Author Topic: 1100 engine fitment issues  (Read 1914 times)

Offline Lesman

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1100 engine fitment issues
« on: January 21, 2018, 06:08:58 PM »
I'm building an Eldo. A deal on a 1100 motor might be in the works. So a couple of questions. I would like to run a car type alternator. Does a Breva  pully for the alternator and front engine cover fit the 1100 motor?  Will a Silent Hendrik Ignition work  to allow the use of carbs? I know the 1100 has a Different type alternator
(The back up plan for inability to run a car type alternator).
Will the 1100 run with 40mm flatsides. I've had a set in a box for 24 years. I got a great deal on them for my GSPD. Never installed them.
I never thought about a Convert Transmission. Would a electric pump setup be needed to make it work? What about the driveshaft, u joint , swing arm and rearend? Just floating some ideas.

Thanks,
Les

Offline lazlokovacs

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 06:32:47 PM »
the 1100 definitely runs with Dellorto roundslide 40s if that helps in anyway.....


Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 06:53:14 PM »
To help us answer your questions, what's the "1100 motor" out of?
Charlie

Offline troyhamilton

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 07:54:06 PM »
Lesman. us a harley davidson 2 wire voltage regulater. has 2 yellow wires running in, 1 wire back to your battery. thats what im running on my 850t! easy to build a new harnes, you can do it. you can see my build in the builds section. youll need to bore the dist tunnel and run points or a dyna!
. now heres what im going to tell you about the Silent Hektic ign. its garbage, you can backfire thru the carbs on the wasted spark thing and burn your bike ask Pete Roper.
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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 07:54:06 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 08:21:08 PM »
To help us answer your questions, what's the "1100 motor" out of?

I'm assuming a Tonti 1100 because a breva-type already has a car type alternator.

A fast check would be to compare the timing cover gaskets.  If they look like a bolt-up (probably a few holes different, but still boltable) then you're probably golden.  The loop has more room for an alternator, but the Breva front cover might still be a bit tall.

I went the other way sort of -- put a Breva engine in a Tonti.  The front cover is very different.  I was able to put a Convert timing cover on the Breva, so I think the Breva cover will work on the Tonti 1100.  The crank seal is different, the breathing is different, and there are mount point differences.  The big difference will be where a Tonti would have the forward engine mount bolt.  The Breva doesn't use it.  Probably not an issue for you, because the loop frame can't use the standard Tonti mount anyway -- you need to do some bracket work.  You'll also need to figure out a lower pulley arrangement for the tapered Tonti crank.  the Breva crank is not tapered.

I have a complete Breva 1200 timing cover, pulleys, alternator, belt cover, etc.  Unused.  Should be all the Guzzi bits needed to do the conversion except misc fasteners.  PM if interested and I can get a kit together for you.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 08:32:08 PM »
You'll also need to figure out a lower pulley arrangement for the tapered Tonti crank.  the Breva crank is not tapered.

I have a complete Breva 1200 timing cover, pulleys, alternator, belt cover, etc.  Unused.  Should be all the Guzzi bits needed to do the conversion except misc fasteners.  PM if interested and I can get a kit together for you.
This is why I asked.

The "nose" of EV 1100 and Breva 1100 cranks are quite different judging from these illustrations.

EV:
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/bilder/auto/breite_800/0003035a.jpg




Breva:
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/bilder/auto/breite_800/303037373054.gif




 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 08:35:30 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 08:37:42 PM »
making it a Convert is a whole second can of beans.. can be done but the electric pump won't be an easy set up..maybe study how RK did his,  and the you'll need a Vert flywheel so will need to mill the hole in back end of the crankshaft to fit the nub of the torq converter. probably just need to remove the threads (used to compress the 5 speed clutch springs) in the end of crank. after the Vert transmission you need a Convert driveshaft/u-joint, swingarm and rear drive.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 11:01:51 PM »
Pop in a Convert camshaft.  It's a drop-in.  Don't mess with milling the end of the crank for the torque converter -- cut the knob off the front of the converter.  It's only there to help center the t/c, and you still need to use the dial indicator to get the runout right, so you don't lose anything by losing the knob.

Otherwise, what FG says -- everything from the rear of the crank rearward gets replaced.  The Convert/V1000 swing arm is set up for a disk brake, so you'll need a complete rear disk brake setup including wheel, too.  I don't know if a loop swing arm will work with the Convert drive shaft, which is unique.

Offline Lesman

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 10:54:06 AM »
Appreciate the replies.

I was looking at the diagrams that Charley sent. It appears I maybe  very foolish to think it would be easy easy swap for the Breva front cover being a direct swap  plus utilizing the Breva Pulley.  The Ducati Stator/Rotor setup is pretty robust. Without FI it puts out at least 350 watts. This is more than sufficient to run heated grips and drive lights plus when I lose my mind the engine bay lights that you can only see at night.
What ignition is available for  this engine? Since there is serious doubt to be using Silent Hendrik ignition.
I looked at my Mikuni 40mm flat side carbs. They are huge. So there is might be rethink on that. What other alternative carbs should be looked at? What size?
The Convert setup is cool but it appears that another idea for rethinking about.
Will the Eldo 5 speed be a straight bolt up? Should I look for a different 5 speed.If I do change trans . What drive rear end should be utilized?  My trans has not been apart. Nor my rear end. I assume "they" are OK until they are apart.

Thanks for your replies.

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2018, 11:18:52 AM »
Appreciate the replies.

I was looking at the diagrams that Charley sent. It appears I maybe  very foolish to think it would be easy easy swap for the Breva front cover being a direct swap  plus utilizing the Breva Pulley.  The Ducati Stator/Rotor setup is pretty robust. Without FI it puts out at least 350 watts. This is more than sufficient to run heated grips and drive lights plus when I lose my mind the engine bay lights that you can only see at night.
What ignition is available for  this engine? Since there is serious doubt to be using Silent Hendrik ignition.
I looked at my Mikuni 40mm flat side carbs. They are huge. So there is might be rethink on that. What other alternative carbs should be looked at? What size?
The Convert setup is cool but it appears that another idea for rethinking about.
Will the Eldo 5 speed be a straight bolt up? Should I look for a different 5 speed.If I do change trans . What drive rear end should be utilized?  My trans has not been apart. Nor my rear end. I assume "they" are OK until they are apart.

Thanks for your replies.

If you're using an EV 1100, then it might be best to stick with the PM alternator.

There are several crank fired ignitions that will work, the Silent Hektik is one:
http://www.motoguzzisales.co.uk/Silent%20Hektik.htm

An Eldo 5 spd. will bolt up without issues. Best to open it up for inspection and replacement of the shift return spring, seals, o-rings, gaskets, etc. at least. You'll want 8-37 (4.625:1 ratio) or 7-33 (4.714:1 ratio) rear drive gears.
Charlie

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2018, 12:45:38 PM »
Will the PM alternator stick out too far and interfere with the front fender on a loop?
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2018, 01:32:07 PM »
Will the PM alternator stick out too far and interfere with the front fender on a loop?

There would be interference with the fender with the stock front end, but IIRC (from his posts on ADV Rider) Lesman is fitting a "custom" front end.
Charlie

Offline Lesman

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 02:07:47 PM »
in a previous post,  Pete Roper had problems with the Silent Henkik ignition. This is the reason for my concern Their ignition looks like the "hot" setup. C5 only makes an ignition for distributor bikes.
According to Greg Bender's website. Some people had issues with the fender brace hitting the Alt cover during full compression.
I will have custom fender braces that bolt to the side of the fender at the bottom.
I'm running a Haybusa front end with  a custom triple tree and top plate. It will have  pretty close to stock rake and the  other
angle thing(I'm having a senior moment). My many engine questions are because I couldn't completely commit to a 850 motor.
I would have to modified the case/bearings/later sump pan to accept an oil filter. Cost has become a bit of an issue. What I want to do is in the $2700 to $3400 range. That's if a lot things are in good working shape. Don't know what shape the crank , rods and oil pump are in until the motor is split. Hence the search for a Convert/G5 motor .Cheaper to rebuild(Since there is an excellent chance you don't need to replace the cylinder/pistons, no conversion costs to have an oil filter) Then finally the 1100 motor from a California. A 1100 motor is my last choice. In the middle of the build my home was flooded in Sept.
The deal on the 1100 motor is still in flux.
Thanks for all replies.


Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 02:42:28 PM »
if you get the 1100 motor try to get all the electronics and wiring harness then you don't have to mess with milling case for a distributor.. In fact I would use the fuel injection too but you do have the carbs you've saved for 40 years, I can see why you'd want to use them?
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Offline Lesman

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Re: 1100 engine fitment issues
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 07:25:10 PM »
The electronics aren't available with the motor. The carbs are from the last century but aren't 40 years old. Did they have flatsides in the 70's? The 1100 is not a done deal yet. I hope to my mojo going with 1100 motor.

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