For the Pilots Down Under, Have You Flown One of These?...

[Bonaventure]

I lust for one of these.  Here in USA they are in the Light Sport category, and as far as I'm concerned are the most capable airplane in that class as far as practicality.  Based off the "4 seat" J430, over here the 430 is only available as a kit homebuild.  The J230 is just the 430 factory built with no rear seat and penciled into the LS category with gross weight lowered to 1320 lbs or whatever. 

Believe the pictured are the pre-2014 model with the larger vertical stabilizer.  They improved that such that much less rudder input is needed with the newer tail.

I give you, the Jabiru J230D, one of Australia's best aviation products:

[Tusayan]

I'll withhold comments about flying qualities and Jabiru reliability  and instead, emphasizing the positive, say that if you want an Australian designed plane I think you'd probably be happy with one of these. 

[Lannis]

Listen all!   This is the truth of it.

This is the pinnacle of Aussie aircraft design and execution.   WHO else could do this?



Lannis

[voncrump]

Listen all!   This is the truth of it.

This is the pinnacle of Aussie aircraft design and execution.   WHO else could do this?



Lannister

The Kiwis. This was originally designed in New Zealand as the Bennett Airtruck. Later the design was built in Australia as the Transavia Airtruck. It was designed that way to help prevent the common top dresser crash result of the pilot being crushed between the engine and the load. The early top dressing planes had a lot of mishaps.
Cheers, voncrump

[Huzo]

Yes to the Jabiru and Victa Airtourer.

[Sasquatch Jim]

 I just re watched beyond Thunderdrome last night on TV.
 I always wondered where the pilot got that plane.

[Bonaventure]

I'll withhold comments about flying qualities and Jabiru reliability  and instead, emphasizing the positive, say that if you want an Australian designed plane I think you'd probably be happy with one of these. 

Took demo ride in a J230D at the Midwest LSA Expo @ KMVA in 2014, at that time the demo plane was the first yr of the new vert stab design.  Although I hld a PP-ASEL and my 3rd class medical was in force at the time, I was not current and absurdly overdue for a check ride.  I would renew my 3rd class medical every two yrs with the plan to setup dual time with a CFI and get current again but continued putting it off, as I still do.  However the demo pilot from JabiruUSA in Tennessee was a CFI so I got some stick time once he put us in cruise flight.  I felt the airplane to be rather twitchy but then the conditions that day could have been adding to that.  I was smitten by the fact it featured a 2 axis AP slaved to the Garmin MFD/GPS combo.  I know the Australian aviation authority restricted the them due to engine failures, I think, but that has since been lifted I believe.  Always felt the engine itself was a breathe of fresh air against all the Rotax mills out there in homebuilt and LSA land.  A true blue direct drive six cyl aircraft engine, like a baby Continental or Lycoming. None of it really matters for me, won't start throwing money down the aviation hole again.   Just dreamin', and like the J230...

[Steph]

Listen all!   This is the truth of it.

This is the pinnacle of Aussie aircraft design and execution.   WHO else could do this?



Lannis

Spin recovery must be challenge with such a small/short tail

[Gliderjohn]

Total surface area of the two tails would be pretty close the size of the plane. Concerning either stall or spin recovery I would be more concerned about the high placement of the horizontal stabilizers due to the wings blocking airflow over them at a high angle of attack.
GliderJohn

[Huzo]

Total surface area of the two tails would be pretty close the size of the plane. Concerning either stall or spin recovery I would be more concerned about the high placement of the horizontal stabilizers due to the wings blocking airflow over them at a high angle of attack.
GliderJohn

Very good comment...
I guess if the elevators are blanketed by the wing vortices they should lose effectiveness and allow a/c to pitch forward to a recovery attitude, but as you say would be a hair raising affair.
Have you ever spun a Janus with full flying tailplane. It pitches up and down during spin as elevator enters and exits smooth air...
Disconcerting at first.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Very good comment...
I guess if the elevators are blanketed by the wing vortices they should lose effectiveness and allow a/c to pitch forward to a recovery attitude, but as you say would be a hair raising affair.
Have you ever spun a Janus with full flying tailplane. It pitches up and down during spin as elevator enters and exits smooth air...
Disconcerting at first.

[/b]
No. I would not like that.  Note to self. Do not fly a Janus..

[Huzo]

[/b]
No. I would not like that.  Note to self. Do not fly a Janus..

Yeah, if you move the stick forward to un stall the wing during a down pitch, it really does go past vertical. Do it on an up pitch and the recovery is quite benign.

[rodekyll]

Wouldn't you know that Luigi designed the original Bennett Airtruck? 

[Huzo]

image hosting

[/b]
No. I would not like that.  Note to self. Do not fly a Janus..

They are bloody lovely, as are most Gliders.
Get your anus in a Janus...

[Murray]

Very good comment...
I guess if the elevators are blanketed by the wing vortices they should lose effectiveness and allow a/c to pitch forward to a recovery attitude, but as you say would be a hair raising affair.
Have you ever spun a Janus with full flying tailplane. It pitches up and down during spin as elevator enters and exits smooth air...
Disconcerting at first.

The SZD36a Cobra did similar things although it also had massive elevator authority (i.e. don't trim full forward for takeoff you won't be able to fight it) rudder not so much, if you'd let it do enough turns full opposite rudder wouldn't stop the rotation you needed stick forward to regain flying speed.

[KiwiKev]

The Kiwis. This was originally designed in New Zealand as the Bennett Airtruck. Later the design was built in Australia as the Transavia Airtruck. It was designed that way to help prevent the common top dresser crash result of the pilot being crushed between the engine and the load. The early top dressing planes had a lot of mishaps.
Cheers, voncrump

Yeh the Aussies pinch all our good inventions

[Murray]

Yeh the Aussies pinch all our good inventions

Well why would you take the crap ones?   

[Tusayan]

Yeh the Aussies pinch all our good inventions

Note that the Airtourer about which I posted above was designed and produced by Victa in Australia, before later being produced by AESL in New Zealand 

The design was then modified and powered-up to create a military version, the CT/4 Airtrainer, which was sold back to the RAAF as well as the RNZAF.

[KiwiKev]

Well why would you take the crap ones?   

They take them too :-)

Interesting reading about the air truck though cobbled together from old Harvard bits. I thought we made more of them but only a couple of prototypes.

Fletchers are our most successful home grown aircraft I thought but originate from the US I see.

[Gliderjohn]

I have quite a few flights in a Slingsby Swallow which is a primary single seat all wood glider. For being a "primary" glider it has very sensitive pitch control at tow speed. When first flying it you can get into a serious PIO (pilot induced oscillation) right after leaving the ground if you aren't prepared for it. The first time one of our club members flew it she PIOed it into the runway destroying the glider and breaking her ankles even though she had been well versed beforehand about that characteristic. Most were not sad to see it go.
GliderJohn

[Tusayan]

Fletchers are our most successful home grown aircraft I thought but originate from the US I see.

NZ seems to have a history of producing designs from elsewhere, but doing it at least somewhat economically successfully when the original designer did not do so.  The Pacific Aerospace Fletcher derivatives sell and a guy I know flies one dropping parachutists in the US.  Another example is the aluminum Alpha 160A, a French Robin design which was produced for a while in NZ although it seems to have dropped off the map again.  Also warbird restorations and production. I think that's a cool niche.

A guy I know in Florida has an ex-RCAF Slingsby Firefly.  I'd prefer an AESL Airtrainer  The British say there's nothing at all wrong with them, or that it's only some variants and so on, but you do hear a lot of stories.  The guy I know flies his conservatively and so faces no big issues.

[Steph]

A guy I know in Florida has an ex-RCAF Slingsby Firefly.  I'd prefer an AESL Airtrainer  The British say there's nothing at all wrong with them, or that it's only some variants and so on, but you do hear a lot of stories.  The guy I know flies his conservatively and so faces no big issues.

From memory, the RCAF version of the Slingsby only had 160hp and it didnt climb so well on a hot day with two big guys in it. It was great with a stick, I looked at it as a mini P51 for a guy with no previous flying experience!

[93spada]

Listen all!   This is the truth of it.

This is the pinnacle of Aussie aircraft design and execution.   WHO else could do this?



Lannis

Soooo.....Whats with the leg and foot hanging out the back of  thing??
Paul

[Lannis]

Soooo.....Whats with the leg and foot hanging out the back of  thing??
Paul

I can see that you need a refresher in future history ... 

Normally an Airtruk can carry 1 pilot, 1 passenger behind him, and 5 passengers in the cargo area.

But THIS Airtruk is taking off with 12 on board, although some (like Master and the small children) don't weigh much:

Jedediah (the pilot)
Jedediah Jr.
Savannah Nix
Master
Pigkiller
Scrooloose
Hunter
Skyfish
Anna Goanna
Eddie
Cusha (who's pregnant so that's maybe 1 more)
and Tubba.

It's overloaded, which is why Max has to get off the plane and clear a path through Aunty's horde so that the plane can get the takeoff roll it needs to get airborne.

Common knowledge, round this house .... !

Lannis

[Huzo]

Yeh the Aussies pinch all our good inventions

Velcro has come in handy on the farm

[oldbike54]

Velcro has come in handy on the farm

 I thought that was George de Mestral in Switzerland , which of course is located near Australia , so...

 Dusty

[Huzo]

I thought that was George de Mestral in Switzerland , which of course is located near Australia , so...

 Dusty

Oh dear...
I really shouldn't.

[KiwiKev]

Oh dear...
I really shouldn't.

Yeh well we all know Richard Pearse a kiwi farmer flew before the Wright brothers - well al us kiwis do at least ;-p

[kirby1923]

Ah progress is a wonderful thing!

A WACO UPF-7 has them all beat and it was designed in the '30s, (and they have turned out to be a killer investment, mine a '41).

Interested in good basic flying machine...go antique, you won't regret it.

:-)

[KiwiKev]

Ah progress is a wonderful thing!

A WACO UPF-7 has them all beat and it was designed in the '30s, (and they have turned out to be a killer investment, mine a '41).

Interested in good basic flying machine...go antique, you won't regret it.

:-)

Nice looking old plane, Tiger Moth looking to my untrained eye. Do you / have you owned one ?