Another one bites the dust.

[mphcycles]

That was Todds writing in that missive. I just added a few comments, but its still the same battle, I simply got older and less tolerant of BS.

[canuguzzi]

I'm very sad to hear this. I guess it's a volume thing. Not enough people buying Guzzis. I can see contraction to 1 or 2 dealers per state. I can see, for example, Pro Italia to service the So. Cal market and Elk Grove to service the No. Cal market. If you want a new Guzzi it's fly-n-ride. The few dealers might survive that way.

Not too many people willing to buy a bike that means a criss state ride for service. If you get there and it has to stay you are looking at plane far home and back, it isn't worth it no matter how much one might like the bike.

It is obvious to me that there is some part of the MG/Piaggio business that leverages Guzzi bike manufacturing for something other than selling bikes, something we are all unaware of because selling bikes doesn't seem to be the goal, supporting owners sure isn't.

Somewhere on a balance sheet there is a line item that makes all the difference.

There is no they can't, there is only no, they don't want to. What drives that reasoning only they know but it isn't because they sell only 7k bikes a year, that is a symptom, not a cause.

[homebrew]

Mike, are there any niche manufacturers (and that's what Guzzi is in the US) doing it right?  Without betraying any confidences between you and MGUSA, how would you go about things if you were in their shoes and you wanted to grow the brand into the midrange and take care of the dealers? Maybe consolidate to just a few geographic areas and hit those places hard until they were strong enough to expand on?  More or less presence at the various motorcycle shows?  Raise list prices and leave more room for dealer-level discounts? 

[mphcycles]

Mike, are there any niche manufacturers (and that's what Guzzi is in the US) doing it right?  Without betraying any confidences between you and MGUSA, how would you go about things if you were in their shoes and you wanted to grow the brand into the midrange and take care of the dealers? Maybe consolidate to just a few geographic areas and hit those places hard until they were strong enough to expand on?  More or less presence at the various motorcycle shows?  Raise list prices and leave more room for dealer-level discounts?

I always wondered why they have  jobs called dealer development, and national sales manager and brand manger, when only one of the three ever came to see our operation, never asked about business or how we were doing, if we were using the programs to the best of their ability, what could be done to make things better for us and the end consumer.
Just get more units on the floor, not really concerned with out the door.
Maybe go learn from the top 5 dealers in the USA what makes them top 5 , and implement those practices to others who cared. In fact a few years ago a survey went out asking about Best Practices. I gave several hours of time to fill in the questionaire, and saw the responses from a couple others. Then corporate condensed and sanitized it and sent it out as if it was word from on high.2 of the top 3 from 2011 are now gone.  The bikes are better than ever. The need for a dealer on every block is no longer there. 50 strong ones nationwide would be plenty .There have been as much as 100 listed at one time, but most were non stocking. The current requirement of stocking the complete model range is what drove me over the edge. V7 Special must be on the floor to get the bonus and discount money from PGA. I just sold my 2013 and 2014 Specials at cost, less the $2000 rebate to get them out of here.Never had a 2015 Special. Not interested in buying bikes that have proven to be boat anchors. Now the recent PGA auction to dealers of all the non currents in stock has re-devalued the in stock inventory of any dealer who didnt buy more  bikes and dollar cost average .  It did not make sense to me to keep buying into oblivion.
Bikes shows are a waste of time and money. Not one single person I spoke to at any of the IMS shows I worked, both here and the one  in Dallas ever resulted in a warm body walking in my door.
Pricing seems like the market is not comfy with where the bikes are now at MSRP. The Ducati Scrambler is discounted locally to 8450, how can they dream of selling the V7 Scrambler for over 11K?And legal certification seems iffy.

[ohiorider]

It is obvious to me that there is some part of the MG/Piaggio business that leverages Guzzi bike manufacturing for something other than selling bikes, something we are all unaware of because selling bikes doesn't seem to be the goal, supporting owners sure isn't.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but, yeah, there just may be something aside from making profits from Guzzi sales that lurks in the background.  NP, you're absolutely right  ..... selling bikes to the end user doesn't seem to be the goal.  It is disappointing to see a company do so much from the engineering side of things to make the bikes 'right', but then do so little follow through.  It's almost like they (Guzzi) believe in the axiom of 'build a better mouse trap and they will come.' 

There's some truth in that, but a large part of the better mousetrap is service, support, and warranty.

Opinion ...... the USA market makes up approximately 10% of Guzzi sales.  Is it worth it for them to continue selling bikes in America?  That's 'like' 500-600 bikes a year, which is almost nothing.

[Joliet Jim]

It is sad to read about the current state of guzzi. It does seem to be a marque that doesn't keep dealers very long. Other than Moto international and rose farm I wonder how many dealers have been around for 10 years.

[oldbike54]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but, yeah, there just may be something aside from making profits from Guzzi sales that lurks in the background.  NP, you're absolutely right  ..... selling bikes to the end user doesn't seem to be the goal.  It is disappointing to see a company do so much from the engineering side of things to make the bikes 'right', but then do so little follow through.  It's almost like they (Guzzi) believe in the axiom of 'build a better mouse trap and they will come.' 

There's some truth in that, but a large part of the better mousetrap is service, support, and warranty.

Opinion .. .... the USA market makes up approximately 10% of Guzzi sales.  Is it worth it for them to continue selling bikes in America?  That's 'like' 500-600 bikes a year, which is almost nothing.

 Most businesses aren't what they appear to be . Take McDonald's , the parent corp isn't really in the food business , it is really a real estate business , making the largest profit from leasing the land and building to the franchisee . Actually sub leasing is more accurate , they normally don't own the property , but lease it long term . Harley Davidson makes huge sums of real cash profit from their finance arm , as do most other car companies . GM sold off 51 % of GMAC a few years back , and have desperately trying to get it back .
 


 Oh , and the manufacturer does register a sale as soon as the dealer pays .

  Dusty

[Mike Harper]

It is sad to read about the current state of guzzi. It does seem to be a marque that doesn't keep dealers very long. Other than Moto international and rose farm I wonder how many dealers have been around for 10 years.

Really?

[Guzzistajohn]

Really?

Pretty sure that's it Mike, dontcha think?

[Texas Turnip]

Pretty sure that's it Mike, dontcha think?
[/quote

EuroSport in Ft. Worth, TX since 1982?, Harpers since 1970?, Les Caswell in MN 30 plus years. There are more, but I've only had 4 cups of coffee and my mind is only at 60%.

Tex

[blackcat]

 Not one single person I spoke to at any of the IMS shows I worked, both here and the one in Dallas ever resulted in a warm body walking in my door.

I test road a Norge at Daytona when Guzzi was there with the test fleet and I ended up buying a Norge from you guys. Not the same as IMS show but it does help to have them going around with that fleet or it did in my case.

[Vagrant]

becoming successful in the market place isn't that hard. just a few simple rules that MOST manufactures fail to follow.
first you have to want to be #1 and set it as a long term goal. I'm talking 20 years out not next year or next week. then you work towards that goal every day. I bought my first new Guzzi in late 1972. a 850 Eldorado. I have owned 10 total (out of 35) and my 2001 EV is still the favorite. it amazes me that so many of the old problems still exist in the new products like the 2010 Stelvio I sold this spring.
two you have to realize you can't do it with low quality dealers. one great one who loves the product is better than 10 who don't care.
three you need to start at the things that are most important to a dealer and a retail customer. parts, you need to have all of them in inventory and ship the order out to your dealers the day it comes to you. yes it can be done. next stand behind your warranty and make it a fair one. if it breaks fix it right now and make it a priority. when things are breaking have a fix to the dealer within 6 months. hard for a factory but doable. never leave a customer hanging with a piece of junk.
let the dealer make a fair margin on the product. discourage discounting and for the sake of everybody don't dump inventory and cut the dealers throat. don't demand the dealer to inventory all of the brands / products you sell. some markets just can't take some of those products.
I could go on and on but you see the idea.
shameless plug just look at Stihl hand held power equipment. in 1973 it wasn't even 1/2% of the US market. today it owns it. They are committed to full service dealers, no mass merchants and believe me that was no accident. even though it is German like BMW it's run totally opposite. there are no stock holders or board of directors to appease. it is owned by the two sons and two daughters of the founder. it is their name on the product and they do care about what the market and the final customer thinks. they spend a lot of time in the field seeing what is needed to make it keep going forward.
teach the dealer how to sell the product through. then advertise it for him in a common sense manor.

[rbond]

So, does this mean I can still bring my V7C from Louisiana to get worked on at MPH? A few weeks ago the dealer in Baton Rouge dropped Guzzi 'cause no one brought them in for service. Was not going to pay for his mechanic to get up to speed on latest models for nothing. His 'Guzzi mechanic has since left. Houston is now the closest to me for service. Have ordered what few parts from Harper's, MGcycle, and AF1. Don't have much problem with that as I have a 1976 Suzuki GT500, no dealer here anyway, so making or ordering parts is the only way to fly!

[professor]

You guys are way ahead of me in understanding all this dealer dilemma issue. I buy a new motorcycle every two years and ride what ever pleases me at that particular time. So, this is my first MG. But from what I can see young men and women are interested in other things than motorcycles or cars in the US. Many don't even drive or delay getting a driver's license now. The economy is still staggering. America is the least of the motorcycle markets for the big four in terms of volume. The Japanese cruisers are American focused and don't sell well else where. Volume?? The Gold wing is uniquely American.  HD is home grown and most sales are here in the US. So, I get the point of making things in and for America. But in reality how much of any motorcycle company's overall  production or stock (other than HD) is sold in the US? How much can we as a market force influence them? The local dealer which sells all big four and Triumph, says; "not too much".  Is he/she right? Most of the kids seems to move from bicycle to car.

[mphcycles]

So, does this mean I can still bring my V7C from Louisiana to get worked on at MPH? A few weeks ago the dealer in Baton Rouge dropped Guzzi 'cause no one brought them in for service. Was not going to pay for his mechanic to get up to speed on latest models for nothing. His 'Guzzi mechanic has since left. Houston is now the closest to me for service. Have ordered what few parts from Harper's, MGcycle, and AF1. Don't have much problem with that as I have a 1976 Suzuki GT500, no dealer here anyway, so making or ordering parts is the only way to fly!

Yes we will continue to service Guzzi and BMW for as long as we want to. Larry has been trained at Guzzi tech and is quite happy to continue. We are only ceasing the sale of new bikes.

[canuguzzi]

You guys are way ahead of me in understanding all this dealer dilemma issue. I buy a new motorcycle every two years and ride what ever pleases me at that particular time. So, this is my first MG. But from what I can see young men and women are interested in other things than motorcycles or cars in the US. Many don't even drive or delay getting a driver's license now. The economy is still staggering. America is the least of the motorcycle markets for the big four in terms of volume. The Japanese cruisers are American focused and don't sell well else where. Volume?? The Gold wing is uniquely American.  HD is home grown and most sales are here in the US. So, I get the point of making things in and for America. But in reality how much of any motorcycle company's overall  production or stock (other than HD) is sold in the US? How much can we as a market force influence them? The local dealer which sells all big four and Triumph, says; "not too much".  Is he/she right? Most of the kids seems to move from bicycle to car.

People want convenience and a lot if that means reliability and no fuss. Ease of maintenance is fine unless you end up doing it all the time. For example, easy valve adjustments are intrusive if half way through a riding season you have to do it, even if it takes just an hour. First, a lot of people don't want to do it, they want a simple drop off at a dealer and pick up. Second, if it isn't a once a year thing, it is too often.

Most people don't like quirky either, they want efficient and hassle free enjoyment. If you enjoy fiddling with engines and such, OK but realize that isn't most people.

Today, the youngsters don't want to pay money for something that sits around so if a bike is going to be ridden often and miles racked up, what do you choose, the bike that needs maintenance once a year or one that needs it quarterly or semi annually?

A bike you can ride for 12k miles with perhaps just an oil change is something you can easily deal with. The oil change is inexpensive and on most bikes, very easy to do. There are some that are a pita but not most.

HD gave customers what they demanded, a fantastic dealer network, nearly immediate parts availability and the confidence to buy and know that even on a Sunday, their shops are open. There is an entire industry making accessories.

Don't forget, HD almost went bellyup so it isn't as if they were always a huge operation, they just put effort into the business and gave people what they wanted.

You can either tell people to buy what you make and tough if they don't like it or make what they ask for and sell a lot of stuff. Both HD and Apple sell what people want and look at their success. It wasn't by chance, it was by design.

I don't own either an Apple product or a HD but there is no arguing that people buy huge numbers of their products. It isn't magic.

[boxermoose]

Motorcycle sales are like farming...you can do both successfully until you are broke

Mike, I've been a big supporter of you and MPH since you have always done great by me & will continue to support you for your superior service. Honestly I would not have considered purchase of a NG if you had not been nearby and frankly it will probably be my only one.

My biggest disappointment with the brand is their continued dumping of unsold units so as to dilute the value of the resale of bikes....I know, nobody buys MG's to make money but still

[professor]

Makes sense what you guys say. Sadly, it makes sense. Instant gratification with no hassles.

[professor]

It is not just MG. The local dealer sells BMW, MG and Aprilia. The big V4 sport bikes sells OK maybe three or four. One Shiver, one Dorsoduro, one Manna and one CapoNord and that's it in a year. The MG V7s out sell the Aprilia's. Maybe fifteen to eighteen bikes a year.  But the BMWs go by the dozens. Nine-Ts near the day they come in. On reading and reflecting on this thread. I would not want any part of this business as my livelihood. Very grateful for those who do it. But what headache. The Big Block MGs linger a while as well. You never pay MSRP as there are always a deal of some kind as the inventory sits. I wonder what the margin is??

[father guzzi obrian]

Mike,
All of us understand your business decision, we just feel bad that Piaggio did not create business processes that would allow great folks like you to survive selling Guzzi's. Your service is legendary, as many have noted, and I still give thanks to dear Todd for the warranty work he was able to get done on my Breva 1100 in California.  I have owned many bikes, but no one ever gave the level of service and concern that you folks did. It is truly a shame that this has happened, I also realize you will be just fine with the business that MPH has, I am just saddened that after all of your efforts over the years MPH was not given proper consideration by Piaggio.   I would buy a Yugo from you guys!!!

[Mile High Guzzi]

Disappointing to read this post just now.  I don't live anywhere near MPH, but bought a "Roper plate" from Todd a while back.  There are so few Guzzi dealers around period, so it is a double shame when a good one drops out.  I have bought from MPH, Moto International, Harpers and Rider's Hill, and all were good experiences and knowledgeable dealers.  Now MPH won't be a Guzzi dealer and Rider's Hill is closing all together, so a bit sad.  I think the Guzzi brand has a market niche, but I am not sure they can be sold and serviced effectively by generic dealers that don't appreciate the product.  Spec/price-wise, Guzzi often doesn't compare well to competition for under-informed consumers...I hope Piaggio wakes up and realizes that.  In the US auto industry, I think there were similar blind spots with how GM and Chrysler treated many smaller dealers.

[mphcycles]

Disappointing to read this post just now.  I don't live anywhere near MPH, but bought a "Roper plate" from Todd a while back.  There are so few Guzzi dealers around period, so it is a double shame when a good one drops out.  I have bought from MPH, Moto International, Harpers and Rider's Hill, and all were good experiences and knowledgeable dealers.  Now MPH won't be a Guzzi dealer and Rider's Hill is closing all together, so a bit sad.  I think the Guzzi brand has a market niche, but I am not sure they can be sold and serviced effectively by generic dealers that don't appreciate the product.  Spec/price-wise, Guzzi often doesn't compare well to competition for under-informed consumers...I hope Piaggio wakes up and realizes that.  In the US auto industry, I think there were similar blind spots with how GM and Chrysler treated many smaller dealers.

we can hope, as I have for 16 years that someone who can put 2 brain cells next to each other can, that they need some simple fixes applied. They dont care. End of story."here is our bike , you should make people want to buy it from your store." No its not what they asked for, and if it is its priced at a ridiculous level. So F- You is what they are saying to the US market. And we are saying it back.
and BTW MPH Cycles has been in the top 5 of US Guzzi dealers since we started in 2000. The pain they place on a small dealer must be inscrutable.

[John Ulrich]

4 dealers in MN, 3 with over 10 years.  1 in South Dakota with over 10 years. 

[vstevens]

Seems to be an Italian business model to pull support from local motorcycle and car dealers.  The local Fiat studio, Kearny Mesa Fiat, is closing.  Sold tons of the 500's.  Great people, honest dealers that really seems to care about you...after the sale.  I asked one of the managers and he told me they just didn't get a lot of support from Fiat... And they couldn't compete with the giant multi brand dealers.  He said Fiat deliberately licensed too many dealerships. 

[Jim Rich]

Mike,
Thanks for helping many of us acquire the bikes we love.  Looking forward to doing business with you as long as you stay with it.  You guys have always been a class act, and a shop I always appreciated immensely to be able to come to.

[Joliet Jim]

Pretty sure that's it Mike, dontcha think?
[/quote

EuroSport in Ft. Worth, TX since 1982?, Harpers since 1970?, Les Caswell in MN 30 plus years. There are more, but I've only had 4 cups of coffee and my mind is only at 60%.

Tex

Forgot about caswell and the shop in SD. I didn't think harpers sold bikes anymore.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Could be that they have old franchise agreeements that give them a bit more independence, also Minnesota's franchise laws may protect dealers here a bit more.

[bad Chad]

Judson cycles in MN been selling Guzzi for decades!

[GearheadGrrrl]

Perhaps because Minnesota has one of the stronger franchise regulation laws... Minnesota prohibits a manufacturer from changing the terms of a franchise agreement without the agreement of the dealer. That means that if the manufacturer only required stocking a single model of bike in a shared showroom a half century ago, those terms still stand. The weak point in these laws is enforcement- the dealer generally has to hire their own lawyer to take on the manufacturer's whole bloated legal department.