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Author Topic: High ouput rotor/stator/rectifier kit to work on the V11 Sport?  (Read 2329 times)
andrewdonald1
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« on: February 17, 2009, 01:09:16 AM »
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Can we modify this high output rotor/stator/rectifier kit to work on the V11 Sport??

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/moto-guzzi-high-output-charging-system--stator-rectifier-rotor.html
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 02:10:24 AM »
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The two things I want to improve on my LeMans is more gas capacity & more electrical power. I'm working on the gas capacity and that will occur by Spring. Cheesy As for power I don't think this will work without some serious machining on the crank but I could be wrong. Huh Somebody with more knowledge please feel free to chime in.


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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 04:53:08 AM »
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That looks like the EnduroLast converstion kit for the old Bosch altenators on round head Tontis. It is basicly the same gear as fitted to the more modern Tonti framed bikes and V11s like yours.  With the older bikes the chraging set up only produced 280 watts


http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=61
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 06:15:19 AM »
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NO. The end of the crank is different. Also, your system is 350 watts, FWIW.

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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 08:35:38 AM »
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NO. The end of the crank is different. Also, your system is 350 watts, FWIW.

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John Henry

Can these parts be modified to fit onto the crank?  Ie. Fill in the ends of the rotor with welder (where it mounts to the crank) and remachine to fit our crank?
Just an example but I am trying to think outside the box.
What exactly is different that is holding it back from working?
I have access to a machine shop etc.

This is exactly why I want to go up a bit to 450 watts.  That extra 100 watts in my case would be nice.

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 08:40:22 AM »
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NO. The end of the crank is different. Also, your system is 350 watts, FWIW.

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John Henry

Can these parts be modified to fit onto the crank?  Ie. Fill in the ends of the rotor with welder (where it mounts to the crank) and remachine to fit our crank?
Just an example but I am trying to think outside the box.
What exactly is different that is holding it back from working?
I have access to a machine shop etc.

This is exactly why I want to go up a bit to 450 watts.  That extra 100 watts in my case would be nice.


I believe Joe Kenny made the parts for this to work on the Guzzi. Maybe you need to talk to him.
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 08:44:55 AM »
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NO. The end of the crank is different. Also, your system is 350 watts, FWIW.

Zoom Zoom,
John Henry

Can these parts be modified to fit onto the crank?  Ie. Fill in the ends of the rotor with welder (where it mounts to the crank) and remachine to fit our crank?
Just an example but I am trying to think outside the box.
What exactly is different that is holding it back from working?
I have access to a machine shop etc.

This is exactly why I want to go up a bit to 450 watts.  That extra 100 watts in my case would be nice.


I believe Joe Kenny made the parts for this to work on the Guzzi. Maybe you need to talk to him.

Alright now I am hearing some positive thoughts! 

I can't believe that the talent on this board has not figured out a way yet.

I just haven't been in the Guzzi thing long enough to have seen exactly the differences and don't want to spend $500 for the parts until I hear some more experience on the matter.

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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 08:52:29 AM »
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Joe Kenny is a machinist with a shop in Floyd Virginia. He does a lot of custom contract work for small manufactures. This was one of them.

Dean
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 08:58:42 AM »
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That is the same Ducati alternator your v11 Sport already has.
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 09:54:02 AM »
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That is the same Ducati alternator your v11 Sport already has.

Do you mean the short cut that I posted?  If so, I believe this one is 450 watts. 

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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 10:38:15 AM »
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 Gosh, what are you planning on running electrically on your bike? I've never been lack of accessory power.
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 10:43:29 AM »
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That is the same Ducati alternator your v11 Sport already has.

Do you mean the short cut that I posted?  If so, I believe this one is 450 watts. 


You are going to take your 30 amp system and upgrade it to a 30 amp system.
Wow, that is sure to have some benefits.  Roll Eyes

What you are looking at is the system that you already have, same thing. It has been adapted to fit on the older style crank nose. Then people with the older Bosch system can upgrade to the Ducati system LIKE YOU HAVE NOW!

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 10:54:55 AM »
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It may say 450 watts. It's the same alternator as on your bike, and it puts out, on a good day, 30 amps. When your lights are on and the engine is running, it can barely hold 13 volts. If it was putting out 30 amps at 13 volts, it would be putting out 390 watts. I'm guessing it barely makes the 350 watts it's rated for.
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 11:22:38 AM »
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Alright.. remember I am new to Guzzi.

I saw 450 watts and my understanding is ours is rated at 350 watts.

So no other choices?  Greg was telling me a little bit about an option that you would have to change out the crank.  Other than that... no options?

Moving up from the Widder vest (35 watts) to the Gerbing Jacket Liner I think is putting me on the edge when running the Oxford Heated Grips.

I did a rough estimate of the watts consumed (with a few guess' from head light down), assuming what's putting me on the edge is during low RPM operation.

                         watts
Oxford hot grips           48
Gerbing Jacket           77
Head light                   55
Misc tail lights (All LED)   20
Ignition                    10
Fuel Pump                   30
Misc Dash Lights           20

Total  260 Watts.


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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 12:05:27 PM »
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I have been riding home from work all winter with an electric vest, heated grips, and driving lights. I have not had to use a charger.

1. Add a voltmeter.
2. At stops I may use the low grip setting.
3. Add a voltmeter.
4. I turn the vest down (not off) when stopped.
5. Add a voltmeter.
6. I added one of my driving light controllers to the driving lights to auto dim them at stops.
7. Add a voltmeter.

I swapped a few times between the Centauro and the EV this winter. They both have the same charging system as yours and dual 35 watt driving lights. But no heated grips on the Centauro. No issues with a vest and driving lights on. This is on residential roads, multiple school zones, many stops. The RPM seldom go to 4K where the charging system puts out about the max.

I helped AtlantaGuzzi replace a regulator/rectifier last fall (same Ducati system). It turns out that he had a bad diode. So he was only getting half output, 15 amps, not the 30 amps. He would occasionally even us an electric vest (no grips). While he knew something was very wrong (he had a voltmeter), and he had to us a charger on it often he wasn't calling a tow truck all the time either.
My point is, I think your math is overly pessimistic. Remove the 20 watts for the dash, and the 20 watt taillight LEDs are wrong. The 48 watt grips and 77 watt vest are at what voltage? Those may be max ratings at 14.5 volts, that may be closer to 40 and 65 watts in real life.

BTW, I did some testing using a shunt and an oscilloscope. This system puts out 30 amps. If you short it out, it is 30 amps at zero volts. Hook it to a very health battery and it is 30 amps at 14 volts (well, 13.9 was actually as high as it would go). So, using wattage terms is misleading when it is a fixed 30 amps.

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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 12:56:01 PM »
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Is there any decent small LCD voltmeters around that fit the V11 Sport without standing out like a sore thumb?
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2009, 02:17:10 PM »
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Alright.. remember I am new to Guzzi.

I saw 450 watts and my understanding is ours is rated at 350 watts.

So no other choices?  Greg was telling me a little bit about an option that you would have to change out the crank.  Other than that... no options?

Moving up from the Widder vest (35 watts) to the Gerbing Jacket Liner I think is putting me on the edge when running the Oxford Heated Grips.

I did a rough estimate of the watts consumed (with a few guess' from head light down), assuming what's putting me on the edge is during low RPM operation.

                         watts
Oxford hot grips           48
Gerbing Jacket           77
Head light                   55
Misc tail lights (All LED)   20
Ignition                    10
Fuel Pump                   30
Misc Dash Lights           20

Total  260 Watts.




Assuming the alternator will put out 450w, it is going to do that at about 10,000 rpm.  Do you plan to run the bike that hard on a routine basis?

This power is not free.  It will nick your engine power some to give the higher wattage.

The nose of an early big bock crank is tapered and is designed for timing gears.  The nose of the later big block is not tapered and is designed for a timing chain.


I'd advise dumping the girly-man heated crap and going to LED bulbs where possible if you're worried about your current charging system.  Maybe dump the stereo and latte machine, too.

I can't believe that the talent on this board has not figured out a way yet.

This problem has been solved a good number of ways, just not your way.  There are reasons for that.  As GF points out, there's not enough improvement on paper to make the practical exercise worthwhile.

If you want to try something with some potential (pun intended), how about getting a few Faraday Coils and experiment with them?  We'd all be interested in finding some truly free power . . . .
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2009, 02:20:12 PM »
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My old T5 shows low charging at idle when everything is turned on.  The battery idiot light comes on too.  I usually just hold the throttle a little till the light goes out.  If it really bugs you then you could add in an extra throttle stop for cold weather when you're using the heat stuff.

If you wanted something that doesn't stand out a warning light might be for you.

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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2009, 02:40:08 PM »
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Is there any decent small LCD voltmeters around that fit the V11 Sport without standing out like a sore thumb?

Wayne probably has some new invention down there in his garage, that acts like a voltmeter and projects a warning light into your eye from your speedometer.
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2009, 02:54:23 PM »
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Is there any decent small LCD voltmeters around that fit the V11 Sport without standing out like a sore thumb?

Wayne probably has some new invention down there in his garage, that acts like a voltmeter and projects a warning light into your eye from your speedometer.

Wayne's site is indeed 'chock plum full' of useful items.

http://ftp.pwp.att.net/w/a/wayneorwig/
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2009, 02:57:06 PM »
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Alright.. remember I am new to Guzzi.

I saw 450 watts and my understanding is ours is rated at 350 watts.

So no other choices?  Greg was telling me a little bit about an option that you would have to change out the crank.  Other than that... no options?

Moving up from the Widder vest (35 watts) to the Gerbing Jacket Liner I think is putting me on the edge when running the Oxford Heated Grips.

I did a rough estimate of the watts consumed (with a few guess' from head light down), assuming what's putting me on the edge is during low RPM operation.

                         watts
Oxford hot grips           48
Gerbing Jacket           77
Head light                   55
Misc tail lights (All LED)   20
Ignition                    10
Fuel Pump                   30
Misc Dash Lights           20

Total  260 Watts.




Assuming the alternator will put out 450w, it is going to do that at about 10,000 rpm.  Do you plan to run the bike that hard on a routine basis?

This power is not free.  It will nick your engine power some to give the higher wattage.

The nose of an early big bock crank is tapered and is designed for timing gears.  The nose of the later big block is not tapered and is designed for a timing chain.


I'd advise dumping the girly-man heated crap and going to LED bulbs where possible if you're worried about your current charging system.  Maybe dump the stereo and latte machine, too.

I can't believe that the talent on this board has not figured out a way yet.

This problem has been solved a good number of ways, just not your way.  There are reasons for that.  As GF points out, there's not enough improvement on paper to make the practical exercise worthwhile.

If you want to try something with some potential (pun intended), how about getting a few Faraday Coils and experiment with them?  We'd all be interested in finding some truly free power . . . .

I can't go back without the electrics.  It just makes life soo much nicer.   
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2009, 03:17:44 PM »
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Alright.. remember I am new to Guzzi.

I saw 450 watts and my understanding is ours is rated at 350 watts.

So no other choices?  Greg was telling me a little bit about an option that you would have to change out the crank.  Other than that... no options?

Moving up from the Widder vest (35 watts) to the Gerbing Jacket Liner I think is putting me on the edge when running the Oxford Heated Grips.

I did a rough estimate of the watts consumed (with a few guess' from head light down), assuming what's putting me on the edge is during low RPM operation.

                         watts
Oxford hot grips           48
Gerbing Jacket           77
Head light                   55
Misc tail lights (All LED)   20
Ignition                    10
Fuel Pump                   30
Misc Dash Lights           20

Total  260 Watts.




Assuming the alternator will put out 450w, it is going to do that at about 10,000 rpm.  Do you plan to run the bike that hard on a routine basis?

This power is not free.  It will nick your engine power some to give the higher wattage.

The nose of an early big bock crank is tapered and is designed for timing gears.  The nose of the later big block is not tapered and is designed for a timing chain.


I'd advise dumping the girly-man heated crap and going to LED bulbs where possible if you're worried about your current charging system.  Maybe dump the stereo and latte machine, too.

I can't believe that the talent on this board has not figured out a way yet.

This problem has been solved a good number of ways, just not your way.  There are reasons for that.  As GF points out, there's not enough improvement on paper to make the practical exercise worthwhile.

If you want to try something with some potential (pun intended), how about getting a few Faraday Coils and experiment with them?  We'd all be interested in finding some truly free power . . . .

I can't go back without the electrics.  It just makes life soo much nicer.   

and you don't have to.

Those values you list for the vest and grips are numbers calculated in a true worst case scenario.
Construct a couple PWM's using the schematics found at Wayne's site and for <$10 you'll have near infinite temperature control and likely be operating in the lower 1/3 of those ratings.

I use heated grips OR Widder heated gloves and a Widder heated vest with arm chaps in temps as low as they get here in Nebraska.
I added the voltmeter shown below and seldom see both green LEDs go out except at idle with everything on.



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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2009, 03:27:45 PM »
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Alright.. remember I am new to Guzzi.

I saw 450 watts and my understanding is ours is rated at 350 watts.

So no other choices?  Greg was telling me a little bit about an option that you would have to change out the crank.  Other than that... no options?

Moving up from the Widder vest (35 watts) to the Gerbing Jacket Liner I think is putting me on the edge when running the Oxford Heated Grips.

I did a rough estimate of the watts consumed (with a few guess' from head light down), assuming what's putting me on the edge is during low RPM operation.

                         watts
Oxford hot grips           48
Gerbing Jacket           77
Head light                   55
Misc tail lights (All LED)   20
Ignition                    10
Fuel Pump                   30
Misc Dash Lights           20

Total  260 Watts.




Assuming the alternator will put out 450w, it is going to do that at about 10,000 rpm.  Do you plan to run the bike that hard on a routine basis?

This power is not free.  It will nick your engine power some to give the higher wattage.

The nose of an early big bock crank is tapered and is designed for timing gears.  The nose of the later big block is not tapered and is designed for a timing chain.


I'd advise dumping the girly-man heated crap and going to LED bulbs where possible if you're worried about your current charging system.  Maybe dump the stereo and latte machine, too.

I can't believe that the talent on this board has not figured out a way yet.

This problem has been solved a good number of ways, just not your way.  There are reasons for that.  As GF points out, there's not enough improvement on paper to make the practical exercise worthwhile.

If you want to try something with some potential (pun intended), how about getting a few Faraday Coils and experiment with them?  We'd all be interested in finding some truly free power . . . .

I can't go back without the electrics.  It just makes life soo much nicer.   

and you don't have to.

Those values you list for the vest and grips are numbers calculated in a true worst case scenario.
Construct a couple PWM's using the schematics found at Wayne's site and for <$10 you'll have near infinite temperature control and likely be operating in the lower 1/3 of those ratings.

I use heated grips OR Widder heated gloves and a Widder heated vest with arm chaps in temps as low as they get here in Nebraska.
I added the voltmeter shown below and seldom see both green LEDs go out except at idle with everything on.




How do you like the Kuryakyn volt meter?  Where did you mount it?
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2009, 03:32:06 PM »
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Is there any decent small LCD voltmeters around that fit the V11 Sport without standing out like a sore thumb?

I have a LED voltage indicator from Signal Dynamics. All you see is the LED. See the link below. It is the second item.
http://www.customdynamics.com/LED_battery_gauge.htm#LED_Battery_Gauge_with_Remote_Flush_Panel_Mount_LED

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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2009, 03:45:40 PM »
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Is there any decent small LCD voltmeters around that fit the V11 Sport without standing out like a sore thumb?

I have a LED voltage indicator from Signal Dynamics. All you see is the LED. See the link below. It is the second item.
http://www.customdynamics.com/LED_battery_gauge.htm#LED_Battery_Gauge_with_Remote_Flush_Panel_Mount_LED



How do you like this little guy?
Does it stay on even when the bike is turned off (i.e. is there a constant power draw?)?
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2009, 04:16:45 PM »
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How do you like the Kuryakyn volt meter?  Where did you mount it?

Like it real well.

Stuck it to the back side of the front brake master cylinder.
Similar to this pic

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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2009, 05:05:31 PM »
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I have everything on my Sport optimised and run through relays to minimize electrical losses, yet if I crank up the grip heat and Gerbing's my voltmeter shows that I andefinitely in slight electrical deficit. There was one choice left to me, and it works only during the day: I have the European light switch that allows me to switch the headlight off in favor of the 5w parking light. It really is all that works, short of turning down the power on your electrics.
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2009, 06:46:30 PM »
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What Greg Field said +1.
'02 EV.
I often ride in 20F with Gebring jacket liner, gloves and socks with controller. First time out with electric clothes the tach died after about an hour. Then sitting at a stoplight motor died. no juice. Got a jump and disconnected the electric clothes and all OK.
Since: added digital voltmeter to handle bars with toggle switch.
Installed Euro headlight switch. Tombstone LED taillight and turn signals.Relays to horn and headlight. All wired to battery.
Original Yuasa battery.
@ 4000 RPM voltmeter reads 14.03 volts.
On a long highway ride voltage will slowly drop to below 12 volts with all electric clothes on fullpower, headlight on. Switch off headlight to parking lamp and it buys you more time. Voltmeter really helps when you get into stop and go traffic. You know when to start turning stuff off and rev above 2500 RPM.
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2009, 10:06:10 PM »
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On a long highway ride voltage will slowly drop to below 12 volts with all electric clothes on fullpower, headlight on.

How many watts is you electrics?
My three systems with the Ducati alternator can run a Widder vest AND the 35 watt driving lights on the highway and keep in balance (just).
My vest may be a lower wattage.
 
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2009, 08:24:50 AM »
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Hi Wayne.
Jacket liner 77 watts
Gloves       22
Socks        22
Pants        44
Also have Signal Minder to run turn signals as running lights.
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Cleveland Steve  '02 EV
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Wayne Orwig
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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2009, 10:42:25 AM »
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Hi Wayne.
Jacket liner 77 watts
Gloves       22
Socks        22
Pants        44
Also have Signal Minder to run turn signals as running lights.

OK, you are using a lot more stuff.
Just for grin last night on the way home I turned my vest on high (vest only ~70 watt), grips on high and driving lights. I kept the RPM down to UNDER 3500 and the charge was OK. The first light I stopped, the voltage took a couple of miles to come back. I of course comes back quicker with higher revs.



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twhitaker
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« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2009, 12:45:50 PM »
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I just bought a "Heads Up Voltage Monitor" for my LeMans from Signal Dynamics for $25. It's the one with the single flush mounted LED. The processor is half again larger than a Zippo lighter and the LED is small enough to mount in the plastic shroud between the gas tank and the triple tree.

http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/Modules/HUVM.asp
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'96 California 1100i 134,000 mi
'97 Centauro yellow 24,000 mi
'02 Champagne V11 LeMans 51,000 mi
MGNOC-11168
Dayton, OH

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« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2009, 09:41:17 PM »
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I know I'll end up putting on a voltage gauge. 

But damn I want more juice. 

I may have to buy a Stelvio and trade in the V11 Sport.  That's about $10K extra for about 200 watts. 
I don't even want to think what the $ / watt is for that!
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Greg Field
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2009, 10:13:54 PM »
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Strap a big car battery onto the luggage rack. That'd power any accessories you'd likely need for a long day's ride. Or get a Stelvio. Life is short . . .
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andrewdonald1
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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2009, 10:51:20 PM »
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After doing some research on the BMW R1100GS thru 1200GS models (actually I really am thinking of an old R80G/S), I think MG has a winner in the Stelvio IF people are looking for basic reliable adventure bike.

I really really like the GS, but dang I couldn't drop down that much coin and constantly worry if I am going to break down.
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