Author Topic: Speed odometer needed  (Read 2521 times)

Online Ncdan

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Speed odometer needed
« on: February 18, 2018, 08:39:59 AM »
Does anyone have a speed odometer for an 07 Cal. Vintage. Mine lasted 7000 miles. This is a disgrace for moto guzzi or any other motorcycle manufacturer to install a cheesy made part like this odometer obviously is. Even the cheapest model of any brand puts a reliable speed odometer on their bikes. Shame!

Offline antmanbee

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 08:43:10 AM »
My Calvin has 80K+ miles and the speedo/odo still work. Who knows why yours broke so fast.

Offline yogidozer

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 08:46:02 AM »
sure it's not the cable?

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 08:56:37 AM »
Does it still show speed, just the odometer failed?
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 08:56:37 AM »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 09:25:38 AM »
sure it's not the cable?
This

Then reroute the cable w/no tie wraps or kinks
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Online Ncdan

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 10:32:11 AM »
Yea I’ve checked the cable. The odometer went out first then the speedo followed. I’ve been told the gears were made of plastic and not nylon or metal.

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 10:52:02 AM »
The ITI speedometer gears from around 2003 to 2005, were METAL and failed quickly. Yes, a lot of people assume they must be plastic, but no, they were metal.

On those ITI speedometers, when the metal gear failed, the odometer quit. The speedometers generally did not fail.

Is yours an ITI? Since the speedometer has failed, and there is no 'gear' in the speedometer driving the needle, I would first inspect the cable closely.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 10:52:44 AM by Wayne Orwig »
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Online Ncdan

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 01:36:02 PM »
The ITI speedometer gears from around 2003 to 2005, were METAL and failed quickly. Yes, a lot of people assume they must be plastic, but no, they were metal.

On those ITI speedometers, when the metal gear failed, the odometer quit. The speedometers generally did not fail.

Is yours an ITI? Since the speedometer has failed, and there is no 'gear' in the speedometer driving the needle, I would first inspect the cable closely.
Thanks for the response Wayne and input. I’m not sure which company manufacturer the 07 Vintage but I’m sure the cable controls both the speedo and the odometer and trip meter. One cable is all that goes into the can except the light wires. My research indicates, without doubt, these instruments were prong to failure. I disconnected the cable from the back of the can and it is not broken. I found a gentleman who managed to get his hands on a box of the gears when a dealer near him went out of business. He advised he would replace the cheesy plastic gear with the factory cheesy gears for 250 bucks plus shipping, both ways.
I have had speedo cables go out over the years and you can hear them before they totally fail. This was not the case in mine. I’m pretty sure it’s the gears.

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »
FYI, There is no gear on the speedometer, in the speedometer. (there is one in the transmission)
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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2018, 07:36:35 PM »
FYI, There is no gear on the speedometer, in the speedometer. (there is one in the transmission)
Since I’ve never been inside the odometer in question it’s hard to argue with your statement. However it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that gears has to operate the odometer and trip meter, which stopped working first in mine. Also a specialists in the field of odometer repairs offered to replace the GEARS in my unit for 250 bucks. So feel free to explain further and I am eager to learn something here.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 09:25:52 AM »
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/how-speedometer-works.html

The gears only operate the odometer and trip odometer, not the speedometer. So, even if the gears fail, the speedometer should continue to function. Since it doesn't, then it would be a good idea to make sure that 1) the speedometer cable is indeed intact, 2) it properly engages in both the speedometer drive at the transmission and the speedometer assembly up top, 3) that the speedometer drive in the transmission is actually spinning, driving the cable.

On a customer's '03 EV, the plastic cage of the transmission's output shaft bearing disintegrated and bits of it jammed into the speedometer drive, causing the gears to jam and strip.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:00:51 AM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 09:45:06 AM »
Since I�ve never been inside the odometer in question it�s hard to argue with your statement. However it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that gears has to operate the odometer and trip meter, which stopped working first in mine. Also a specialists in the field of odometer repairs offered to replace the GEARS in my unit for 250 bucks. So feel free to explain further and I am eager to learn something here.


Good luck. Report back.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:32:33 AM by Wayne Orwig »
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2018, 09:44:18 AM »

The speedometer needle is spun by a magnet.  There is no gear connection from the cable to the needle.

I've been inside them.  Simple, really.  Just had bad gear design/construction for the odometer function.

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Offline Diploman

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2018, 10:59:20 AM »
Speedhut GPS speedo:  No cables, no gears, no speed sensors, lightweight, simple to install, reliable, spot-on accurate.  A better alternative to traditional mechanical speedos.

https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR338-GPS-01/1/GPS-Speedometer-120mph
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 11:05:34 AM »
Speedhut GPS speedo:  No cables, no gears, no speed sensors, lightweight, simple to install, reliable, spot-on accurate.  A better alternative to traditional mechanical speedos.

https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR338-GPS-01/1/GPS-Speedometer-120mph

I put a speedhut on my old bike-works great and has direction and elevation, trip and 0 to 60 time
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 03:58:30 PM »
The stem of my Vintage’s tripmeter got loose and broke when deployed. I was able to extract the tiny brass screw that held the stem and replace it with a Guzzi part. It went in with a little dab of Loctite and I’ve not had a problem since.
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Offline wirespokes

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 10:32:32 PM »
I repair speedometers and agree with the statements that the speed function has nothing to do with gears. Rotate the rear wheel (neutral is fine) and see if the cable spins at the speedo end. I've found that the cables in my Guzzis don't have an inch to spare in length, and if not routed in the most direct fashion, will have problems.

Of course, something could have happened to the speedo function of your gauge, but don't assume right off without checking, that that's the case.

Online Ncdan

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 02:41:16 PM »
I repair speedometers and agree with the statements that the speed function has nothing to do with gears. Rotate the rear wheel (neutral is fine) and see if the cable spins at the speedo end. I've found that the cables in my Guzzis don't have an inch to spare in length, and if not routed in the most direct fashion, will have problems.

Of course, something could have happened to the speedo function of your gauge, but don't assume right off without checking, that that's the case.
Thanks Wire for attempting to help. I’m a little confused with the account that there are no gears involved as I’m fairly confident that’s not likely accurate. My odometer is mechanical and I feel sure there are gears that control the odometer and trip meter.
If this helps let me describe the failure events. The odometer and trip meter stopped abruptly and the speedometer kept working. Several miles later the speedometer also stopped functioning. I removed the locking collar on the back of the can and the cable was well inside the odometer, well lubed and using pliers I couldn’t remove any part of a broken cable. Does this not assure the problem is a stripped gear inside the can?

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 02:59:46 PM »
Thanks Wire for attempting to help. I’m a little confused with the account that there are no gears involved as I’m fairly confident that’s not likely accurate. My odometer is mechanical and I feel sure there are gears that control the odometer and trip meter.
If this helps let me describe the failure events. The odometer and trip meter stopped abruptly and the speedometer kept working. Several miles later the speedometer also stopped functioning. I removed the locking collar on the back of the can and the cable was well inside the odometer, well lubed and using pliers I couldn’t remove any part of a broken cable. Does this not assure the problem is a stripped gear inside the can?
Pull the other end out of trans as the break about 1-2" above the trans also as per what I have found over 42yrs of working on them.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 03:08:43 PM »
Disconnect the cable shield on both ends.  See if you can pull/move the cable from both ends.  If you can't move it, in or out and it's frozen then you've found the problem.  Corrosion to the shield will also make it hard to turn.  Check for the ease of movement.
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Online Ncdan

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 03:43:26 PM »
Pull the other end out of trans as the break about 1-2" above the trans also as per what I have found over 42yrs of working on them.
Steve, if it was the cable would it not have completely quit at once and not the odometer stopping and then miles later the speedo following?

Online Tom H

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 03:48:27 PM »
When my EV speedo died, the odo and trip numbers stopped turning. Speedo needle was fine.

Bought a new stock speedo and it all died in a few days. Well not really. For whatever reason the cable had slipped out of either the speedo input or the trans output, don't remember which. Both ends of the housing were attached properly, just the cable moved a bit. All good for 8000mi so far.

IIRC, the odo and trip are gear driven from the cable. The speedo is directly from the cable. There is a post here somewhere that shows how to open and lube one. Maybe Greg Fields, or?? I remember something latter that lubing was not a cure for the odo gears stripping, but may slow the process. I need to look that up and my do it since my speedo is fairly low miles.

If it's not the cable and the entire speedo does not work, go the Speed Hut route. That is what I plan to do when this one dies. The only question is to go with GPS or the one that uses the short cable and the GM?? speedo sender then to the wires of the speedo.

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Online StuCorpe

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 03:56:16 PM »
It would seem logical that the gears in the speedometer that drive the odometer may have broken teeth of and a piece of that jammed in the magnetic coupling for the speedometer. That said the cable still needs to be checked at the output of the transmission to insure that the cable isn't buggered up between transmission and speedometer unit.

Online Ncdan

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 08:51:52 PM »
It would seem logical that the gears in the speedometer that drive the odometer may have broken teeth of and a piece of that jammed in the magnetic coupling for the speedometer. That said the cable still needs to be checked at the output of the transmission to insure that the cable isn't buggered up between transmission and speedometer unit.
Sounds like a legitimate course of action. I’ll check it out and get back with ya. Thanks.!!

Offline wirespokes

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 11:49:30 PM »
The speedometer is actually two totally separate meters in one, driven off the same cable. Think of it that way.

The odometer and trip meter are run via gears - three pairs of six in the train. The cable drives a shaft with a gear, that then delivers the driving force to the odometer - and from there, the trip meter.

That same shaft with the gear has a magnet on the end, and it's the driving force for the needle that indicates speed.

The only thing common between the two meters is the cable driving the input shaft carrying both the gear and magnet.


Just because the cable wouldn't pull out of the housing, doesn't definitely prove the cable is good. Either disconnect it at the transmission, or rotate the rear wheel to see if the cable turns at the speedo.

Online Ncdan

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Re: Speed odometer needed
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2018, 08:18:26 PM »
Hey guys, I started this thread a year ago and believe it or not I have an update. A short recap.
My odometer and trip odometer stopped working however the speedometer continued to function for a another several miles before quitting also. I determined this chain of events implies the gears which drive the odometer failed and later the speedometer failed or the cable broke. Either way it made sense that I had two separate failures. At the time I was unable to find any ITI replacement nor any reasonable repair pricing therefore I took the advise of some of the guys and went with the bicycle odometer which was its draw backs but works fine and I didn’t want to bugger up the looks of replacing the factory setup.
Now to date. While the Calvin was on the rack a few days ago and I could get to the cable I disconnected the cable and pulled it out of the cover and he’s the cable came out in two pieces.
I ordered a new cable and replaced the old broken one. Sure enough, now I’m back to square one. As I figured my speedometer now works but not the odometer because the cheesy gears stripped at 7k miles. Does anyone know where I can purchase a new ITI speedometer, used one of parts to repair mine?

 

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