1000SP Sidestand upgrade?

[Guest]

[Lannis]

From what I can tell, this useless, horrible abortion is what was supposed to pass for a sidestand on my '83 SP.



It's the most ... well, it's pretty bad.

Is there a bolt on solution that will at least provide a decent sidestand like was on my Centauro, with a reasonable foot and a toe loop to deploy it?

I have a set of footboard lower rails with the massive, lovely "police" sidestand, but I don't want footboards, I want the current pegs with a decent sidestand.

Is there an aftermarket or junkyard solution?

Thanks!

Lannis

[Greg Field]

The stand from a LM 100o can be fitted, with minor futzing, which moves it back under the trans.

[Lannis]

One man's "minor" is another man's Bridgeport mill and TIG welder.    What does it bolt to back there?    And can the stands be bought or are they junkyard items?

Thanks!

Lannis

[Greg Field]

It bolts to the trans crossbolt, from memory. They are, I thing, still available. By minor. I mean that depending on what you are comfortable with as a "pitch" on the bike on its sidestand, you may have to bend the bracket for more lean. I can check on availability tomorrow, but I belive I got a few last year for some Canadians (as a rule, the nicest, most polite folks on the face of this planet) who were interested in accomplishing what you are trying to accomplish.

[Lannis]

It bolts to the trans crossbolt, from memory. They are, I thing, still available. By minor. I mean that depending on what you are comfortable with as a "pitch" on the bike on its sidestand, you may have to bend the bracket for more lean. I can check on availability tomorrow, but I belive I got a few last year for some Canadians (as a rule, the nicest, most polite folks on the face of this planet) who were interested in accomplishing what you are trying to accomplish.

Canadians polite?  I doubt it, us US Americans are WAY more polite than those hockey-freak moose-chasers.  Now quit f@rting around and send me my sidestand, you need to be told twice or something?

Lannis 

[Greg Field]

Do you have a hockey-stick rack or a gun rack in the back window of your pick-up? That is the essential difference between US citizens and Canadian citizens . . .

[Lannis]

Do you have a hockey-stick rack or a gun rack in the back window of your pick-up? That is the essential difference between US citizens and Canadian citizens . . .

How do you drop an 8-point buck with a hockey stick?  Those Canucks are faster and tougher than I thought .... !

Lannis

[panhead]

I have the solution to all this, and my solution is the tits.     I will post tomorrow or over the weekend,  but for now I need to sleep off a good night at the pub.   

If I forget, remind me,   I have  the answer.

PH

[Lannis]

Well, I'll wait for it, but I suspect that your solution after a "wet evening" really WAS tits, and won't look so much like a sidestand in the morning ... !!

Lannis

[Morizzi]

Hi Lannis,

A couple of solutions.

1. The side stand from a Kawaska GPZ 750 (I think its this model) can be easily modified to fit a Guzzi. It is mounted back near the centre stand bolts. A new hole needs to be drilled in the plate there but then it will bolt on.

2. The side stand you have can be easily modified. A lever can be welded onto the existing side stand so that it bends up and slightly to the rear when the stand is up. This helps reaching it while sitting on the saddle.
The existing bracket that bolts through the engine mounting bolt can be modified or preferably replaced. Make another one basically the same shape but have it so that it reaches further back. How far depends on your leg length. 10-20mm will probably do it. This also moves the support point closer to the centre of mass of the bike.
The real trick is to move the spring attachment forward so that when the stand is lowered the line of the spring is "JUST" forward of the centre of the pivot pin. This means the stand will stay down but just. Any forward movement of the bike will allow it to rise on the spring.
If your legs are long enough then just modify the bracket you have by moving the spring attachment point forward and welding the longer lever on the stand.
The result is a stand you can lower from the saddle that will stay put as you rest the bike on it.
I've done this to my MK III and it makes the bike much more user friendly. Others I know have gone for the Kawasaki stand.

Hope this helps.

[NeilD]

It bolts to the trans crossbolt, from memory. They are, I thing, still available......

Just done this on my LMII... bought a new mount plate from Motomecca, so thats still available.. only thing I found was that if you want to keep the original breather pipe mount on the gearbox bolt, the bolt isnt quite long enough.. so either reroute the breather pipe, or what I did was cut down and rethread a V7 bolt..... I also fitted a slightly longer centerstand mounting bolt..  bike still in bits, so I've not tried it out yet, but seems a popular mod..

[panhead]

OK, Lannis, here is your side stand solution.   This all began when I was a child and learned:

There are two kinds of side stands in the world of older motorcycles - which means companies that have been around  longer than me.   (What the Asians have done or do is not of  interest to me personally.)

The world is divided into good side stands and side stands that are not so good.  Side stands came along a fair while after motorbikes were invented.     Trees were used before then.

But the good side stand came along in 1936 when Harley and the Davidson brothers introduced the improved “Jiffy Stand.”  This was the best side stand that ever was, and still is. Once you’ve used one, from 1936 until yesterday, you will know that it is good, and anything that does not copy it is not.

Then there are the not good side stands.  For example, BMW has, for decades used one of tons of not good side stand designs.  They sometimes need careful deployment or your bike will fall over.  They sometimes need you to place your bike in a particular position relative to the ground under or your bike will fall over.  They sometimes will not allow you to park on softer ground or your bike will fall over.  They sometimes force you to park away from throngs of drunken revelers or your bike will fall over.  .  This is why the Sturgis rally is so Harley heavy.  That’s right, because of the Jiffy Stand. 

The not good side stands have even more problems.  Because of the piss poor design, they are sensitive to rear shock changes that alter, even by little bits, the standing height of the bike. Put on the ‘wrong’ shock and your bike will fall over. .   Finally, the not good designs are often not visible to the rider when deployed or up, which has led to lots of not good ride offs, where you will fall over. This in turn has led to ignition cut off’s and other mechanical complexities that occasionally result in power failure while underway.  So now we see that there is good,  and not good.

How does this relate to Moto Guzzi?  Well the answer is ,  both.  As in Moto Guzzis models sometimes have good stands and sometimes don’t.
From what I know, as Guzzi introduced the Tonti frame, they decided some of those would use a good side stand, so they copied, almost exactly, the 1936 Harley design.  In fact, the copy was so close that the Harley leg bracket, part # 50049-36 will fit on those Tonti frames happy enough to have a good side stand!

Now there is a Guzzi parts scrapper in Texas,  Larry, who sells a lot on eBay He sells a lot of good stands also.  So many, in fact, that he has given them his own name of   “big honkin stands”   I like that name and hence will use BHS when in reference to good Guzzi stands. 

Now if you have a Tonti, naturally, you want a BHS.  Believe me, my bikes frequently get intoxicated, but with a BHS or Jiffy Stand, never ever fall over.   But, as many Tonti’s did not come equipped with BHS you need to make your bike accept a BHS so that you and your bike will go on happily ever after.
You do this by finding a used left side rail with the BHS bracket and putting it on your unhappy bike.  If the BHS side rail has legs/tabs for footboards consider using them,   or, if you don’t like boards, cut the tabs off!   No big deal.  As long as you end up with a BHS you will be happy.

The picture below is of a BHS installed on my 1993 Strada. It deploys instantly, is as sure footed as an elephant, works in all situations, and never ever allows my bike to fall over. 

Don’t ya just love it when stories have a happy ending?  Note: This bike was parked under a gumball tree for illustration purposes only. 

[Greg Field]

How do you drop an 8-point buck with a hockey stick?  Those Canucks are faster and tougher than I thought .... !

Lannis

 

As Pan says, the H-D stand is the best ever designed. It was used on the Loops before it was used on the Tontis. It was used because Scotty Henderson, the LA cop Guzzi sent to Italy to help refine the cop bikes, was a Harley man and pointed out the stand's obvious merit.

[Amboman]

Saw a nice long sidestand on a LeMans this past Sunday, owner told me he thought it was a Harper-made item? Might check with them.

[Joe Matthews]

Did someone say "TITS"?    Where??? I don't see them...     

[Guzzi-Guy]

Do you have a hockey-stick rack or a gun rack in the back window of your pick-up? That is the essential difference between US citizens and Canadian citizens . . .

How do you drop an 8-point buck with a hockey stick?  Those Canucks are faster and tougher than I thought .... !

Lannis

It all boils down to the coffee we consume, anything is possible after 2 or 3 Large Double Double's from Tim Hortons.

Guy
A very polite Canadian

[centauro]

From what I can tell, this useless, horrible abortion is what was supposed to pass for a sidestand on my '83 SP.



It's the most ... well, it's pretty bad.

Is there a bolt on solution that will at least provide a decent sidestand like was on my Centauro, with a reasonable foot and a toe loop to deploy it?

I have a set of footboard lower rails with the massive, lovely "police" sidestand, but I don't want footboards, I want the current pegs with a decent sidestand.

Is there an aftermarket or junkyard solution?

Thanks!

Lannis

I changed my 83 SP to the LM3 sidestand, and it works GREAT from the seat. I bought mine from Agostini in Italy, and comes ready to install with bracket and springs attached. It mounts to the rear lower transmission mount bolt, which is just a little short; I removed the washers at both ends and it is long enough. You need to remove the mufflers and crossover to get access to the bolt, and jack up the bike, but it is, otherwise, a straight through bolt- on mod; no need to drill or weld anything.
Val in FL<diclass="msgbox">Noilesuploaded!</di>

[Jim King]

It bolts to the trans crossbolt, from memory. They are, I thing, still available......

Just done this on my LMII... bought a new mount plate from Motomecca, so thats still available.. only thing I found was that if you want to keep the original breather pipe mount on the gearbox bolt, the bolt isnt quite long enough.. so either reroute the breather pipe, or what I did was cut down and rethread a V7 bolt..... I also fitted a slightly longer centerstand mounting bolt..  bike still in bits, so I've not tried it out yet, but seems a popular mod..

Neil, hope you don't mind, I bumped up your image to get a better look at the mount plate. 
My son and I each have 1980 SPs and the stock side stands are true crap. 

[pehayes]

Lannis:  I don't think they are available any longer, but I got this stand from Astico Moto, London, UK.  It is a big, sturdy thing.  With the lower fairings in place on my SPII, it was still a bear to deploy and retract.  So I had a little bar welded to the stand and I fabricated a knob tip myself.  I clamped a piece of coat  hanger wire to the stand in order to mock up the length and angle of the rod I needed to have welded.  Works a treat!  At the least, you could use my extension idea for a modification of your existing stand.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[panhead]

Well Lannis, you were offered some interesting solutions here, inclulding of course mine.

So no mention of what you intend to do,  I see you have started an oil thread however.

I thought oil threads died off in spring when everyone can ride again.

[Lannis]

Sorry about that.  I got so many good solutions (along with all the great advice on my cutting-out-on-deceleration issue) that I'm still sorting them out.

Fact is, I HAVE a big honking sidestand sitting up on the shelf, as part of a matched set of Tonti footboard lower rails. 

I know they're just "things" but I have this deep antipathy to cutting up good parts that someone else might be able to use to convert from pegs to footboards. 

On the other hand, once my Cal III goes (whenever, I'm still working on it), I won't buy another footboard bike, so maybe the right thing to do is to just trim all the brackets off the left rail that's up on the shelf, mount it up with the huge lovely jiffy stand, and enjoy it.

On the other hand (wait, that's three, I see the problem ....)

I'll be back.

Lannis

[rjamesohio]

Would love to see pics of what Morizzi suggests.

The original SP sidestand is in fact a joke; the biggest problem I had was that you could not deploy it securely from the seat, and this was a situation begging for a disastrous ending.

I put the HD sidestand on mine. Very happy with it, easy to deploy from the saddle (which is a must), but I did have to perform surgery on the left lower (it is notched as marked in the photo on top of the primer), as well as weld the MG Cycle bracket onto the frame. Here are some photos of the during process and the final result. It works well and solved the original problem for me.

[panhead]

Now you're cooking !

[geodoc]

Do you have a hockey-stick rack or a gun rack in the back window of your pick-up? That is the essential difference between US citizens and Canadian citizens . . .

[geodoc]

I have had this 1000S side stand on my 850T for 4-5 years w/o problem. Easy bolt-on installation. If anybody wants one here are the p/n's:

(1) - 2843 2163, sidestand
(1) - 9810 5129, pivot bolt
(1) - 1442 3800, rubber
(2) - 1743 4060, spring
(1) - 2843 2760, spring retaining plate
(1) - 2843 4161, mounting plate

It bolts to the trans crossbolt, from memory. They are, I thing, still available......

Just done this on my LMII... bought a new mount plate from Motomecca, so thats still available.. only thing I found was that if you want to keep the original breather pipe mount on the gearbox bolt, the bolt isnt quite long enough.. so either reroute the breather pipe, or what I did was cut down and rethread a V7 bolt..... I also fitted a slightly longer centerstand mounting bolt..  bike still in bits, so I've not tried it out yet, but seems a popular mod..

[rjamesohio]

Geodoc -

How about a picture of how it looks in use?

Also - how easy is it to deploy from the seat? The HD sidestand is quite easy....

Rocket

[panhead]

Lannis - put the saw to that left frame rail, then grind off the stubs and send it to a powder coater along with the BHS.  (PM me b4 you cut !)

Do not worry about keeping old parts for posterity.  There are early Tonti's pulled apart every week for parts, and you could always buy another stock rail if you wanted. Many are sold on eBay every year.   Nothing replaces a Big Honkin Stand !

[Morizzi]

Would love to see pics of what Morizzi suggests.

The original SP sidestand is in fact a joke; the biggest problem I had was that you could not deploy it securely from the seat, and this was a situation begging for a disastrous ending.

So very true. I have a LM III of the same vintage. Not only couldn't it be deployed form the seat but it would spring up as you tried to get it down. After being on the bike for a few hours with full gear it was always a circus event to get one leg over the bike while holding and balancing on one foot.

Living in Australia we ride on the left side of the road so the short stand was even worse for us. When you park your bike it tends to lean into the road camber but for us the road is dropping away.

There were 2 stand threads running simultaneously. Sorry, I posted pics on the other one. The link to the thread is here:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=23636.0

I didn't do anything terribly radical. I just made a new bracket that bolts to the through bolt on the front of the engine. It is basically the same shape as the original but it is slightly thicker for strength and the pivot point is lower and further to the rear. The spring attachment point was moved forward so the line of spring tension was just forward of the pivot point when the stand was deployed holding it in place. It will flick back up if you try to ride off without pulling it up though. A piece of steel rod was bent and welded on to the leg so that I could reach it from the saddle.

Except for the extended lever the stand looks almost original. No cutting or modification to the rail was necessary. It sits in the original position and still comes up onto the stand stop on the frame.

There have been some very good solutions to this universal issue. Its interesting to see how we all overcame it.

Lannis has lots to choose from. 

[geodoc]

Geodoc -

How about a picture of how it looks in use?

Also - how easy is it to deploy from the seat? The HD sidestand is quite easy....

Rocket

Here is the stand installed on Bike 'A' & bike 'B':

I've added an 1/8" thick Delrin pad on the bottoms of both.