Keeping track of offenders and ex-offenders

[Tom]

This link may help you if you want to keep track and have input into an offenders outcome. If they go to prison in your state and have been a victim, you may want some input into their release.  Your choice.

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/initMap.do

[Two Checks]

How does one become an ex offender?

[Two Checks]

Once you commit the offense I never knew you could undo it...

[rodekyll]

An ex-offender is how you become an ex.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

An ex-offender is one who, having the desire to get his shit together, does so, and gets a job and becomes a law abiding taxpayer.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  And here I thought it was one who offended an ex.  I. E. a divorced wife beater who harasses his ex.

[Tom]

An ex-offender is one who has maxed out his sentence and served his time or is currently working on serving his time.  Those of you who have an ex-spouse that offends you is your problem. 

[Lannis]

An ex-offender is one who, having the desire to get his shit together, does so, and gets a job and becomes a law abiding taxpayer.

Really now ... does that ever happen?   I mean in real life?   

I thought you said you made them smarter, not more moral .....

Lannis

[Stormtruck2]

Really now ... does that ever happen?   I mean in real life?   

I thought you said you made them smarter, not more moral .....

Lannis

Having worked in corrections for years, I can honestly say I have seen a few actually get out and get their poop in a group.  The vast majority, not so much.

[Tom]

The link was for anyone interested in keeping tabs on these people. 

[Tom]

 :1:

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Really now ... does that ever happen?   I mean in real life?   

I thought you said you made them smarter, not more moral .....

Lannis

It happens quite a lot actually. The most important factor is employment. If a paroled convicts gets and keeps a job he is less likely to re-offend. The more access he has to drug rehab adds to his chances. I didn't try to teach morals. I tried to teach common sense and problem solving.

[Lannis]

It happens quite a lot actually. The most important factor is employment. If a paroled convicts gets and keeps a job he is less likely to re-offend. The more access he has to drug rehab adds to his chances. I didn't try to teach morals. I tried to teach common sense and problem solving.

For the guys I've known and tried to help, it's the "keeping" a job that's the hard part.   I've known guys who "want to" do well, and they interview well, and they get a job ....

.... but they are constitutionally incapable of showing up for work on a regular basis.    If it's not drug and alcohol problems, it's the fact that they've never in their lives seen a positive male role model who has gotten and kept and SHOWN UP FOR a real job.    One guy lost three jobs in succession because he missed over 5 days in the first 90-day probation period on EACH job, and got fired as a result.   

I guess that they don't realize that the company NEEDS them to be there and work so that the company can make money and HE can make a paycheck.   They think the whole world is a welfare program, and it doesn't really matter if you work or not ... ?

Lannis

[vstevens]

Its not a new idea, but I have to wonder why so little public money is invested into education and training (for youth and adults) when the outcomes generally mean a safer, healthier society and economy... rather than pouring money into failing prison/ correctional facilities.  Certainly its a complex issue and I admittedly haven't any answers.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Its not a new idea, but I have to wonder why so little public money is invested into education and training (for youth and adults) when the outcomes generally mean a safer, healthier society and economy... rather than pouring money into failing prison/ correctional facilities.  Certainly its a complex issue and I admittedly haven't any answers.

It is because we want all our little darlings to go to college. God help us if we want to promote vocational education.  It seems that having a vocational program in your school is elitist. Those folks ought to watch the "Frasier" episode where the two highly educated psychiatrists need a plumber. I tell my students that if they want to stay out of trouble and make some good money they need to learn a trade.

[normzone]

Damnit.

Another dearly held belief shattered.

Dusty, I would not have known it if you hadn't told me so, and I'm not even certain that I wholly believe you.

You'll always be the smartest guy in the room to me, no matter what anybody says.

[Tom]

Frankly, I think we're all dull knifes in the drawer.  I pay attention to everyone.  You never know. 

[rodekyll]

You have a gerbil?

[Lannis]

It is because we want all our little darlings to go to college. God help us if we want to promote vocational education.  It seems that having a vocational program in your school is elitist. Those folks ought to watch the "Frasier" episode where the two highly educated psychiatrists need a plumber. I tell my students that if they want to stay out of trouble and make some good money they need to learn a trade.

That IS a big problem.   I used to be on our Vocational Education Advisory Committee for our county some years back, and then got elected to our school board, and I was right in the middle of the fight.

It's really surprising when you support vocational education, how many loud people protest that you are trying to "force" kids into "trade school" for the benefit of "greedy businessmen" who need "blue collar workers".    They seem to think that every kid should/must/wants to go to college, maybe to get a degree in French Lit that will never get them a job anywhere.   

But investing in educational programs or training curricula is never going to help any kid who, for two or three generations back, has never seen a wage-earning positive father figure in his life.    Work?   What's that?   Who does that?   What kind of punk is going to get up every morning and slave away all day for "The Man"?   

Lack of "Programs" is not the problem .....

Lannis

[Tom]

I think the biggest problem is the lack of good parenting.  Looks like a large number is defaulting to electronics.

[biking sailor]

Interesting on the University vs Vocational training discussion.  Just this week I was talking with my 21 year old son and several of his friends from high school.  They were stressing out about "making it big" after finishing their degrees from state colleges in a year or so.  I dawned on me that these kids have been told things to boost their self-esteem since kindergarten such as "your future is unlimited", "nothing you can't achieve", "you can be great"...  It looked to me like it was having the opposite effect in how stressed they were about their future.

I reminded them of what I had told them when I coached them in sports, that the best players on the two teams tend to cancel each other out, and the games are often won by how well the non-star (weaker) players do.  How the "Greatest Generation" was credited with winning WWII not because they were super human or anything like that, but those young men just stepped up and did the terrible job they had to do, and as an army of many, changed the course of history.

I really think education and society should tell the kids the truth, that they don't have to be exceptional to do well.  All they really have to do is prepare themselves for a job, follow the process' the boss wants them to do with an attention to detail, and show up for work everyday on time.  If they do these things they can make a decent living and enjoy a good life.  That's what the vast majority successful people do.  They don't have to come up with the next Facebook or start Apple.

[rodekyll]

I think sometimes that the push to academia rather than vocational training has to do with the perception of wealth.  There was a time when copious consumption was admired -- morbidly obese families were wealthy enough to afford lots of food.  Royals dripped in jewelry while their serfs dripped sweat.  Those displays are losing favor and morphing into overindulged children, faddish consumer goods, and kids in college -- all displays of excess wealth and leisure time.

[Lannis]

I really think education and society should tell the kids the truth, that they don't have to be exceptional to do well.  All they really have to do is prepare themselves for a job, follow the process' the boss wants them to do with an attention to detail, and show up for work everyday on time.  If they do these things they can make a decent living and enjoy a good life. 

My parents taught me that.   "Education and Society" had little to do with it, as far as I remember .... ?

Lannis

[Tom]

One of the biggest misconceptions is that many equate having money as the same as having happiness.  All it means is that you're unhappy with more stuff.

[biking sailor]

One of the biggest misconceptions is that many equate having money as the same as having happiness.  All it means is that you're unhappy with more stuff.

Big difference between wealthy and comfortable.  While money won't buy happiness, it's hard to enjoy life it you don't have the money for necessities, food, clothing, and shelter.  Being unemployed with no prospects (lack of marketable skills in a depressed economy) can be quite stressful.

[Lannis]

Being unemployed with no prospects (lack of marketable skills in a depressed economy) can be quite stressful.

That's true.   But we have billions of dollars worth of "programs" to make the acquisition of marketable skills possible for anyone, so you would think that no one would be in that position you describe for long.

You and I and this list (people with jobs and ISPs and Guzzis and homes), if we suddenly found ourselves alone in the middle of the street with only the clothes on our back, no friends, no money, no home ... we'd be back "on our feet" in pretty short order.   We'd apply at a local shelter for food and a roof, and we would follow the rules that would allow us to stay there.   (Strike One for many homeless).    We'd sign up for a training program that would pay us a small stipend to go to school and work a job - a piss-poor job, but a job.  (Strike Two for the terminally unemployed - they're not going to be anyone's "boy" or bust their butt for "The Man", or maybe they don't want to quit drinking ...).   And we'd hang in there, and show up for work, and get a better, real, job, and rent an apartment, even if it meant moving to St Louis or WHEREVER the job was (Strike Three - people want to stay right where they are and not go where the work is).

We can't even think like they do, not any more. 

It's just like I can't think like our company CEO.   He started out in the mail room, worked his way up, now making $500K a year and probably $2M in the bank.   ME, if I had that, I'd quit working RIGHT THEN and invest my money in annuities and retire and never work again, but the guy who has the capability to GET to that level doesn't think like me - he's not working for the money, he's working for power and prestige and I can't think like that - just like the homeless guy can't think like I do ....

But people have such a hard time putting themselves in someone else's shoes ....

Lannis

[Tom]

 :1:

[Kent in Upstate NY]

" we would follow the rules that would allow us to stay there.   (Strike One for many homeless)." That's fine. However, most homeless are mentally ill and are unable to follow any rules without treatment. The only treatment the homeless mentally ill receive is that mandated by the courts once they wind up in prison. California has 36+ state prisons and only 3 state mental hospitals.

[Tom]

Unfortunately the majority of health care for the mentally ill is carried out by the jails in the U.S.

[Lannis]

" we would follow the rules that would allow us to stay there.   (Strike One for many homeless)." That's fine. However, most homeless are mentally ill and are unable to follow any rules without treatment. The only treatment the homeless mentally ill receive is that mandated by the courts once they wind up in prison. California has 36+ state prisons and only 3 state mental hospitals.

Totally agree that most homeless are mentally ill and unable to follow the rules that would allow them food and shelter.

So what do we do?   Unless a homeless person is an immediate danger to himself or others, or demonstrably violent, he CAN'T be "committed" to a mental institution - it violates his civil rights.   But if he's left on the street, he eventually WILL become a danger to himself or others, and ends up in jail.

In the meantime, people who don't understand the situation are all like "Why are so many homeless on the streets in the richest country in the world?"   We've got places for ALL of them, but they won't stay in the ones that aren't jails, and then they end UP in jail .....

No easy solution.

Lannis