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ITSec, I understand your point, but I think it's based on at least a couple of false premises. If you want high ZDDP, you have to look at the spec sheet and see how much is there. Relying on a Cx diesel spec doesn't tell you how much is there. If you want a certain dynamic friction window (JASO MA, for example), you have to either look for the rating you want on the bottle or ask the blender/marketer if the product meets that spec. One would never guess, for example, that Red Line's automotive 0W20 meets JASO MA dynamic friction specs, but it does. :-)Do current (or recent) MG cam followers require super-high ZDDP levels to stay together? Do they require relatively high dynamic viscosity to stay together?
To further the discussion that's been your experience and for that sample size it's what it is.When I was associated with a Triumph shop we saw two clutches that slipped excessively due to car oil being used. Now why those did when other customers did not have that experience is unknown to me.I've also seen a clutch rebuilt at my friends shop in New England-that sample size is one, for the same oil related reason. One reasonable conclusion from this small sample is that it's possible to have clutch slip. Why? Unknown. However, having had the lead tech experience even one failure means that the service dept. has a reasonable duty to at least inform a customer that a slip situation is possible. There have been no insistences of clutch slip using M/C rated oils.There may be other conclusions to be had.
I don't think I relied on any false premises, since I didn't say anything about what should or should not be in the oil other than when changes occur it's important to understand what has changed.The question was asked about why diesel oil, and the answer is that many motorcyclists have been quite satisfied by using such an oil, especially since most oil for diesel engines does not have all the anti-friction additives that adversely affect wet clutches.
First, the diesel spec matters if there is a change to any additives to increase slip
feedstock-based double-ester synthetic (i.e., natural gas cracked to create base molecules, then put back together in a boutique design)
I'm stunned so many here rely on oil made for low revving diesel motors
It reads to me like you essentially repeated that premise again, above. AFAIK, dynamic frictional characteristics (the 'slipperiness' that can be an issue for wet clutch bikes) are not part of the Cx spec series. Even if a person is accustomed to a limited number of HDEOs being qualified, or at least demonstrated 'good enough' in actual use, for JASO MA, I believe the Cx spec does not include anything about that. Thus, the notion that a Cx rated oil is within the dynamic friction parameters one may want is coincidental, not consequential of the spec, and so tying new Cx specs to dynamic friction changes is a false premise.The second part I sort of keyed on was the implication that old-design engines require 'old' anti-wear chemistry. I disagree with that, even if certain things are done extremely commonly that may make it appear true.I recognize that lubes are MUCH more about peace of mind, trust, and assumption for essentially all of us than they are about informed choice and protection, because there simply isn't hardly any information publicly (and easily/no-cost) available about either individual oils' properties OR the things a vehicle supplier has tested and found necessary.As an aside regarding most 10w60 being Esters are not made from 'feedstock' or natural gas, they're made by reacting alcohols with acids. :-) I'm guessing you're thinking of PAOs, but maybe you're thinking of PAGs?
If you think oil threads here get messy, just read the lengthy disputes over what a 'synthetic' truly is on some other boards!
I think it's safe to say that no one here knows enough about engine oil and the engineering/metallurgy of our engines to guarantee a long service life using non approved oils. If you care about the longevity of you Guzzi just pay the extra $20 or do the ebay/craigslist thing.
PS:Discussing oil on a message board is like texting your way out of and argument with your wife. It never ends.
Or, get in a fight with a skunk and, win or lose, either way you end up stinking.
Wildroot-ha! Made just down the street from me long ago.
Do you guys spread Rotella on your toast in the morning...oh wait a minute...that's Nutella! I knew I was doing something wrong today! :)I wonder how many grades of Nutella there are on the market - chocolate, pistacchio, perhaps there is a proper viscosity for the Guzzi too!
A thin layer is all you need - definitely not a clump! Toast up some sourdough, a little light coating of butter and a top layer of Nutella, along with the morning coffee and you are good to ride at least until noon! Almost as good as spreading Dulce de leche on!
I'm a Dapper Dan man, myself...