Griso Starter Issue

[jlburgess]

My bike started acting up last week.  When I press the starter button I get a clank but no spinning.  If I cycle the kill switch it will then start normally.  The battery was fully charged and is only about 6 months old.  Any ideas?  It's an '09 8V.
Thanks!

[lucian]

startus interuptus?    First I would check connections and grounds, but this is a known problem with some. I'm sure some of the more electrical savvy will be along,  good luck

here's a link on the subject

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=48127.0

[Kiwi_Roy]

A clank or quiet click?
Clean and grease the battery terminals for a start. The later Grisos suffer from wiring the solenoid through the ignition switch just like most other Guzzis, try flicking the switch a few times otherwise re-wire the start relay.


Sent from my shoe phone!

[Kiwi_Roy]

Could be the magnets in the starter broken loose as well


Sent from my shoe phone!

[jlburgess]

Kind of a click but louder than a relay.  Might be the starter solenoid sound.  Pressing the starter button again doesn't do anything until the kill switch is cycled.

[Wayne Orwig]

Is it a CLUNK, and not the faint relay under the seat?
If so, look at the HEAVY cables from the battery. Clean and tighten those. In particular, the ground cable that goes to the engine block. It might also be the contacts inside the starter solenoid need cleaning.

[Kiwi_Roy]

As Wayne says

The starter solenoid has 2 coils, it will pull over 40 Amps if it's wired right, it has a huge task to perform pulling the gear into mesh. Once it's done that one coil is powered down and the current drops back to ~10 Amps.
The problem is it's not wired very well, too much resistance in the circuit through the ignition switch, pulling the switch apart and cleaning the contacts used to work well on the older bikes but I haven't had mine apart (Griso 07) yet so I'm not sure what's involved.

My 07 is not wired through the ignition switch but they used a wimpy wire (looks like 22 AWG) from the start relay to the solenoid, I measured the resistance and calculated it would drop 1.8 Volts at 40 Amps just upgrading the wire size to 18 AWG made it operate 3 x faster. Its possible the wire on yours is too small as well.

I don't fully understand the relationship with the kill switch, I suppose it is possible that the contacts in it are so bad the ECU input is turning off, nothing to lose in cleaning the contact.

There is a wiring correction you can make but lets do the simple stuff first.

Hot wire the solenoid to prove it's not the starter, a wire from the solenoid to touch on the battery.

Drop the battery Negative off while you work on the switches etc.

[lucian]

Another thought in hindsight.  When I first got my griso I had a similar problem arise after a week or two of riding it for multiple short rides around town. Eventually the battery went weak from repeated starts as I was not riding it long enough to give it adequate time to re  charge . These seem to need a minimum voltage for the ecu to allow the start circuit to function normally. I cleaned my terminals and, as Wayne mentioned, the major ground for engine block, and now use a tender.  I haven't had another problem.

[jlburgess]

It's definitely more of a clunk.  I'm thinking the kill switch might be resetting something to do with the "momentary push" starting feature?  I'll look at the battery cables....

[guzzisteve]

If you want to check starter put 12V to the spade on solenoid, it will spin!! Make sure it's in neutral.  If it spins it's elsewhere (startus interuptus).

[Kiwi_Roy]

If you want to check starter put 12V to the spade on solenoid, it will spin!! Make sure it's in neutral.  If it spins it's elsewhere (startus interuptus).

Measure the Voltage from the spade connector to chassis while you try to start, if it's startus interuptus the Voltage will be low.

[Kiwi_Roy]

It's definitely more of a clunk.  I'm thinking the kill switch might be resetting something to do with the "momentary push" starting feature?  I'll look at the battery cables....

You may be correct, if you are resetting something it might be the ECU, are you getting any error codes?
Have you ensured the battery is topped up?, I'm wondering if it's tripping on Low Voltage

How many relays do you have under the seat, the Carl Allison drawing shows 5 but perhaps yours is only 4 like mine. http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Griso_8V.gif
Fang told me the additional relay called the Startup Maintenance relay was added to latch the start signal ON overriding the low Voltage interlock from the ECU, perhaps yours is resetting on low Voltage at the instant you press start. (see following scenario)

Dirty switch scenario
I'm still not convinced it's not an ignition switch problem
Contacts have become a little dirty over the years building up a fraction of an ohm
Huge inrush current to the solenoid pulls the Voltage downstream of the switch down .
ECU which is powered downstream of the switch sees the Low Voltage and trips.
The kill switch supply is also fed from downstream of the ignition switch, low Voltage might also fool the ECU that the kill switch has just been opened, though why it resets by cycling the switch is still beyond me. I was wrong the Main injection relay supplies the Voltage to the ECU and kill switch.

I wish I had a logic diagram of the ECU
There is an upgrade you can do removing the start relay supply from downstream to upstream of the ignition switch. if it were my bike I wouldn't add a relay. I think we have members here who have done the snip and tuck on the Griiso 8Valve yellow wire.

I think the wiring on late model Guzzis is the pits quite frankly!!!!!!!!!!!

[pete roper]

Does the LCD screen on the dash blank out for a few seconds after the clunk and then go through its sweep again? That's usually just dirty terminals.

Pete

[jlburgess]

Does the LCD screen on the dash blank out for a few seconds after the clunk and then go through its sweep again? That's usually just dirty terminals.

Pete

Nope, just the clunk and no spinning.
The battery was just on a battery tender the day before.  It's only happened twice so far but I really don't want to find out how hard it is to bump start the beast!

[Kiwi_Roy]

It's only happened twice so far but I really don't want to find out how hard it is to bump start the beast!

Sheesh, I though 99 x out of 100, not twice, that's just a co-incidence

I say you have to bump start it for the next month at least LOL

[jlburgess]

The two times have been in the last week.  I think they were both cold starts.

[lucian]

As mentioned , start with the easy stuff. Connection's , including ecu connector  and ecu ground, ect. But  before that, the first thing I would do is have the battery load tested once fully charged. Especially if it only happens when cold and has been sitting.  I know it's relatively new but you should rule it out first.

[Phang]

You may be correct, if you are resetting something it might be the ECU, are you getting any error codes?
Have you ensured the battery is topped up?, I'm wondering if it's tripping on Low Voltage

How many relays do you have under the seat, the Carl Allison drawing shows 5 but perhaps yours is only 4 like mine. http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Griso_8V.gif
Fang told me the additional relay called the Startup Maintenance relay was added to latch the start signal ON overriding the low Voltage interlock from the ECU, perhaps yours is resetting on low Voltage at the instant you press start. (see following scenario)

Dirty switch scenario
I'm still not convinced it's not an ignition switch problem
Contacts have become a little dirty over the years building up a fraction of an ohm
Huge inrush current to the solenoid pulls the Voltage downstream of the switch down .
ECU which is powered downstream of the switch sees the Low Voltage and trips.
The kill switch supply is also fed from downstream of the ignition switch, low Voltage might also fool the ECU that the kill switch has just been opened, though why it resets by cycling the switch is still beyond me. I was wrong the Main injection relay supplies the Voltage to the ECU and kill switch.

I wish I had a logic diagram of the ECU
There is an upgrade you can do removing the start relay supply from downstream to upstream of the ignition switch. if it were my bike I wouldn't add a relay. I think we have members here who have done the snip and tuck on the Griiso 8Valve yellow wire.

I think the wiring on late model Guzzis is the pits quite frankly!!!!!!!!!!!

very well written 

This is the perfect scenario and opportunity to try out the maintenance relay's function

press and hold the Start button instead of a quick momentary press, 50% chance it will crank 

[Chuck in Indiana]

The battery was just on a battery tender the day before.

That doesn't really mean much. Have you load tested it?
"especially" if it is an AGM, having it on a tender is a bad idea. It very well could be dead as a mackerel.

[Guzzidad]

    This is probably completely unrelated to your starting problem, but I had a problem on my 01 EV for over a year. I could hit the start button and hear a click but no starter revolution. Several more stabs at the starter button and the bike would start. It never left me stranded so I didn't worry about it. Fast forward, a couple of weeks ago I decided to change my front turn signals. Never liked the after market signals the PO installed so I found a set on E-Bay for $17. When I removed the old signals I found a really bad ground on the left side. I installed the new blinkers and they work great, but what do you know? Now my starter works every time I push the button. I haven't figured out the connection yet but those Italian electrical engineers know how to mess with our minds.

[motoman]

I know this is an old thread, but like many, I was experiencing Startus Interruptus on my 2010 Griso SE 8V

And I had already installed the MPH Relay fix.

Confirmed that the Solenoid was bad. Starter motor was actually OK.   However, my Solenoid is sealed no way to get in and clean it up.

Was able to source a Bosch Starter/Solenoid  Part No:  001 106 407  MG-BOS3 from Euro Moto Electrics.

All is good now. 

They are currently listing one on eBay.

 I did also find a Solenoid for $68 bucks.  Considered getting that to upgrade my OEM unit.  But probably better to just get another whole unit when/if this one fails.

Anyone want an OEM Starter with non-functional solenoid?  Yours for shipping cost.