams and head design are what govern its performance. Sure, if you run a wide open pipe of a carefully selected length and volume you may get a few more peak HP. How often do you ride at WFO on the road? With a dBk and map built to suit you can end up with serious fat where it matters on the road. I suppose it's all down to if you want to have fun on the road or to show off the fact that you have *Challenges* in other aspects of your life.

Quiet is good, in many ways, but we'll be willing to compromise in absolute volume if the 1400 requires it to be 'Louder'. I'll bet a bucket full of beauty that the best 'Streetable' option on this engine won't be much noisier than the 1200 it is replacing. What would I know though....

Pete

Offline nobleswood

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 10:50:34 AM »
 :popcorn:

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pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2017, 08:40:52 PM »
Well I took it out for a little squirt this morning :evil: managed to get the back end to step out in first at a very small throttle opening and low revs so yes, I think it will make considerably more torque. Unsurprisingly it feels a bit lean, (It's running Mark's 'One Off' uber-map built for his 1200 motor.) but he's pulling some numbers out of his arse as I type this so it'll be hopefully a bit rich rather than a bit lean for the ride back to Wagga. Due to its experimental nature I may pace him in the van, just in case.

Weirdest thing is that it's so uncannily quiet! Must be the new chains! I'm sure it'll rattle like a bastard soon enough.

I'll try and get a little video tomorrow when he picks it up. I'm not allowed to post pics yet as it has a new colour scheme that is, errr? 'Striking!'. I like it!!! :boozing: :cool:

Pete

Offline pete mcgee

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2017, 08:54:18 PM »
Quiet is good.
Nothing like a quiet Q ship to make an impression on the screaming eagle crowd.
I at times wished I still lived down there so I could pop in and have a look, then I remember winters and go nah....
Has this extravaganza of parts and ingenuity got a market or are you thoroughly bored with mundane servicing and rocker conversions and just said bugger it lets build it for something very different?
Hope it all goes well.
Pete (no not the Bungendore one)


Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people look intelligent until you hear them speak....

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2017, 10:19:55 PM »
Look, it's not simple by a long chalk. A lot of money for parts, then machining and modifications. The 1200 and 1400 are very different in a host of ways.

Once it's been mapped and tested I'll be able to make an assessment of whether in fact it's 'Worth' it or not. If it is? Then we'll offer to build them for anyone that wants one. If we adjudge that it's not really worth it? We'll say so and discourage people from wasting their money but if they still want to follow through? Of course we'll build them for people.

We don't know yet whether it's going to fly into a million pieces though so until we know for sure it's all moot.

Pete

beetle

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 11:03:58 PM »

We don't know yet whether it's going to fly into a million pieces though so until we know for sure it's all moot.


I'd better not end up with a rod up the chuff.   :shocked:

oldbike54

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 11:07:14 PM »

I'd better not end up with a rod up the chuff.   :shocked:

  :laugh: If that happens we are gonna need pics  :evil:

 Dusty

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2017, 11:36:22 PM »
Well don't run it with a 9,000 redline! The pistons are 37 grammes heavier than the 1200. You do the bloody math!  :evil:

Pete

beetle

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2017, 11:43:24 PM »
Well don't run it with a 9,000 redline! The pistons are 37 grammes heavier than the 1200. You do the bloody math!  :evil:


No need to have a conniption.  :laugh:

I've set the redline at 8000.  :rolleyes:

pete roper

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2017, 12:22:41 AM »
S'all good! I reckon the real fun will be between 3.8 and about 7. Above that VE will drop off sharply and worse than the 1200 but in that range I think the 'Pull down the front of the Royal Hotel" scenario will be realisable.  :evil: Who knows? The rods are nicely engineered, they may be up to more than that. While I don't want to destruction test it the long and the short of it is that you never know when they're going to blow, until you blow one up! :thumb:

Pete

beetle

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Re: 1400 Griso motor's running......
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 02:23:01 AM »
I set the rev limit to 8250, so I could log data at 8000. It's gets to 8250 very quickly.

Iteration 4 map. Bugger me lonesome, it's smooth. It's like a 1-speed auto. It pulls like a big...pulling thing. There's no need to change gears once you're in 6th. Crack the throttle open from 2000 and it goes like a dog shot up the arse.


 :thumb:

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