The Moto Guzzi V9 Roamer

[ohiorider]

And foot pegs/controls several inches further forward and cruiser wheel/tire sizes.

In less than a month, the V7-III will be announced, with the same new cylinder heads, and either 850cc for the Racer replacement, hopefully a Nuevo LeMans, and 750cc for the rest of the V7 lineup, or, hopefully 850cc for the entire lineup for the USA, and the 750cc version for those markets with the 49HP threshold for tiered licensing.

Jas, do you think the V7 III will essentially be a V9?  In addition to a different engine than the V7II, didn't MG make some changes to the driveline and final drive of the V9? 

[bad Chad]

Jas, do you think the V7 III will essentially be a V9?  In addition to a different engine than the V7II, didn't MG make some changes to the driveline and final drive of the V9?

Oh the stuff dreams are made of...

[pete roper]

Yes, the bevelbox finally got an update and the swingarm/driveshaft assembly is different. Gone is the single trunnion on the front of the driveshaft, in comes a double ended shaft as with earlier bikes with reactive drives but without the in line shock absorber.

The newer, much beefier, bevelbox may at least presage some sort of real performance increase down the tracks but the use of twin couplings in the driveshaft would seem to me to be more about component life and the eradication of varying output in the driveline than anything else.

Pete

[ITSec]

 But in my defense, I'm big-boned. 

Sure, Cartman! 

[Tom]

The pasta has nothing to do with it. 

[jas67]

Jas, do you think the V7 III will essentially be a V9?  In addition to a different engine than the V7II, didn't MG make some changes to the driveline and final drive of the V9?

Yes, I think it will be mechanically the V9 (including the beefier swing arm & final drive) with the body work, wheel sizes, seat, and foot control positions of the V7II.    There may be some evolutionary changes, but, the general theme will be there.   The V7 is a great seller for them, they'd be fools to mess with the overall look and feel.

If not, I'll be enjoying the two that I have for a lot longer.

[Kev m]

Speaking of IBA: I did a lot of long runs with each of my 3 SV650S's, a Guzzi and a few of those Kraut bikes. A favorite mile extender is a collapsible fuel bladder in a tank bag. If the bike is FI find the return line and tap in after the pressure regulator, if so fitted.

What bikes are still using EFI fuel return lines? That's unnecessary with pretty much anything that uses an in tank pump.

[Kev m]

Yes, I think it will be mechanically the V9 (including the beefier swing arm & final drive) with the body work, wheel sizes, seat, and foot control positions of the V7II.    There may be some evolutionary changes, but, the general theme will be there.   The V7 is a great seller for them, they'd be fools to mess with the overall look and feel.

Agreed...

Sure, Cartman! 

[emoji56]

[jas67]

Sure, Cartman! 

[ohiorider]

Hmmmm .... a V9 Roamer with V7 ergos, cosmetics, and large fuel tank sounds like a winner, especially if the V9 suspension is more compliant from the factory than what I've read about V7 suspension.  If I weighed 200+ lb, perhaps the stock v7 suspension would be ok.  I would like to buy a new bike with really compliant suspension from the get-go, and without having to throw $$ at it.

Example, my 1200 Sport suspension (OEM) works beautifully for me on our somewhat rough NE Ohio  secondary roads.  OTOH, I was never able to really smooth out the ride of my 2012 Griso 8vSE, which was one of the reasons the Griso and I parted company.

My 2003 Bonneville also came from the factory with miserable rear shocks.  Over-sprung and under-damped.  A set of 440 Progressives worked very well, (once changed springs from 120/170 to 105/150 spring rate,) as did a set of Progressive fork springs.  But the Bonnie was a used bike, and even after  buying new suspension components, exhaust, etc, I was still far below OEM price for a new bike.

Anyone know if the V9's come with better suspension than the current v7II series?  Or am I totally off base thinking the V7 suspension is non-compliant?

Bob

[rocker59]

Hmmmm .... a V9 Roamer with V7 ergos, cosmetics, and large fuel tank sounds like a winner, especially if the V9 suspension is more compliant from the factory than what I've read about V7 suspension.  If I weighed 200+ lb, perhaps the stock v7 suspension would be ok.  I would like to buy a new bike with really compliant suspension from the get-go, and without having to throw $$ at it.
 

V9 Racer coming.  Should be shown at EICMA in Milan, next Month.

Test Mule has been seen sporting Ohlins shocks.

[Kev m]

Bob, I think you're fooling yourself if you think a more base level bike like a V7 or V9 is going to come with decent suspension (the Racer being a possible exception but the extra is in the price).

[ohiorider]

Bob, I think you're fooling yourself if you think a more base level bike like a V7 or V9 is going to come with decent suspension (the Racer being a possible exception but the extra is in the price).

I suspect you're right, Kev.  Just wishful thinking on my part. 

Here's what I cannot figure ...... if a manufacturer copied an expensive shock, but used less-than-unobtanium materials to make it, couldn't they 'copy' the valving and shim stack, and use a similar spring rate to arrive at a cheaper suspension system that actually works? 

[Huzo]

I don't understand all of the in's and out's that's said here, but it seems like a lot of hand wringing and buggerising around to get get a beaut tourer with acceptable range that's not too massive. Why not go and grab a low mileage Norge and just go, or if that's too big, get an 850 Norge if you can, fill it up and go !!! BTW it doesn't HAVE to have 8 valves... Really. I didn't have to adjust mine @ 80,000 or 100,000. But that's off topic a bit. I haven't done the sums, but the money you'd save would probably pay for an overseas trip of some sort on it. Nordkapp 2017 ???

[Kev m]

Bob, I don't have an answer, but I suspect if it was that simple, they'd do it. I think instead manufacturers do the best they can for the price. And it's a compromise considering the possible sizes of riders.

Huzo, I think the problem is the physical size and weight of the Norge or other CARC is an issue

 The smallblocks are and feel significantly lighter. And there's no such thing as an 850 Norge on these shores.

[ohiorider]

I don't understand all of the in's and out's that's said here, but it seems like a lot of hand wringing and buggerising around to get get a beaut tourer with acceptable range that's not too massive. Why not go and grab a low mileage Norge and just go, or if that's too big, get an 850 Norge if you can, fill it up and go !!! BTW it doesn't HAVE to have 8 valves... Really. I didn't have to adjust mine @ 80,000 or 100,000. But that's off topic a bit. I haven't done the sums, but the money you'd save would probably pay for an overseas trip of some sort on it. Nordkapp 2017 ???

Huzo, I agree with your post that states "it doesn't have to have 8 valves."  I'll admit, my 8 valve Griso pulled harder in every gear than my 1200 Sport 2 valve/cylinder, but I would switch from one bike to the other and simply enjoy the differences in how each engine produced power.  In many riding situations, I found the 2v/cylinder Sport to be sweeter  through its entire rpm range.

Re the Norge 850, I doubt that it is much  lighter or less massive than the Norge 1200, since as I understand it, the 850 is basically a 1200 engine with smaller bores.  The 850 and 1200 probably weigh about the same.

BTW - I "grabbed" a 2 valve 1200 Sport in 2009 and never looked back.

[jas67]

.... And there's no such thing as an 850 Norge on these shores.

And, the 850 Norge is just as heavy as the 1200.

[Kev m]

I've ridden both, and would still prefer the 2V CARC, but I'm odd like that.

I bought a smallblock V7 INSTEAD of the Harley XRX.

I sold the 100 rwhp Buell and kept the V7 and 60 rwhp Sporty.

At the track day this summer I had a ball on the V7 and when my wife offered me her Monster I said no thanks, I'm already having all the fun I need on the V7.

See a pattern?

[Kev m]

And, the 850 Norge is just as heavy as the 1200.

I figured, like the 850 oil heads, and some of the R65 airheads too right?

[Huzo]

And, the 850 Norge is just as heavy as the 1200.

Oh ok, that's educated me a bit more thanks. Maybe you could argue that the holes are smaller so therefore it might even be heavier. BTW, when at Broadford recently I saw an 850 Red Griso and it looked really good without the radiator thing hanging off the side. Just out of interest 'cos I don't own one, can the radiator monstrosity on the 1100 be cuddled up under the steering stem, I'm wondering how much bulk is taken away if you remove what looks like a plastic cover.  I bet Old Jock could work something out.

[pete roper]

Relocating the oil cooler on an 1100 Griso is no big deal. The 'Box' it sits in is a big alloy casting. Personally it's asymmetry is one of the things I think makes the Griso outstanding to look at but each to their own. Also with the 1100 and 1200 2VPC models, with the possible exception of the Norge, the oil cooler is pretty much redundant. You could safely delete it entirely in most environments.

Pete

[jas67]

I figured, like the 850 oil heads, and some of the R65 airheads too right?

Exactly!   Well, IIRC, the R65 actually has a slightly lighter, smaller frame, but, I'd have to double check that.
But, the 850 CARCs and 850 oil heads are exactly the same as their 1100-1200cc larger siblings, just less displacement.

[Kev m]

Exactly!   Well, IIRC, the R65 actually has a slightly lighter, smaller frame, but, I'd have to double check that.

IIRC at one point it did, but not for all of its production. I believe there were years when it used the same frame.

[jas67]

IIRC at one point it did, but not for all of it's production. I believe there were years when it used the same frame.

Yes, I think the monolever ones (1985 and newer) were the same frame as the other (monolever) airheads.

[Huzo]

Relocating the oil cooler on an 1100 Griso is no big deal. The 'Box' it sits in is a big alloy casting. Personally it's asymmetry is one of the things I think makes the Griso outstanding to look at but each to their own. Also with the 1100 and 1200 2VPC models, with the possible exception of the Norge, the oil cooler is pretty much redundant. You could safely delete it entirely in most environments.

Pete

Jeez, that's something I wouldn't have thought !

[rocker59]

  as I understand it, the 850 is basically a 1200 engine with smaller bores.  The 850 and 1200 probably weigh about the same.
 

Maybe you could argue that the holes are smaller so therefore it might even be heavier. 

No.  Same bore as the 1100.  The 850 has a short stroke. 

The Bellagio used the same short stroke crank as the 850 but used the 1200 top end to get 940cc.

[Huzo]

Bob, I don't have an answer, but I suspect if it was that simple, they'd do it. I think instead manufacturers do the best they can for the price. And it's a compromise considering the possible sizes of riders.

Huzo, I think the problem is the physical size and weight of the Norge or other CARC is an issue

 The smallblocks are and feel significantly lighter. And there's no such thing as an 850 Norge on these shores.

ok Kev, fair enough

[Huzo]

No.  Same bore as the 1100.  The 850 has a short stroke. 

The Bellagio used the same short stroke crank as the 850 but used the 1200 top end to get 940cc.

There's a lot I don't know about these beaut Guzzis. Very surprised to hear the word from Pete about the oil cooler overkill on some carcs. But that 850 must be massively oversquare to retain the 1200's bore and then shorten the stroke to reduce the displacement by around 33%. What are they like to ride ? I can under stand to reduce the piston area by an amount you don't need as large a reduction in diameter, but to acheive a 1/3 reduction in displacement I'd of thought that needs a 1/3 reduction in stroke ? Am I up the put here ?

[Huzo]

No.  Same bore as the 1100.  The 850 has a short stroke. 

The Bellagio used the same short stroke crank as the 850 but used the 1200 top end to get 940cc.

I should have checked first, the 850 Norge is 91 x 65 so the bore is 4mm less than the 1200's. I think ??

[lucydad2]

V9 Racer coming.  Should be shown at EICMA in Milan, next Month.

Test Mule has been seen sporting Ohlins shocks.

Checked out the V9s at our new Houston dealer a couple weeks back.  Dislike the tank, single dial and unfinished frame look.  Waiting to see if they put the new engine into a Special type frame.  New Triumph T100 also intrigues me.  Might test a V9 if dealer is cooperative.  Meanwhile V7R running like champ.