Oil leak 2001 jackal

[Semper-guzzi]

Good morning gents. I have a small oil leak on the Jackal. 53k miles. I've done the oil change about 2500 miles ago. I noticed it splattered all of the rear wheel. At first I thought the final drive was leaking so I pulled the check volt on that and there was still fluid in there.I knew it wasn't the final drive once I saw the color. So there is oil splattered on the rear wheel and it pools up in the bottom lip of the rim where the weights go. I'm trying to track down this leak, I'm wondering if you guys can give me some usual suspects to check.

Thanks!!!

[oldbike54]

 Doubt if engine oil is finding its way to the rear wheel , are you sure it isn't gear oil ? Make sure the bevel box isn't over full , and burp it .

  Dusty

[Aaron D.]

Usual suspect would be the engine oil drain plug. It has happened to me once or twice.

[Semper-guzzi]

I'm pretty sure it isn't gear oil. I opened the final drive and the fluid in there is dirty brown. I probably should change it out anyways. Suppose I could check that way. He oil on the rear wheel was much cleaner looking. What do you mean by burping it? We had a good rain the other day. Is it possible water got into the final drive and "over filled" it?

The drain plug is tight. Nothing looks to be leaking from there.

[John A]

Engine breather drain?

[oldbike54]

I'm pretty sure it isn't gear oil. I opened the final drive and the fluid in there is dirty brown. I probably should change it out anyways. Suppose I could check that way. He oil on the rear wheel was much cleaner looking. What do you mean by burping it? We had a good rain the other day. Is it possible water got into the final drive and "over filled" it?

The drain plug is tight. Nothing looks to be leaking from there.

 Warm up the bevel box with a ride and open the level plug = burping . Doubt if water is the issue , just seems unlikely that engine oil could find its way inside the rear wheel . One thing I've noticed , oil collected on the wheels appears cleaner , probably something to do with light reflecting off the chrome , dunno .

  Dusty

[oldbike54]

Is the oil level dropping after a 100 miles or so?

Is it coming from the drain on the bottom of the bell housing?
If so could be the crank case breather pipe is leaking or the rear main seal.

If that is true the oil will indeed (not saying how I know this) coat the wheel and the tire plus the bottom of the rear drive with nice fresh engine oil!!

Either way ouch.



mike

  + - GMT ?

  Dusty

[Bill Hagan]

Usual suspect would be the engine oil drain plug. It has happened to me once or twice.

****

The drain plug is tight. Nothing looks to be leaking from there.

Even so, you might check the O-ring on the dipstick.

Found mine so misshapen and hard that it was no barrier.  Only leaked under pressure, of course, and the wet stuff would end up in all sorts of unexpected places. 

I ordered some new ones because mine also had a serious nick that I caused when trying to extract it from the dipstick.  But, Patrick Hayes posted here that you can "revive" hardened stuff like that by -- as I think I recall! -- by putting in water and microwaving.

I also have a continuing small leak from the slot at the bottom of the bell housing.  Really don't want to confirm what I think that is -- see kirby1923's post -- as I haven't been able to get Wayne up here to fix it.  [Visualize appropriate emoticon as I can get 'em to appear]

Good luck with finding your mini-Exxon Valdez. 

Bill

[Semper-guzzi]

I really do hope it is not coming from the bell housing. That looks like a pita to get to to change a gasket or a hose. How much of a pita am I looking at? I can do oil changes and valve adjustments. I can do brakes and change my tires. This however seems rather daunting.

I'm an aircraft mechanic however, and I have the moto guzzi manual. I'll figure it out eventually, but what am I really looking at here if that's the problem?

[Kev m]

I had so many oil leaks on my Jackal - it COULD be any one of most of them (though getting to the rear wheel is tough, but I guess if it blows back far enough).

Anyway the leaks I had were

1. "S" breather hose between valve on top of motor and bottom front of frame (this dripped under the bike).
2. Braided steal oil hoses on the top back of the heads (this blew down the side of the bike).
3. Timing sensor (this just caked over the front left cylinder)
4. Rear main weep (this let a few drops out of the bellhousing vent at the bottom IF I kept the oil level a little too high (more than halfway up the stick). Never bothered to fix it because it was so minor.

I imagine #4 could get blown all the way back to the rear wheel/tire.

[Steph]

You overfilled it with engine or gearbox oil.

You may want to read my other reply here:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=54243.0

[Bill Hagan]

You overfilled it with engine or gearbox oil.

You may want to read my other reply here:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=54243.0

Similarly afflicted, happy to try your suggested method, but am wondering what "white spirit" is. 

Bill

[oldbike54]

I'm guessing mineral spirits??

mike

 Yep,  turpentine .

 Dusty

[Zoom Zoom]

If it were coming out anyplace but the rear drive, I would expect it to be on the tire but not necessarily on the rim. Keep in mind that a very tiny amount of lube out of the rear drive will appear as if you took a bucket and drenched the rim. I say this from personal experience. One time, while headed out West on a trip, we gained 3K feet in elevation and very high temps. This was in one day and the day was not over yet. In any case, I observed what you describe. I put the bike on the center stand and checked the rear. Lube came out the over flow. I did notice that when I opened the fill plug, I heard the rear "burp".

So, my suggestion is that you may very well have a rear drive leak. Could be an outer seal, (easy), or the inner seal,(more difficult). If you pull the wheel, you will see evidence of either one. If the grease has migrated out from the center spline, you are probably looking at an inner seal. If the surface of the cush drive is pretty much dry, then the outer seal is likely suspect. OR, you simply over filled the thing and it burped out some excess.

The main thing to remember is that it takes very little to make a HUGE mess. That means as long as you keep an eye on it until you determine the trouble, you probably don't need to worry about running it dry and causing a catastrophic failure.

Simply because of centrifugal force, if something is coming out ahead of the wheel, it is unlikely it gets on the rim unless it is dripping directly on it.

John Henry

[Chuck in Indiana]

You may be able to pull the seal (and install a new one) without the flange coming off...Anybody????"

Yes, you can. But. It's fiddly, and there's a chance of scratching the seal surface. Two of the holes in the flange are tapped. With a couple of screws, it should jack right off, and you can drive the old seal out.

[Semper-guzzi]

If I overfilled it, wouldn't it show immediately,not 2500 miles later. It really looked like engine oil. The rear drive oil was significantly dirtier looking from what I checked. Anyways, I haven't noticed any other spots on the ground and the rear wheel is clean since I rode it last. Really is boggling my mind. This weekend ill pull the tank if I get a chance and look at some hoses.

Thanks for all the info gurus.

[oldbike54]

 Croissants Mike ? Tell me you are having croissants with some good cheese and fruit , maybe a good stout French coffee 

  Dusty

[Vagrant]

if it just started after an oil change loosen the drain plug 2 turns and spin the crush washer a 1/2 turn and re-tighten. next time change it or sand it down.

[Semper-guzzi]

So.... found something new out. If I ride it easy, no leak. If I push it harder, 90ish mph, the leak starts. I no longer think it's engine oil, I'm still unsure tho. The rear drive has oil on it. I feel like that may have been over filled and the seals are starting to rupture. I'll burp it like I was told and go from there. How hard and what's the cost of new seals for the rear drive? Anyone know off hand? I think I'll need some special tools to pull those seals. Am. I correct in thinking that?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Give it the sniff test first. Transmission/rear drive oil is easy to tell from engine oil.

[Semper-guzzi]

Parts came in and I replaced the main outer seal in the rear drive. Flushed and added new fluid to the tranny and rear drive. Took her out for a spin and I guess we'll see what or what isn't pooled up on the floor tomorrow. Took me about 5 hours.... but I don't have a bike stand. Using a car jack and Jack stands.

[radguzzi]

Here's hoping that it is good and dry tomorrow Kevin...      Nice job.

Best,
Rob

[Semper-guzzi]

I took it for the freeway burn last night. Speeds up to 90ish. No puddle this morning. Hope it holds and  I didn't mess anything else up in the process. It was pretty straight forward.

[Tom]

Sounds like you got it.

[krglorioso]

Hummus is wonderful , and goat cheese is also .

  Dusty

Dusty:  Trader Joe's roasted red pepper hummus on Trader Joe's fig and olive crackers...That is the ticket. 

Oh, no TJs in OK?  Never mind.

Ralph

[Chuck in Indiana]

Dusty:  Trader Joe's roasted red pepper hummus on Trader Joe's fig and olive crackers...That is the ticket. 

Oh, no TJs in OK?  Never mind.

Ralph

Got em in Indiana, and that's about as backward as it gets.  They might even have em in Okie land, too. I like TJs..

[oldbike54]

Dusty:  Trader Joe's roasted red pepper hummus on Trader Joe's fig and olive crackers...That is the ticket. 

Oh, no TJs in OK?  Never mind.

Ralph

 

Got em in Indiana, and that's about as backward as it gets.  They might even have em in Okie land, too. I like TJs..

 Yep , we got a TJ's in Tulsa on my Bday this year , guess they were waiting on electricity and running water 

  Dusty

[krglorioso]

A premium rear drive oil (This is NOT a rear drive oil thread) is Red Line Heavy Duty Shockproof Synthetic gear lube.  It is a "must use" by most all desert car racers and bike racers.  A side benefit is that it is pink in color and should readily be distinguishable from other lubricants in engine and gearbox. 

When I sent a rear drive back to Charley Cole a few years ago, he asked "What is all this strawberry milkshake you Californians use in your rear drives?". 

BTW, has anyone got an update on Charley's health?

Ralph