Making a Cafe-racer out of a Lario

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

So, I bought a Lario back in 1994, when I was 19 years old. I allways wanted a Le-Mans, but they were too expensive for me, and the Lario sort of looked like a baby LeMans  As the years went by, I got a famliy and kids, and the bike wasn't used that often. Last autumn, I was asked to go with my father to a Guzzy-event, and there I fell in love with a 1100 Sport Corsa. So now I have two bikes in the garage. I've been trying to sell the Lario for 6 months now, but nobody seems to like the little lady  I absolutely love it, but I allways kind of envied the Le-Mans-dudes that had all theese cool custom-builds. My Lario have allways had the very, very 80's look to it. So now that it's just collecting rust in the garage, and nobody wants to buy it, I've decided to fix her up, and try and make her into a sort of Cafe-racer that will make people turn their heads. It will be a true pensioner-life, only beeing out in sunny weather. So this thread will be documenting the progress of the rebuild.

Here's a video of how it looked this april: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SJqssgJaio

I first got a little hung up in the customizing-part of making a Cafe-racer, but after beeing given some well founded advice, I've decided to go for the following priority:
1. Fix it. It leaks air from the rear wheel, and the 5th gear sounds very bad, like a chain-saw from a Mad-Max-movie, or somthing. If I cannot get that gear sounding like the other four gears, I won't bother with the rest of the modifications.
2. Clean up and save the original parts. If a buyer comes along after all, I think it's smart not to cut in the frame or to destroy any of the original parts. I've therefore decided to polish up the plastic, and then store it away on the loft.
3. Get the electrisity back online, I've had a lot of troubble with the indicator-lights, so building up the wireing from scratch will be a prioroty.
4. Buy/build metal parts for it (tank, tail, saddle, and covers).


Here's a picture of it after it's hoisted up under the roof, and most of the plastic is off:

Wheels taken off, rear wheel will be going to the tyre-shop for fixing that leekage:

All plastic covers polished and washed, ready for mothballing :D

[Chuck in Indiana]

Good idea on saving the nearly unobtainium parts. 
I'll be *very* interested in what you find in the transmission. Mine is noisy in fifth gear, too.. a common problem from the Guzzi recommended .9L of transmission oil back in the day.
Actually, the LeMans is a 5/4 scale Lario.  The Lario was first..

[kevdog3019]

A lemans-like Lario?  ''Twas my intention as well.

[Guido Valvole]

Wasn't the Lario a factory cafe racer in stock form? It's not like you're likely to be seeing them everywhere you go…
Unless you're Kevin    (tricked-out one is looking good!)
cr

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

Beginning to see the end of the dismantlement 

I have some questions, so if anybody read this and have some input, I'd appreciate it.

There is some rust to the clip on-bars, the front fork, and to the exhaust. Is it possible to go over it with sand-paper, gradually finer and finer, and get a decent look, or do I have to chrome it? (Do one really want to chrome the front-forks?) I have gone over the stuff with autosol, but I want it to look new when finished.

The engine block as well as some other parts, I want to sand-blast, then repaint, how do I cover up the parts I don't want sandblasted? I would prefere not to take the engine itself apart, but the coil and stuff in the front probably doesn't want to be sand-blasted....

I'm dismanteling the gearbox tomorrow, any tips or advice before I proceed?

Here are some pics:

[Vasco DG]

Fifth gear will be cactus. Oiling problem back in the day.

One suggestion would be to buy a Breva 750 box off the Bay of Fleas as these have all the later mods that seem to have cured, or at least mitigated, the fifth gear extinction problems. Take a litre of oil without blowing it out everywhere too.

Pete

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

Fifth gear will be cactus. Oiling problem back in the day.

One suggestion would be to buy a Breva 750 box off the Bay of Fleas as these have all the later mods that seem to have cured, or at least mitigated, the fifth gear extinction problems. Take a litre of oil without blowing it out everywhere too.

Pete

Thanks for the tip!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Fifth gear will be cactus. Oiling problem back in the day.

One suggestion would be to buy a Breva 750 box off the Bay of Fleas as these have all the later mods that seem to have cured, or at least mitigated, the fifth gear extinction problems. Take a litre of oil without blowing it out everywhere too.

Pete

Hey, Pete.. I have a low mileage Breva 750 box headed my way. How interchangeable are the parts between it and the Lario transmission?
For instance, I understand that the primary ratios are changed between units depending on what it is being used for. The Lario has 16" wheels, so I *assume* it will be different than the Beaver transmission. Can I mix and match gears, or is that not a good idea? Also, I've done the steel sleeve in the case mod on the Lario. Can I use that casting, again mixing parts?
Am I overthinking this and should just bolt up the Beaver transmission and call it a day before I screw up something? 
Remember, I have no experience whatsoever with the small block transmission, and am not finding much on the net..

[Vasco DG]

To be honest Chuck I have no real in-depth knowledge of the differences in primary ratios and would have to look them up. If it were me though I'd just bung it in and see how it felt. I don't think it would be too different. One would assume that the B750 would have a slightly lower ratio? I do know of people who put V35 primaries in their V50's to lower the gearing to make them better for bend-swinging in the hills.

If you do that what's the worse that can happen? It feels a bit frenetic on the freeway? Well, get off the freeway!

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

To be honest Chuck I have no real in-depth knowledge of the differences in primary ratios and would have to look them up. If it were me though I'd just bung it in and see how it felt. I don't think it would be too different. One would assume that the B750 would have a slightly lower ratio? I do know of people who put V35 primaries in their V50's to lower the gearing to make them better for bend-swinging in the hills.

If you do that what's the worse that can happen? It feels a bit frenetic on the freeway? Well, get off the freeway!

Pete

Well, that was quick.  Thanks, Pete. Maybe better acceleration?  Maybe 5600 instead of 5200 chasing Rolf on his Beemer going to the Nationals? 

[kevdog3019]

Chuck,
     My experience with a Beaver trans and my cafe Lario are pretty equal. Yes, I have the V65 primary on the cafe. I LOVE it. I owned a B 750 so yes it's close. The Lario stock primary is very high and built for outright speed at the sacrifices of low end. I would bolt it up and enjoy the new primary unless you want to hit the ton plus a whole lot more.
K

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,
     My experience with a Beaver trans and my cafe Lario are pretty equal. Yes, I have the V65 primary on the cafe. I LOVE it. I owned a B 750 so yes it's close. The Lario stock primary is very high and built for outright speed at the sacrifices of low end. I would bolt it up and enjoy the new primary unless you want to hit the ton plus a whole lot more.
K

I'll give it a try. Better not hurt my 50 mpg too much, though.. (Guzzi content) 

[kevdog3019]

I'll give it a try. Better not hurt my 50 mpg too much, though.. (Guzzi content) 

Hey... if you're looking for a bike with a good overdrive just buy a bike with a good overdrive!  Kidding kidding 

I think you will see mid 40's is my guess.

btw... I'm right at 5k rpm in fifth @70mph on my cafe. I think 80mph is about 5600RPM.

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

So bying a breva gearbox will give me a little less top-speed, a bit better acceleration.

Didn't quite get the other bit, do I need to buy the gearbox-cover of the breva, or can I keep the lario gearbox-cover?

[Vasco DG]

So bying a breva gearbox will give me a little less top-speed, a bit better acceleration.

Didn't quite get the other bit, do I need to buy the gearbox-cover of the breva, or can I keep the lario gearbox-cover?

Sorry, can you expand? I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying you want to use one of the cases from the Lario box? If so why?

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sorry, can you expand? I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying you want to use one of the cases from the Lario box? If so why?

Pete

He's referring to my question. I've already done the steel sleeve in the u joint cover on mine, and was wondering if I could use that part of the casting. I could always make another sleeve, of course.

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

Yep, trying to be brief, and post in a second language can cause communicaton-issues.

I'm learning from this thread the possebility to swap the original lario gear-box with a 750Breva-gearbox, as the latter apparently have solved problems found on the Lario gearbox regarding the 5th gear ending up grinded to bits, as it's only room for .9l oil instead of 1l that is needed to get the 5th gear running smoothly without ending up grinded to bits (If I have understood other replies to this thread correctly)

What I'm asking is if the breva gears can be swapped with the lario gears, or if I need to also buy the entire breva gearbox (cover and all) to make the gears fit.

I tried to get the gearbox open today, but had to give up, as it seems that I need a special tool to lock the main drive gear in order to get loose the bolt on top of the axle. I'm not ready to destroy that gear, it looks brand new after running for 29 years...

[kevdog3019]

I hate to say it, but that nut is damn near impossible to undue. Bring it to a shop and have them try it. Guzzi or BMW shop. You are talking the main output of transmission shaft??
Not sure about the gears fitting but my guess says nada. If you want to go that route, don't worry about that nut and buy a beaver box and leave the Lario box as is.

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

I hate to say it, but that nut is damn near impossible to undue. Bring it to a shop and have them try it. Guzzi or BMW shop. You are talking the main output of transmission shaft??
Not sure about the gears fitting but my guess says nada. If you want to go that route, don't worry about that nut and buy a beaver box and leave the Lario box as is.

Just back in after a second attempt. It does screw the normal direction, doesn't it? That nut is really hard  I know a former Guzzi mechanic now working at a car-garage, I'll have him try on monday, opening the box together and see  how those gears look. Then I can hear with him what he thinks about trying a breva gearbox, or buying new gears for the Lario  :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

[kevdog3019]

Regular threads-- lefty loosey. It is peened that nut.

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

Regular threads-- lefty loosey. It is peened that nut.

Just had to ask, stupid if I only tightened it when I tried to loosen it 
It's pinned, or peened I saw that it was sort of locked and I have undone that, it's still stuck. I'm having someone look into it on monday. That nut have probably been there since the factory put it together some time around 1985

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

Finally got that nut open, had to take it to a car mechanic who used to be a guzzi mechanic. He's just bought a California EV, and I showed him my new Corsa :) We looked at the gearbox together, and I have to replace the gears for the 5th.


As I have decided the gearbox have to be fixed for me to bother to go ahead with the Caf�-project, I've experimented with polishing up rusty and corrosive surfaces while waiting for that gearbox. Have bought several different sand-papers, but have fallen in love with steel-brushes that can be attached to a drill. Here's the result of some 2 hours on one of the rear suspensions. The spring was 100% covered in thick rust. Still shows, but much better. Bought some stiffer steel-brushes today.

The chrome on the front suspension is seriously attacked by rust :( Is it possible to grind it away, or do I need to have them re-chromed, or is it cheaper to just buy new front-suspension (the tubes, not the entire front suspension...)?

[mrrick]

In my experience, using steel brushes to clean off the rust is not very effective because it is very difficult (impossible) to remove the rust and still retain the VERY thin chrome plating.
As soon as the plating is gone, the rust returns immediately.
Regarding the fork tubes, I would recommend new ones for sure.  Even if you could get all the rust removed, you still would have a very irregular surface.  This rough surface will grind away at the seals and ruin them also, with leaks to follow.  In fact, the seals are probably already compromised.  New tubes and seals.   

[Bjorn Are Stolen]

In my experience, using steel brushes to clean off the rust is not very effective because it is very difficult (impossible) to remove the rust and still retain the VERY thin chrome plating.
As soon as the plating is gone, the rust returns immediately.
Regarding the fork tubes, I would recommend new ones for sure.  Even if you could get all the rust removed, you still would have a very irregular surface.  This rough surface will grind away at the seals and ruin them also, with leaks to follow.  In fact, the seals are probably already compromised.  New tubes and seals.

This is excactly what I experienced as well. The steelbrush managed to remove the rust where the chrome have been penentrated, but the surface still looks ugly. Luckily there is no rust where the suspension travels, so regarding the seals, it's no problem. So the question is only regarding looks, not maintainance.

But thanks for the reply, I will probably order new forks when the wallet allows it, first I want it to run flawless :)

[Muzz]

I hate to say it, but that nut is damn near impossible to undue.

Yup.  I have some experience in that department!

To Bjorn, two special spanners are needed if you ever need to take it apart again, one can be made out of a clutch centre, the other from a 24mm socket with the top cut off.  Very long, strong handles are then welded on and then, if you are lucky, you can undo the nut of doom.  Sometimes having  can help.

[kevdog3019]

Forks aint worth a damn but others will tell you otherwise.