Will you ride when gas is $10/gal or more? NGC

[Guest]

[Lannis]

There was a life cycle study done comparing a Prius and a Hummer.  Environmentally the Prius was worse than the Hummer because of the mining of material for the batteries and their limited life, along with disposal issues with the batteries (even when recycled).


charlie

If my memory is correct, the person who conducted that study was a shill for the auto/oil industry.

Always easy to blame The Corporations, Big Oil, etc.   Faceless and don't live next door, or in your own bedroom.

The real problem, as stated several times by several people, is that the Americans that are paying the bills will not pay for the upfront cost of battery R&D, hydrogen generation and distribution, and all that.  Gas is too cheap, habits are hard to break, and we're spoiled.  Any corporation that tried to sell something good for the world right now would go broke before they could finish it.

Lannis

[blackcat]

There was a life cycle study done comparing a Prius and a Hummer.  Environmentally the Prius was worse than the Hummer because of the mining of material for the batteries and their limited life, along with disposal issues with the batteries (even when recycled).


charlie

If my memory is correct, the person who conducted that study was a shill for the auto/oil industry.

Always easy to blame The Corporations, Big Oil, etc.   Faceless and don't live next door, or in your own bedroom.

Lannis

I am only pointing out that the study was found to be suspect.

[charlie b]

May have been.  But, when I checked numbers he was quite close and the conclusion was valid.  Actually it is supported by CA rules about the mfg paying for certain battery replacements.  That study also did not take into account the ecological devastation by current battery mfg issues.

The test I liked the most was the race between a Prius and an Audi TT.  The Prius was driven on a race course with the Audi following at same speed.  Result was a Prius fuel mileage of 17mpg and Audi of 18mpg.  So, it wouldn't do me any good to buy a Prius for much of my in town driving.  

This is also supported by a class action lawsuit filed by a number of Prius owners about the low gas mileage they are getting.  Seems when you drive them hard their mileage 'sucks'.  Even worse than when I drive the wife's Mini (28mpg vs 38mpg at highway speeds).

I guess it is obvious that I dislike the current hybrids.  They are adequate for making people 'feel good' about 'being green', but, they do little to offset any of the issues.

charlie

[blackcat]

May have been.  But, when I checked numbers he was quite close and the conclusion was valid.  Actually it is supported by CA rules about the mfg paying for certain battery replacements.  That study also did not take into account the ecological devastation by current battery mfg issues.

The test I liked the most was the race between a Prius and an Audi TT.  The Prius was driven on a race course with the Audi following at same speed.  Result was a Prius fuel mileage of 17mpg and Audi of 18mpg.  So, it wouldn't do me any good to buy a Prius for much of my in town driving.  

This is also supported by a class action lawsuit filed by a number of Prius owners about the low gas mileage they are getting.  Seems when you drive them hard their mileage 'sucks'.  Even worse than when I drive the wife's Mini (28mpg vs 38mpg at highway speeds).

I guess it is obvious that I dislike the current hybrids.  They are adequate for making people 'feel good' about 'being green', but, they do little to offset any of the issues.

charlie

"Bengt Halvorson at The Car Connection has posted a critical look at the controversy over the total and complete environmental cost of hybrid vehicles. Yes, they do offer better fuel economy and lower overall emissions, but some critics and analysts say recycling and production costs--including the mining of materials needed for batteries--create an overall larger environmental footprint than a gas-guzzling Hummer.

Much of this debate falls back on a study from CNW Marketing Research that states hybrids use more energy in their lifetime than a large SUV. This dust-to-dust analysis has been blasted by an official at the Union of Concerned Scientists, saying the study was contradicted by MIT and other scientific communities. Toyota has also rejected the study, saying it doesn't reflect the data the automaker has compiled in its lifecycle analysis. "

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/04/17/the-car-connection-tackles-prius-vs-hummer-controversy/

Yes, we have a Prius and it regularly gets 40-43mpg in town with the a/c running. Over multiple trips it averages around 45mpg on the freeway running at 70 to 80mph. In 50 to 60 mph limited access roads it can and has gotten around 50 to 55mpg. 

[larryo]

My Hitlerian approach would solve a few of these problems:

Start vigorously profiling illegal aliens. Round them up into work camps, or give them a half hour head start south.  Pass a law making the children of non citizens born here also non citizens. (Works for Switzerland and other places.) Put the families in roving work camps.     Have the men and single women working on building  some more mass transit, in 8 hour shifts. Have the women and kids in mobile daycare and schools, learning English, American history, and other regular school curriculum. Also have apprenticeships for the industries created building the trains, etc..
 
Get people who are chronically on (generational) welfare to do the cooking, laundry, and other chores to support these work camps. They have a choice of either contributing, or getting off the roles. They will also have the schooling available to them.

Build high speed rail between cities, and  good city transit systems, all powered by electricity, or steam, and refurbish existing freight lines.  Power as much as possible by trash to electricity plants, solar, and hydro/wind power. While doing this, build a nationwide pipeline to deliver emergency water for irrigation, or firefighting. ( I understand that some illegals are quite adept at terracotta )

Run this system with 5 year internships, with full citizenship awaiting those families and individuals who chose to remain.  Those who tough it out will be proud to have earned their citizenship, while also providing one answer to America's energy puzzle: our shameful lack of mass transit. Those already here but on welfare may well discover that they LIKE having a function in society besides being a moocher.

Yeah, I know, it's tantamount to slavery

[Goose]

May have been.  But, when I checked numbers he was quite close and the conclusion was valid.  Actually it is supported by CA rules about the mfg paying for certain battery replacements.  That study also did not take into account the ecological devastation by current battery mfg issues.

The test I liked the most was the race between a Prius and an Audi TT.  The Prius was driven on a race course with the Audi following at same speed.  Result was a Prius fuel mileage of 17mpg and Audi of 18mpg.  So, it wouldn't do me any good to buy a Prius for much of my in town driving.  

This is also supported by a class action lawsuit filed by a number of Prius owners about the low gas mileage they are getting.  Seems when you drive them hard their mileage 'sucks'.  Even worse than when I drive the wife's Mini (28mpg vs 38mpg at highway speeds).

I guess it is obvious that I dislike the current hybrids.  They are adequate for making people 'feel good' about 'being green', but, they do little to offset any of the issues.

charlie

"Bengt Halvorson at The Car Connection has posted a critical look at the controversy over the total and complete environmental cost of hybrid vehicles. Yes, they do offer better fuel economy and lower overall emissions, but some critics and analysts say recycling and production costs--including the mining of materials needed for batteries--create an overall larger environmental footprint than a gas-guzzling Hummer.

Much of this debate falls back on a study from CNW Marketing Research that states hybrids use more energy in their lifetime than a large SUV. This dust-to-dust analysis has been blasted by an official at the Union of Concerned Scientists, saying the study was contradicted by MIT and other scientific communities. Toyota has also rejected the study, saying it doesn't reflect the data the automaker has compiled in its lifecycle analysis. "

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/04/17/the-car-connection-tackles-prius-vs-hummer-controversy/

Yes, we have a Prius and it regularly gets 40-43mpg in town with the a/c running. Over multiple trips it averages around 45mpg on the freeway running at 70 to 80mph. In 50 to 60 mph limited access roads it can and has gotten around 50 to 55mpg. 

Have you had your vehicle for 3 years yet? Let me know when the batteries get replaced.

[JJ]

larryo -

Nice......."Let the goose-stepping begin!!"

[Amboman]

I'll hopefully be riding my Polaris/Fuji diesel powered Buell Blast by then. Predicted fuel mileage is over 100mpg burning renewable biodiesel. I average approx. 10k miles a year, so I'd still only spend $1000 a year on fuel, much less of course if I "home brewed" my biodiesel.

This should be available for the new car buying public (not me, I'm happy with my $500 '70 MB 220D - 32 mpg) by then also: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/03/geneva-2009-volkswagen-reveals-polo-bluemotion-concept-87-g-km/

71 mpg (US).

[blackcat]

Have you had your vehicle for 3 years yet? Let me know when the batteries get replaced.
[/quote]

Going on 5 years old. I'll be sure to let you know when they get replaced

"There’s more than a few 1st gen Prius that are in the quarter million mile club, that are still running like trains, and there’s even a Gen 1 Prius taxi in Victoria B.C. that’s over 300,000 with no battery related problems. And just in case you’re interested, the record is over 400,000 miles for a Prius.

So really, the batteries in a hybrid are a pretty strong link in the chain. The stuff that will wear out is the stuff that has always worn out, things like head gaskets and transaxels and tires and brakes and whatnot."

http://www.automoblog.net/2008/12/31/dont-worry-about-your-prius-batteries/

[joeguzzi]

To answer the question. YES!!!!!
However it looks like Isreal is on the best path to go electric with current available battery.
They are looking at electric cars that can be recharged or can swap the battery pack in minutes. They propose battery replacement stations much the same as gas filling stations.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/22/israel_electric_car_project/
Seems like a good idea.

Joe in Atlanta
1972 Eldorado
2004 Ballabio

[zzrider]

  How much oil burning is done in the name of leaving your suburban home and wallowing for hours in peak traffic just to sit behind a PC and phone at a different location?  Lighting up mall parking lots at 3am? Idleing on the LA expressway, alone in your car, with 100,000 others that work within 20 blocks of each other?

Reducing demand is paramount if we are to extend our current oil-based culture.  So far we are just scratching the surface on that front. The cost of a finite resource should  encompass not only the environmental aspects but also the development of long-term replacement options. Otherwise we are just living on "free capital" with no regard to future generations.

[sbaker]

YES!

[GreatNorthRider]

If gas goes to $20 per gallon, I'll definitely NOT be vacationing in my motorhome!! (unless it is camping in the back yard!)   I would also have to seriously think about my 200 mile per week commute to work!

As for riding, I would reduce how much "fun" riding I do in any given season, and would try up up my commuting via 2 wheels. I think I would also think about a small displacement scooter for getting around. (An extra 10 minutes drive time vs 90 mpg....)

I just ordered the "Alcohol" book and still plan, as I have been thinking of how I can do more with sustainability on our farm. If I can produce fuel on the farm and thus reduce crop inputs, it may be just the thing! Gotta figure out a way to make farming pay ME!  

[Muzz]

I have just hit my calculator buttons and turning our price per litre in to US gallons and our sinking NZ dollar and consulting the met forecast for the next 24 hours,  I have come to the conclusion that we are currently paying more than $10US for a US gallon.

I will continue riding (as soon as my gears come from Italy in a months time )

[Catimann]

Quotes and my replies.

"Gas is too cheap.  No motivation for building electric cars."
I disagree, look at all the EV's or hybrids out there.  How about this site: http://xprizecars.com/

"Supply and demand... economics 101"
Try and find parts or supplies for a typewriter.  Yes the price goes down but when it reaches unobtanium $10/gal will be cheap.  You will have it shipped to you in 50 gal drums from some refinery for those who just have to have those old cars running.

"come to think of it yeah, cause my familys been makin shine since before the war for soutern indipendence!"
Ok please send me a how to link or a recipe or something, even a bottle! LOL  Ok I see further on here that there are some links

"I also add acetone to my gas and diesel engines-been doing it for 15+ years on all vehicles-better mileage,cleaner engines and injectors,carbs,valves,etc."
I am so glad I started this topic.  More ideas and links for a years worth of . . .  How much acetone do you add?

As for the original question, yes you will hear both my Guzzi and my DB2 for a long time to come.  The sound of those sweet engines is just to good to leave in a garage.

Thanks for great feed back. 

[Goose]

Have you had your vehicle for 3 years yet? Let me know when the batteries get replaced.

Going on 5 years old. I'll be sure to let you know when they get replaced

"There’s more than a few 1st gen Prius that are in the quarter million mile club, that are still running like trains, and there’s even a Gen 1 Prius taxi in Victoria B.C. that’s over 300,000 with no battery related problems. And just in case you’re interested, the record is over 400,000 miles for a Prius.

So really, the batteries in a hybrid are a pretty strong link in the chain. The stuff that will wear out is the stuff that has always worn out, things like head gaskets and transaxels and tires and brakes and whatnot."

http://www.automoblog.net/2008/12/31/dont-worry-about-your-prius-batteries/[/quote]

Go into a dealership, talk to the service manager and ask how many batteries they have replaced. Out here in California one mechanic told me that they see 2-3 every week. I asked about longevity with the hybrids, he referred to it as job stability...

[blackcat]

Have you had your vehicle for 3 years yet? Let me know when the batteries get replaced.

Going on 5 years old. I'll be sure to let you know when they get replaced

"There’s more than a few 1st gen Prius that are in the quarter million mile club, that are still running like trains, and there’s even a Gen 1 Prius taxi in Victoria B.C. that’s over 300,000 with no battery related problems. And just in case you’re interested, the record is over 400,000 miles for a Prius.

So really, the batteries in a hybrid are a pretty strong link in the chain. The stuff that will wear out is the stuff that has always worn out, things like head gaskets and transaxels and tires and brakes and whatnot."

http://www.automoblog.net/2008/12/31/dont-worry-about-your-prius-batteries/

Go into a dealership, talk to the service manager and ask how many batteries they have replaced. Out here in California one mechanic told me that they see 2-3 every week. I asked about longevity with the hybrids, he referred to it as job stability...
[/quote]

If you believe that forums are a reliable source of information,please find where all these people are complaining about the replacement of their batteries.

http://priuschat.com/forums/

Sample:
"1. A warranty book came with the car & it is listed on the window sticker. The warranty is 8 years/100,000 miles. If from a CARB state it is 10 years/150,000 miles. MD is not a CARB state.

3. The few replacements I remember reading about were due to abuse. Forcing the car to run without gas will damage the battery.

4. Look for erratic behavoir. The state of charge should noticeably fluctuate as the cells don't hold a charge. MPG should drop as the ICE needs to run more often

5. Battery replacement is very uncommon. Hence little discussion. Cars have gone 200,000-300,000 miles on the original battery. Toyota has bought back some high mileage taxis. The common demise of high mileage cars is collision. "

This link addresses the myths:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/26050-prius-myths-their-rebuttals.html

[stormshearon]

The last time I was looking for a new car, I took a look at the Prius. I like the tech and the car drives well and since it is a hatchback, it fit into my new car criteria. But then I asked the dealer 'how much does it cost to replace the battery pack?' - because I figure to keep it till the wheels fall of if I buy it. He can't tell me. I repeat the same question to most of the Toyota dealers in the Seattle metro area and got the same response - they did not have an answer.

So I did not buy the Prius. Looked at Volkswagon TDI's, but none were to be found. Ended up with a  Mazda 3 hatchback. Great car.

As to the original question  -  I will keep riding the bike until they throw dirt in my face. I would like to see a cost effective replacement for petroleum products to run our industrial world on, but so far, no one has found one - yet. If the various government\industry entites that are trying to push one thing over another would get out of the way, I think we will get there sooner. Meanwhile, I am not holding my breath. Hydrogen suffers from energy density issues and infrastructure issues - like how to produce the hydrogen using less energy than you produce. Batteries have to be charged and recycled - and recycling them is not the least bit 'green', but is necessary. Bio fuels are not up to necessary commercial level\cost per gallon to replace oil.

[Goose]

Have you had your vehicle for 3 years yet? Let me know when the batteries get replaced.

Going on 5 years old. I'll be sure to let you know when they get replaced

"There’s more than a few 1st gen Prius that are in the quarter million mile club, that are still running like trains, and there’s even a Gen 1 Prius taxi in Victoria B.C. that’s over 300,000 with no battery related problems. And just in case you’re interested, the record is over 400,000 miles for a Prius.

So really, the batteries in a hybrid are a pretty strong link in the chain. The stuff that will wear out is the stuff that has always worn out, things like head gaskets and transaxels and tires and brakes and whatnot."

http://www.automoblog.net/2008/12/31/dont-worry-about-your-prius-batteries/

Go into a dealership, talk to the service manager and ask how many batteries they have replaced. Out here in California one mechanic told me that they see 2-3 every week. I asked about longevity with the hybrids, he referred to it as job stability...

If you believe that forums are a reliable source of information,please find where all these people are complaining about the replacement of their batteries.

http://priuschat.com/forums/

Sample:
"1. A warranty book came with the car & it is listed on the window sticker. The warranty is 8 years/100,000 miles. If from a CARB state it is 10 years/150,000 miles. MD is not a CARB state.

3. The few replacements I remember reading about were due to abuse. Forcing the car to run without gas will damage the battery.

4. Look for erratic behavoir. The state of charge should noticeably fluctuate as the cells don't hold a charge. MPG should drop as the ICE needs to run more often

5. Battery replacement is very uncommon. Hence little discussion. Cars have gone 200,000-300,000 miles on the original battery. Toyota has bought back some high mileage taxis. The common demise of high mileage cars is collision. "

This link addresses the myths:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/26050-prius-myths-their-rebuttals.html[/quote]

Who owns and edits the forum? The manufacturer?

[elvisboy77]

1.  Yes, I will still be riding when it is $10.
2.  I don't see batteries ever having the energy density of gasoline or diesel.  I see battery powered cars as a passing thing.
3.  The electric grid can't handle it anyway.

[Catimann]

Larryo    You do have an interesting point though.  Yours is a socialistic idea that takes a single minded direction and runs with it.  Many countries have great systems because of this (Autobahn, French rail)  The main problem with capitalisum today is that there are too many ideas and not enough push to get the best ones to the winners circle.  Back in the day things were simple so less prone to failure.  Today a new car has to meet so many standards there are too many things that can go wrong.  Just because the idea is good or better than another means nothing.  If you have a loosing advertisement idea and the other guy has a winner, his inferior product may well win out.
Between the people with money and the lobbyists the great ideas get squashed and the 'good for my region/company/friends" ideas get the money.  Look at biofuel.

"3.  The electric grid can't handle it anyway."  Read this: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html  May well  be the next ""wheel"" in terms of change, I sure hope this works.

[alanp]

Have you had your vehicle for 3 years yet? Let me know when the batteries get replaced.

Going on 5 years old. I'll be sure to let you know when they get replaced

"There’s more than a few 1st gen Prius that are in the quarter million mile club, that are still running like trains, and there’s even a Gen 1 Prius taxi in Victoria B.C. that’s over 300,000 with no battery related problems. And just in case you’re interested, the record is over 400,000 miles for a Prius.

So really, the batteries in a hybrid are a pretty strong link in the chain. The stuff that will wear out is the stuff that has always worn out, things like head gaskets and transaxels and tires and brakes and whatnot."

http://www.automoblog.net/2008/12/31/dont-worry-about-your-prius-batteries/

Go into a dealership, talk to the service manager and ask how many batteries they have replaced. Out here in California one mechanic told me that they see 2-3 every week. I asked about longevity with the hybrids, he referred to it as job stability...

If you believe that forums are a reliable source of information,please find where all these people are complaining about the replacement of their batteries.

http://priuschat.com/forums/

Sample:
"1. A warranty book came with the car & it is listed on the window sticker. The warranty is 8 years/100,000 miles. If from a CARB state it is 10 years/150,000 miles. MD is not a CARB state.

3. The few replacements I remember reading about were due to abuse. Forcing the car to run without gas will damage the battery.

4. Look for erratic behavoir. The state of charge should noticeably fluctuate as the cells don't hold a charge. MPG should drop as the ICE needs to run more often

5. Battery replacement is very uncommon. Hence little discussion. Cars have gone 200,000-300,000 miles on the original battery. Toyota has bought back some high mileage taxis. The common demise of high mileage cars is collision. "

This link addresses the myths:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/26050-prius-myths-their-rebuttals.html

Who owns and edits the forum? The manufacturer?


[/quote]

Why do people hate Prius's so much?  Its baffling. I spent about an hour today searching the web trying to find ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that Prius batteries are even remotely unreliable.  All I could find was item after item indicating that they last hundreds of thousands of miles and are almost completely without failure.  I found nothing, absolutely nothing, to the contrary.  Consumer Reports rates the Prius as one of the most reliable cars on the road.  Several sites rate the Prius at the absolute top in terms of owner satisfaction, unsurpassed, even by cars costing several times as much.  Several government websites report maintenace data on their fleets of hybrid cars, but I found not one single mention of a battery problem.  I also found several places where you can buy salvaged Prius batteries for a few hundred dollars, so even it did fail it would be a complete non-issue. 

What I really find strange is that people form such rock solid "you will never change my mind" opinions when they actually don't know anything about the subject at hand.  Open your minds a bit folks, you might learn something.   

[Redmond]

Forgot to mention I get my veggie oil free in my normal travels and make alcohol for free! I drove 150 miles and used 1 gallon diesel because I turned of the engine a few times. If I had let it run it would have been the 1/2 gallon cold start and warm up in the morning. So it cost me $2.44 total beat that anybody?

[SidecarMike]

Why do people hate Prius's so much?  Its baffling. I spent about an hour today searching the web trying to find ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that Prius batteries are even remotely unreliable.  All I could find was item after item indicating that they last hundreds of thousands of miles and are almost completely without failure.  I found nothing, absolutely nothing, to the contrary.  Consumer Reports rates the Prius as one of the most reliable cars on the road.  Several sites rate the Prius at the absolute top in terms of owner satisfaction, unsurpassed, even by cars costing several times as much.  Several government websites report maintenace data on their fleets of hybrid cars, but I found not one single mention of a battery problem.  I also found several places where you can buy salvaged Prius batteries for a few hundred dollars, so even it did fail it would be a complete non-issue. 

What I really find strange is that people form such rock solid "you will never change my mind" opinions when they actually don't know anything about the subject at hand.  Open your minds a bit folks, you might learn something.   

This has been covered here a number of times.  
I have never driven one, so my experience is only with acquaintances who owned them and the ones I see on the road.  I know three people who had them.  Had being the operative word.
1.  Bought it for his daughter to drive at college.  Sold it before the first school year was over.  She only drove it home on alternate weekends and garaged it during the rest of the time, across town from the campus.  Every time she went to use it the battery was dead.  The dealer's solution (and Toyota's!)was that the car needed to be driven at least every two to three days to keep the batteries up.  A 500 mile round trip  from Madison twice a month wasn't enough.  
2.  Bought it for a long distance commute, from Menomonie to a Minneapolis suburb.  Drove it about a month and hated it.  Said it had no power and frightened him driving it on the interstate.  Before it, he had an 02 Civic and now is driving one of those boxy Scion things, so I don't think he was expecting a rocket.
3.  I don't know number three very well.  This guy buys a new car every couple years.  Normally, his last one goes to the wife, hers goes to the son and the kid's goes away.  He bought it last August or Sept.  By January, he was driving a Malibu Flex/Fuel, but the Prius didn't trickle down.  It was gone.  I thought maybe it got totaled or something, but when I asked he just rolled his eyes and said "I got rid of that piece of sh*t".

My only other experience was about a month ago, traveling to the Twin Cities to install a sidecar.  I passed a blue one on an uphill grade.  As soon as it crested the hill, it came flying past me until the next grade when I passed it again.  Over the hill and here he came again.  This went on for nearly 60 miles before I turned off of I-94.

Like I said, I've never driven one, but I find it hard to believe that my only exposure to them has been to the exceptions to the rule.  
I'm glad there are people out there who are happy with them, but I doubt that I'll be buying one soon.

[charlie b]

I don't hate the Prius.  I just don't find it useful nor do I find hybrids a solution to the problem.

I would love to have an electric car that met my needs at a reasonable price.  None are here yet and the battery technology is not quite there yet.  However, they are not far away.  I figure within about 10 years I will be able to get what I want.

I would rather have a fuel cell car, but, I think the pricing and technology on those is even further away.

There is still the problem of electric generation.

Now, one idea I'd like to see is a steam turbine truck.  Burn just about anything and have good hauling capacity.

[guzzimike]

Prius are Ugly cars.

The only way they look good is if a Hot Chick is driving one....and I've yet to see one like that..

All the women I see driving Prius cars around here look like 1960's Hippy re-threads...IOW, they all look like Janis Joplin 

[alanp]

Why do people hate Prius's so much?  Its baffling. I spent about an hour today searching the web trying to find ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that Prius batteries are even remotely unreliable.  All I could find was item after item indicating that they last hundreds of thousands of miles and are almost completely without failure.  I found nothing, absolutely nothing, to the contrary.  Consumer Reports rates the Prius as one of the most reliable cars on the road.  Several sites rate the Prius at the absolute top in terms of owner satisfaction, unsurpassed, even by cars costing several times as much.  Several government websites report maintenace data on their fleets of hybrid cars, but I found not one single mention of a battery problem.  I also found several places where you can buy salvaged Prius batteries for a few hundred dollars, so even it did fail it would be a complete non-issue. 

What I really find strange is that people form such rock solid "you will never change my mind" opinions when they actually don't know anything about the subject at hand.  Open your minds a bit folks, you might learn something.   

This has been covered here a number of times.  
I have never driven one, so my experience is only with acquaintances who owned them and the ones I see on the road.  I know three people who had them.  Had being the operative word.
1.  Bought it for his daughter to drive at college.  Sold it before the first school year was over.  She only drove it home on alternate weekends and garaged it during the rest of the time, across town from the campus.  Every time she went to use it the battery was dead.  The dealer's solution (and Toyota's!)was that the car needed to be driven at least every two to three days to keep the batteries up.  A 500 mile round trip  from Madison twice a month wasn't enough.  
2.  Bought it for a long distance commute, from Menomonie to a Minneapolis suburb.  Drove it about a month and hated it.  Said it had no power and frightened him driving it on the interstate.  Before it, he had an 02 Civic and now is driving one of those boxy Scion things, so I don't think he was expecting a rocket.
3.  I don't know number three very well.  This guy buys a new car every couple years.  Normally, his last one goes to the wife, hers goes to the son and the kid's goes away.  He bought it last August or Sept.  By January, he was driving a Malibu Flex/Fuel, but the Prius didn't trickle down.  It was gone.  I thought maybe it got totaled or something, but when I asked he just rolled his eyes and said "I got rid of that piece of sh*t".

My only other experience was about a month ago, traveling to the Twin Cities to install a sidecar.  I passed a blue one on an uphill grade.  As soon as it crested the hill, it came flying past me until the next grade when I passed it again.  Over the hill and here he came again.  This went on for nearly 60 miles before I turned off of I-94.

Like I said, I've never driven one, but I find it hard to believe that my only exposure to them has been to the exceptions to the rule.  
I'm glad there are people out there who are happy with them, but I doubt that I'll be buying one soon.

Yes, that does seem very strange.  Your limited personal experiences seem to be quite an exceoption given this:

"For the fifth year in a row, the gas/electric Toyota Prius hybrid is the top car for owner satisfaction. That's the news from our latest Annual Car Owner Satisfaction Survey, conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center. Ninety-three percent of Prius owners who responded said they would definitely buy or lease one again. The Prius was closely followed by the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (92 percent) and the new Mini Cooper Clubman (91 percent)."

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/cr-recommended/would-you-buy-that-car-again-406/overview/

[jeff]

I own a Guzzi for its simplicity. Easy to work on, affordable to fix. My brief research in 2005 when we needed to replace our 15 year old Volvo 240 revealed the Prius is a great car, but expensive to repair. Most diagnosis had to be done at a dealer, not under the shade tree in the back yard.

Really tempted by the fuel economy and eco-friendly operation, but we keep our cars a very long time. (my Volvo 240 is 20 years old this summer) How much to repair that Prius over a 15-20 year period?

We bought a Matrix.

[blackcat]

Prius are Ugly cars.

This from a guy who doesn't like square head Guzzi's. 

[Tom]

$10/gal.  Minor cost when on a moped/scooter.  Two wheels and still riding.

[T.B.]

 
this question doesnt even make sense to me.  if gas was so expensive that one could not afford to operate a motorcycle.  then one would not own and operate a car either.  now, at some point in time if they just plain run out of oil , and everyone drives around in nuclear powered smart cars, and theres still some old guys in suspenders and corn cob pipes driving gas guzzling EVs well then more power to them (and us!)

[Andyswad]

When it gets to ten bucks a gallon?

You don't wanna come to the UK then, passed that ages ago but now they only sell and price it in litres so nobody really knows what it costs.

Price has settled at appx £1 per litre at normal stations, when it went to silly prices six months ago super unleaded was at £1.60 at motorways the news even reported it at £2 a litre at one ripoff garage.

Yep we are being screwed by the government

[Lannis]

I don't hate the Prius.  I just don't find it useful nor do I find hybrids a solution to the problem.

I would love to have an electric car that met my needs at a reasonable price.  None are here yet and the battery technology is not quite there yet.  However, they are not far away.  I figure within about 10 years I will be able to get what I want.

I thought that back in 1968 ... still waiting ... Do you have any reason for optimism?  I don't.   All I get is links to unavailable, overpriced science projects ...

Lannis

[blackcat]

I don't hate the Prius.  I just don't find it useful nor do I find hybrids a solution to the problem.

I would love to have an electric car that met my needs at a reasonable price.  None are here yet and the battery technology is not quite there yet.  However, they are not far away.  I figure within about 10 years I will be able to get what I want.

I thought that back in 1968 ... still waiting ... Do you have any reason for optimism?  I don't.   All I get is links to unavailable, overpriced science projects ...

Lannis

You were hoping to purchase or lease an EV1 if they became available back in the late 90's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

[Scott DeRoss]

If we can get gas engines to run on SEA WATER maybe we will get somewhere! 

[charlie b]

I don't hate the Prius.  I just don't find it useful nor do I find hybrids a solution to the problem.

I would love to have an electric car that met my needs at a reasonable price.  None are here yet and the battery technology is not quite there yet.  However, they are not far away.  I figure within about 10 years I will be able to get what I want.

I thought that back in 1968 ... still waiting ... Do you have any reason for optimism?  I don't.   All I get is links to unavailable, overpriced science projects ...

Lannis

You were hoping to purchase or lease an EV1 if they became available back in the late 90's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

Yep, I am a bit optimistic.  But, I also know what current battery technology is like and where it is going.  As well as electric motor stuff.  At the very least I will be able to build/convert my own.  Almost did that last year, but, decided to get a Guzzi instead

[Muzz]

As I hobble up the footpath with arthritis in both feet, one hip and a finger on each hand, that sporty little mobility scooter that the old lady down the road passes me on is beginning to look the bees knees.

[nowgrn4]

Yes, I will still be on two wheels with a whole bunch of others.Probably on something like this http://world.honda.com/news/2009/2090110Wave-110i/

A modern remake of the tried and true CT90/110.If they were currently imported,I would have one now for short errands and back roading.

[johnr]

$10 /Gal?

We pay that now for prenium gas, which most of the vehicles on the road here seem to need.

From experience let me tell you what you'll do.

You'll bitch about it and pay up, and continue as usual.

[charlie b]

John,

I always wanted to know about you guys in AU and NZ (and other countries for that matter).  What do you see for an average commute?  Is it just as varied as we have here in the US?

For a while I was at 70mi each way.  Now am down to 30mi.  Later this year will get down to 20mi.  If gas went up very high I'd have to consider a different job, or retire.