Something you Cali 1400 owners won�t want to hear.....

[Kev m]

Kev, don�t make me an apologist for Piaggio. For all that they�ve kept the marque alive I believe they have turned it into a shadow of what it was. To describe their problems as unique is fatuous though. All of the major manufacturers are on a race to the bottom, it�s the way society makes things work.

Pete

Dude, the best you got is Ducati swelling tanks?

They stopped using the plastic or went with covers so the swelling wouldn't matter and they replaced faulty tanks for 10 years.

And if the bean counters were to blame on the rollers, ok, but that doesn't excuse it. Nor excuse them continuing to sell them when they KNEW they'd fail. Or not covering rollerization anyone any more.

No man sorry... I'm not buying the comparisons.

Other companies make mistakes, then they LEARN FROM THEM and THEY HANDLE IT.

[Kev m]

Oh Pete I forgot.... Just like their engine assembly guys...

:1:  I'm with Pete on this one.  Would you rather own a low maintenance boring bike or an exotic beauty that needs grease now and then?  Lot's of other brands have problems and launch products with sub standard components. Nothing new here.  A Guzzi may not be for everyone, but if you can change a  tire on a Schwinn 10 speed, you can probably handle anything they throw at you.

... Yeah, cause it's easy to tear down a motor to the crankshaft when the factory FORGETS TO INSTALL THE THRUST WASHER!!!


Then, they didn't even try to identify a range of effected bikes. They let dealers SELL THEM and when the engines ate themselves at the block they replaced the engine.

You know that new bike you bought last month, we're gonna need it for 3-4 months before we give it back to you with a new motor.

Yeah, EVERYONE can fix that and it happens to all other manufacturers!

Snort

[pete roper]

Dude, the best you got is Ducati swelling tanks?

They stopped using the plastic or went with covers so the swelling wouldn't matter and they replaced faulty tanks for 10 years.

And if the bean counters were to blame on the rollers, ok, but that doesn't excuse it. Nor excuse them continuing to sell them when they KNEW they'd fail. Or not covering rollerization anyone any more.

No man sorry... I'm not buying the comparisons.

Other companies make mistakes, then they LEARN FROM THEM and THEY HANDLE IT.

It was just an example Kev, there are plenty more if you look throughout the industry. I wasn’t the one who bought up petrochemical issues!

Look, there is a lot of shit that’s happened. I’m more than happy to acknowledge that. But I’m not willing to say that Guzzi is alone on that score. I also expect people to take just a modicum of responsibility for their actions! How often on this board do we have people who buy bikes seemingly on a whim and then, if they have a problem, and don’t forget in the eoverall scheme of things the current crop are pretty damn good, they start wingeing that their nearest dealer is 200 miles away!

I dunno. What are you doing end of July? We’ll be back on the East Coast then, we can rant at each other over beer!:D

Pete

[Kev m]

I dunno. What are you doing end of July? We�ll be back on the East Coast then, we can rant at each other over beer!:D

Ha ha, probably the usual (whatever my wife tells me lol).

Jenn doesn't have her schedule yet for July-Sept, but you guys are always welcome here or let me know where you'll be and maybe I can show up.

Don't get me wrong my friend, I love Guzzi and I want them to grow/develop. But man buying a new one seems like rolling the dice more than ever.

[pete roper]

On that we can agree.

[timonbik]

Guzzi seems to be where HD was 25 years ago.  When you buy the bike the first thing you have to do is take it apart, go over it, reprogram it to make it run right.  Well, when I pay upwards of $20,000 for a bike, I think you should be able to ride away from the dealership with the confidence that what you bought will serve you problem free for a reasonable period of time.  One should not have to wait until a swing arm bearing fails causing loss of control with some poor smuck dying in the process causing the NHTSA to force the manufacturer to put out a recall.  GM did that with the ignition switches and look where it got them.  Lawsuits are still ongoing.

Tim

[Ncdan]

 Bottom line for me can best be put like this: A guzzi is like being married to a beautiful gal that cooks, cleans and is great in the sack however has a great big wart on her........NOSE, lol, I crack me up sometimes 😂
Thanks again Pete for for the �heads up� on the swing arm bearing issue and sorry for the bitching fit but it is tough on us non mechanical types who loves these bikes but does not have a dealer within “200” miles and even if we did could not afford the cost of unnecessary issues for low mileage bikes.
Anyway,  Pete’s assessment is spot on and not to put words in his mouth, if one can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen:)
Looking forward to sitting around a campfire and discussing these topics in person.

[Lannis]

Bottom line for me can best be put like this: A guzzi is like being married to a beautiful gal that cooks, cleans and is great in the sack however has a great big wart on her........NOSE, lol, I crack me up sometimes 😂

I look at a Guzzi more like being married to a beautiful gal that SOMETIMES cooks, cleans, etc but often is gone at night and you wonder where she is, and when she comes home she isn't interested in you for a week or so .....

Lannis

[Jimijoe]

Thanks Pete, you convinced me. I have a.cali 1400 touring, 2014 model year, almost 18,000 miles, tore into it today,  looks pretty dry, got to it before any damage was done. Your advice greatly appreciated

[pete roper]

Excellent! That’s all it was, advice. I didn’t realise it was going to start a raging sook-fest.

Any pics of what they looked like? So far I’ve seen a grand total of one! 

Pete

[lucian]

I'm going in,  . Jacked the rear and found unacceptable amount [ none] of pre load on swing arm pivot. stay tuned. have some pics tonight

[lucian]

As suspected , dry as a popcorn fart.  It took me 4 hrs start to finish. Lots of extraneous crap to remove but other than that a relatively straight forward job. The bearings have inner and outer seals that seem an improvement over previous carc bikes. The only "special" tool required is the castellated socket for the preload nut on the pivot shaft. I had made one for the griso out of a socket and it fit the cali also. I would not want to tackle this one without a lift table, would be a bear at ground level.  It was a good time to clean up a lot of fasteners and apply anti seize and grease where needed. Overall I am impressed with the fit and engineering that went into this motorcycle. Half the fun for me is doing all I an myself and sure appriciate all of you who have helped me along the way.  Happy trails all.

[et18]

Lucian, thanks for the extra effort to take pictures.  It takes dedication to wipe the grease off your hands every few minutes to take a picture.  I'm thinking about doing this soon as I have a pending rear tire change anyway in the next few weeks.  Two questions:

1.  How many miles on your bike?  Mine has about 9.4K and I'm wondering whether it's better to do it now or wait until the next tire change.  Lucky for us 1400 riders, we have the rear wheel off every 6000 miles or so.

2.  Did you have to replace or just repack the bearings?  I hate to get a machine apart then let it sit because I need parts.

One last thought after reading this entire thread:  There really is no excuse for dry bearings in almost new machines, but my BMW did need a swingarm pivot bearing after 30K, almost all of them do by 40~50K, so MG is not alone. 

[Ncdan]

As suspected , dry as a popcorn fart.  It took me 4 hrs start to finish. Lots of extraneous crap to remove but other than that a relatively straight forward job. The bearings have inner and outer seals that seem an improvement over previous carc bikes. The only "special" tool required is the castellated socket for the preload nut on the pivot shaft. I had made one for the griso out of a socket and it fit the cali also. I would not want to tackle this one without a lift table, would be a bear at ground level.  It was a good time to clean up a lot of fasteners and apply anti seize and grease where needed. Overall I am impressed with the fit and engineering that went into this motorcycle. Half the fun for me is doing all I an myself and sure appriciate all of you who have helped me along the way.  Happy trails all.

What size socket do you start with to make the special tool?

[lucian]

et18  Bike now has 19,000 miles. The bearings are in fine condition and only needed to be cleaned up and re packed. I am sure you could wait without worries. I would however check for any play in the swingarm with the  rear jacked up. Mine had noticeable free play which should not be there at all. Easy enough to tighten the pre load adjuster on the left side after removing the side cover and rear footpeg carrier and loosening the swing arm shaft pinch bolts.

Dan, I used a 30mm socket. I wraped the outside with painters tape and layed out the notches and then used a cuttoff wheel in a hand grinder to remove the material. If you look at the picture close you can see the cuts correspond perfectly with the points inside the socket.

[drbone641]

Just had my 1400 looked at while putting on new rubber for the Pirsig trip next week. They called me because they said its not something they usually look at and had called the Guzzi rep who told them it was a waste of time. Told them to do it anyway. The grease load was good, but knowing is better.

[John A]

that's the problem, you don't know unless you look. there's probly one guy at the factory that doesn't use grease so his production numbers are high. how can quality control educate someone like that where its hidden that he doesn't grease them?

[pete roper]

Just had my 1400 looked at while putting on new rubber for the Pirsig trip next week. They called me because they said its not something they usually look at and had called the Guzzi rep who told them it was a waste of time. Told them to do it anyway. The grease load was good, but knowing is better.

Given my experience I�d like to know what they considered �Good�? You didn�t get pics by any chance did you? I fear that many �Technicians� nowadays are probably clueless about how much grease a bearing should have much less how to pack one properly! Because of their outer seal the design Guzzi use in this application need a bit of special *Attention* as getting the grease in to the inner race can only be done from the pointy end!

[John A]

I have seen "technicians" like that too. I wonder about the tech rep too who told them it was a waste of time. Is that because he knows it'll make it through the warranty period or he cant believe there is such shoddy work done at the factory?

[Ncdan]

Just had my 1400 looked at while putting on new rubber for the Pirsig trip next week. They called me because they said its not something they usually look at and had called the Guzzi rep who told them it was a waste of time. Told them to do it anyway. The grease load was good, but knowing is better.

Doc, I talked to the guzzi dealer in the NC Friday in person about the issue and ask her if the bike was still under warranty would the dealership check the swingarm bearings due to the issue there have been documented cases of little to no grease during assembly at the factory, when a tire change was being preformed. I was advised at my expense. I ask what if the bearings failed after the warranty was expired, documenting I had requested it be checked. She advised the rep woukd have to make that decision. I’m checking mine during my first tire change and to hell with it. I’m one of those folks that if something can possibly happen that bad, it will:(

[LowRyter]

I am curious how Pete communicates to the factory regarding assembly issues and attendant failures.

What are the communications channels?  Is there a direct line of communication to the Italy or through local reps?  Is there feedback, initial instructions?

We've seen dry bearings, worn valve gear, electronic glitches, etc.

[pete roper]

I am curious how Pete communicates to the factory regarding assembly issues and attendant failures.

What are the communications channels?  Is there a direct line of communication to the Italy or through local reps?  Is there feedback, initial instructions?

We've seen dry bearings, worn valve gear, electronic glitches, etc.

Jon, I'm no longer even remotely connected to Moto Guzzi Piaggio in any way. I gave up my service agency when the new importer took over as I had no faith in them either doing a good job or treating me as anything other than a resource to exploit. I was right on both counts. I'm glad to be out of it.

As for communicating with the factory? Forget it. They aren't interested in hearing about problems, they just want to sell units.

Pete

[kingoffleece]

Well, I think Pete and kev should meet me in Niagara Falls.  We can all have beer and if it gets heated they can throw each other over The Falls!   

[Kev m]

Well, I think Pete and kev should meet me in Niagara Falls.  We can all have beer and if it gets heated they can throw each other over The Falls!   

Pete and I always have a very pleasant visit. I don't recall any one ever being heated.

[pete roper]

Certainly not! Why is it some people think that any little disagreement is an invitation to meth fueled cage-fighting? The world would be really shit-boring if we all agreed with one another!

Anyway, if we’re going to fight I’d want it to be something dramatic like the final battle at the Riechenbach falls rather some tawdry punch-up at Niagara! I’m sure they’re ten a penny!

Pete

[lucian]

It's odd that the manual calls for inspection of steering head bearings / freeplay at every interval, but doesn't even mention swing arm bearings/ freeplay at any interval. I would say depending on how much rain or dirt you ride in they should be checked at least every 25,000 miles.

And Roper at large in the US.  I knew that whole border security thing was a bunch of bull.

[LowRyter]

Jon, I'm no longer even remotely connected to Moto Guzzi Piaggio in any way. I gave up my service agency when the new importer took over as I had no faith in them either doing a good job or treating me as anything other than a resource to exploit. I was right on both counts. I'm glad to be out of it.

As for communicating with the factory? Forget it. They aren't interested in hearing about problems, they just want to sell units.

Pete

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