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Author Topic: What is the best selling motorcycle brand in the USA?  (Read 7030 times)
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« on: October 09, 2011, 09:22:01 PM »
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From the Internet....after I GOOGLED the question....

*************************************
Ducati

Actually United States became a very good market for the motorcycle market with large capacity engines. That’s what makes Ducati success in the first place as the best selling motorcycle in America.

“We sell more motorcycles in the United States compared with our domestic market. Only 20 percent of our products are sold in the domestic motorcycle market, with the remaining sales are made outside of Italy,” said Gabriele Del Torchio as President of Ducati Motor Holding during a visit to Ducati dealers in Miami Beach, United States, as reported by Motorcycle, Friday, September 23, 2011.
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 09:57:50 PM »
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I doubt it.

They say they sell more Ducs in the US than in Italy.   Not a surprise.  But do they sell more Ducs in the US than Honda, Harley, et al?  Maybe.  But I doubt it.
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 10:10:25 PM »
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I doubt it too. There cant be that many "red arse wankers" in USA.
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 10:14:38 PM »
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I see more Gold Wings than Ducatis.
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2011, 10:40:21 PM »
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Who cares? If Guzzi was the most popular bike I'd be riding something else!   Tongue   Actually, now I am, Piaggio MP3 scooters !!!   Lips Sealed
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 10:56:06 PM »
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Probably the circuits got crossed between something like - "Where is Ducati selling best?" and "What sells best in America?"
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 11:16:25 PM »
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Ural sold a grand total of one bike in Russia last year.... compared with 600+ in North America.  Using that logic, IMWA is kicking butt! Grin

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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 11:48:57 PM »
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Harley has been the biggest selling brand in the US for several years. Around 28% market share.
Honda is second with 25%
Ducati and BMW both have between 1 and 2%
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2011, 12:10:06 AM »
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Maybe the question was about the best selling Italian Brand motorcycle

,
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2011, 08:06:04 AM »
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Ducati isn't the best selling brand in the US.  Webbikeworld is the best source for worldwide sales numbers.  Ducati North America states that they sold sold 5250 bikes in the first half of 2011.  Scroll further down the link and you'll see that a little over 250,000 bikes were sold in the US in 2010(down from over a half million in 2009). 

I'd be willing to bet that Kawasaki sells more 250 Ninja's than Ducati sells across their entire lineup each year in the US. 

HD has been the best selling brand in the US for decades.  I can't put my hands on their annual unit numbers in the US right now but they are number 1 by a very large margin.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2011, 08:28:40 AM »
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Harley has been the biggest selling brand in the US for several years. Around 28% market share.
Honda is second with 25%
Ducati and BMW both have between 1 and 2%

This sounds the most accurate to me....  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2011, 12:52:18 PM »
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From the Internet....after I GOOGLED the question....

*************************************
Ducati

Actually United States became a very good market for the motorcycle market with large capacity engines. That’s what makes Ducati success in the first place as the best selling motorcycle in America.

We sell more motorcycles in the United States compared with our domestic market. Only 20 percent of our products are sold in the domestic motorcycle market, with the remaining sales are made outside of Italy,” said Gabriele Del Torchio as President of Ducati Motor Holding during a visit to Ducati dealers in Miami Beach, United States, as reported by Motorcycle, Friday, September 23, 2011.


JJ,

He's simply saying Ducati sells more motorcycles in the USA than they do in Italy.

He's not saying they sell more motorcycles than anyone else does in the USA.

Harley and Honda vie for that title, and it's in the hundreds of thousands of units.
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 02:46:10 PM »
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John,

You can get HD's numbers from the "investor relations" portion of their website.

I haven't checked in a while but recent years they were down from the peak of 300k+ bikes worldwide to a low near 200-250k.

Traditionally about 66% of that was domestic but that ratio may have changed. Either way they usually broke it down by domestic vs export numbers.
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2011, 02:50:06 PM »
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Looking at those wild numbers someone posted a while back about sales numbers in Italy - I wouldn't be surprised if Harley gave them a run for their money in Ducati's own back yard.
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2011, 02:55:50 PM »
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That said,  I think BMW might be #1 in Italy.
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2011, 03:10:46 PM »
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That said,  I think BMW might be #1 in Italy.




And for decades Moto Guzzi has sold more bikes in Germany than in any other country.  Huh
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« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2011, 03:19:33 PM »
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You know...someone asked me this question over the weekend...and I did not know! Huh 

So again, without researching further, this would be my guess....  which someone posted....

** Harley has been the biggest selling brand in the US for several years. Around 28% market share.
** Honda is second with 25%
** Ducati and BMW both have between 1 and 2%


NOTE:  Triumph sold something like 45,000-50,000 units worldwide last year, but not sure how many in the USA (?)  Probably in the mix with Ducati / BMW, but less, yes?

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« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2011, 03:24:29 PM »
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JJ, that sounds about right from the last numbers I saw.

Triumph broke the 10k units/year mark in the US probably going on a decade ago (shortly after intro of the Bonnie ).

Ducati broke the 10k units/year mark in the US just a couple of years ago and seems to be climbing.

I believe the US is BMWs 2nd largest market and annual worldwide sales approaches 100k give or take.
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 04:20:39 PM »
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If Moto Guzzi could reach 1% level of the US market some Italian manager types would pee their pants.   
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 04:41:12 PM »
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If Moto Guzzi could reach 1% level of the US market some Italian manager types would pee their pants.   

I recall the last Guzzi numbers I saw (several years ago...) was about 5,000 units, worldwide.
(I think....Huh Someone correct me if I am wrong on this one!)
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2011, 04:42:36 PM »
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JJ, that sounds about right from the last numbers I saw.

Triumph broke the 10k units/year mark in the US probably going on a decade ago (shortly after intro of the Bonnie ).

Ducati broke the 10k units/year mark in the US just a couple of years ago and seems to be climbing.

I believe the US is BMWs 2nd largest market and annual worldwide sales approaches 100k give or take.

Some other motorcycle statistics here:  http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2011, 07:24:11 PM »
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But do they sell more Ducs in the US than Honda, Harley, et al?  Maybe.  But I doubt it.

Of course they do.  Honda sells Hondas and Harley sells Harley here in the US.  Neither of them sell Ducs here.
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2011, 08:22:57 PM »
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If Moto Guzzi could reach 1% level of the US market some Italian manager types would pee their pants.  

If Guzzi sold at the same rate as somewhere like Australia (per head of population) US sales would be around 2500-3000 a year.

AFAIK Ducati make between 40-50 000 bikes a year total production, HD make around 300 000 of which about 2/3rds goes to the domestic market, basically no way on a blue fit, Ducati from a volume point of view is a pretty small company.
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2011, 09:52:31 PM »
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If Moto Guzzi could reach 1% level of the US market some Italian manager types would pee their pants.  

If Guzzi sold at the same rate as somewhere like Australia (per head of population) US sales would be around 2500-3000 a year.

AFAIK Ducati make between 40-50 000 bikes a year total pepproduction, HD make around 300 000 of which about 2/3rds goes to the domestic market, basically no way on a blue fit, Ducati from a volume point of view is a pretty small company.
300K was HD best year, now they are closer to 200K using modern day accounting practices with reality figures estimated at 150K+. HD as been able to grow the foreign markets, especially the  European market with help from a week dollar. In 1998 I got 2000+ lire per dollar, this past summer it cost me 1.47 dollars per Euro. Five years ago I got 1.97 Canadian dollars per American dollar two years ago I got .93CD per AD. BTW Ducati cheapened their superbike from the top of the line 999 components and build quality wise to the cheap by comparison 1098 to maintain their USA market share.
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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2011, 10:03:48 PM »
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300K was HD best year, now they are closer to 200K using modern day accounting practices with reality figures estimated at 150K+. HD as been able to grow the foreign markets, especially the  European market with help from a week dollar.

Even at 150 000 bikes thats still three times as many as Ducati make.
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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2011, 10:42:49 PM »
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You know...someone asked me this question over the weekend...and I did not know! Huh 

So again, without researching further, this would be my guess....  which someone posted....

** Harley has been the biggest selling brand in the US for several years. Around 28% market share.
** Honda is second with 25%
** Ducati and BMW both have between 1 and 2%


NOTE:  Triumph sold something like 45,000-50,000 units worldwide last year, but not sure how many in the USA (?)  Probably in the mix with Ducati / BMW, but less, yes?



At first I was amazed.  BMW couldn't have only 2% of the US market share.  It had to be larger.  Their influence and "presence" is large.  But then I thought about how many beemers I actually see....and you know....maybe it is 1 - 2% of the market. 

That accounts for the most frequent  bystander remark when they see my Guzzi:  "They still make those?"
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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2011, 11:32:14 PM »
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300K was HD best year
now they are closer to 200K
using modern day accounting practices with reality figures estimated at 150K+.

Your numbers are wrong.  Not that it matters, but they're available if you want to look for them.  You're low by @50,000 on each count.  Plus, what the heck do you mean by "modern accounting practices"?  A unit is a unit, no matter what century in which your accountant went school... 

HD as been able to grow the foreign markets

This is true.  HD have been able to continually grow thier Euro sales. 

Good for them.
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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2011, 04:17:57 AM »
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300K was HD best year
now they are closer to 200K
using modern day accounting practices with reality figures estimated at 150K+.

Your numbers are wrong.  Not that it matters, but they're available if you want to look for them.  You're low by @50,000 on each count.  Plus, what the heck do you mean by "modern accounting practices"?  A unit is a unit, no matter what century in which your accountant went school... 

HD as been able to grow the foreign markets

This is true.  HD have been able to continually grow thier Euro sales. 

Good for them.

Yup,record HD sales here,in mining towns of northern OZ...!?!
...and even in India.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/78623-harley-davidson-appoints-dealers-across-india.html
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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2011, 05:40:18 AM »
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This is true.  HD have been able to continually grow thier Euro sales. 

Good for them.

Yup,record HD sales here,in mining towns of northern OZ...!?!
...and even in India.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/78623-harley-davidson-appoints-dealers-across-india.html

So they might actually have what 6% of a market here if they are lucky!
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« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2011, 09:28:33 AM »
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300K was HD best year
now they are closer to 200K
using modern day accounting practices with reality figures estimated at 150K+.

Your numbers are wrong.  Not that it matters, but they're available if you want to look for them.  You're low by @50,000 on each count.  Plus, what the heck do you mean by "modern accounting practices"?  A unit is a unit, no matter what century in which your accountant went school... 

HD as been able to grow the foreign markets

This is true.  HD have been able to continually grow thier Euro sales. 

Good for them.
Those are not MY numbers, I never counted their bikes, but those are numbers floating on the HD forums, which made sense to me, HD A PUBLIC TRADED CO. is posting these great sales figures as dealers are disappearing.

Accounting practices? Where have you been, under a rock? If accounting was so simple you wouldn't a degree/CPA and the world"s economy would"t be so sick. Just ask Wall Street, I know, I know its a long way from Arkansas. 
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2011, 10:14:34 AM »
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Molto - of course dealers are disappearing, whether the numbers are 200 vs 300 or 250 vs 350, they're down about 30% or about 100k bikes from peak production/sales (that after a record 20-something years of unprecedented sales growth).

As I said earlier you can find bike DELIVERY units on their website.

Now maybe that means "delivery" to dealers and not end-unit sales to customers, I can't say for sure.

It actually didn't matter for about 2 full decades because they sold every bike they delivered to dealers.

Still industry numbers that report sales probably do so in the same fashion for Honda, Kawi etc - as I doubt any company will report the numbers that make them look worse. So when we see Honda or Kawi numbers (or BMW or Guzzi) I suspect we're seeing an apples-to-apples comparison (even if that does mean delivery to dealers).

When I've seen sales units from REGISTRATION data (that I've posted here before), they seem to support the same type of sales ratios, so why bicker if the actual number in a given year was 200k or 250k.

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« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2011, 10:19:14 AM »
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Now this data is more than a year old and it was only a 1 month snap-shot from middle-america.

But my buddy (who was GM of a multi-brand dealer for many years) said this data was supplied to him by Triumph (one of the franchises they had) and it was pretty typical for US sales from other reports he was getting.

Quote
881 motorcycles were sold/registered (on-road) in said territory in one month.

Of those

465 were Harleys

116 were Yamahas

112 were Kawasakis

101 were Hondas

37 were Suzukis

17 were Triumphs

12 were Bombardier (Can-Ams)

9 were BMWs

8 were Victorys

2 were Ducatis

1 was a KTM

1 was a Piaggio

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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2011, 12:01:32 PM »
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Just ask Wall Street, I know, I know its a long way from Arkansas.  

Thank God.  And, I wouldn't have it any other way!  That 1,300 miles is a nice buffer...

Making fun of Arkansas is a sure sign that someone doesn't know WTF he's talking about.  It's just too easy, especially when one's own location is hidden    Wink

Here are some numbers for you:

*Harley-Davidson has raised its shipment forecast for 2011, and now expects to ship between 228,000 and 235,000 motorcycles to dealers worldwide, an increase of 8% to 12% compared to 2010′s shipments.

*the company has seen nearly five years of dwindling sales, 2011 might be the first year the company sees things turned around for it since 2006.

 
2010: 210,494  
2009: 223,023
2008: 313,769
2007: 330,600
2006: 349,200
2005: 329,000
2004: 317,300
2003: 291,100
2002: 263,700
2001: 234,500
2000: 204,600
 
  
 Here's a link with some good info from the 2007 report:  
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/downloads/Annual_Reports/2007/HD_Annual2007.pdf?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US



  
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« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2011, 12:18:43 PM »
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They've moved stuff around on the website - but look under COMPANY and INVESTOR RELATIONS for most items.

They now have a PDF investor "Fact Book" which details motorcycle shipments from 1986 to 2010 which is fun historical data on Harley production numbers

You can download the fact book here

http://investor.harley-davidson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=87981&p=irol-factbook

or directly

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MTAzNTAyfENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1

Shipment data is on page

40 of 64

it goes from

1986 -36,735 units (29,910 of which were US)

to a peak in 2006  - 349,196 units (273,212 of which were US)

to last year's 2010 figures - 210,494 (only 131,636 of which were US so it represents their 3rd best ever year on exports).

This year they are at 120,642 for the first 2 quarters which is a slight increase over 2010 for the same period.

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« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2011, 12:23:48 PM »
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it goes from

1986 -36,735 units (29,910 of which were US)

to a peak in 2006  - 349,196 units (273,212 of which were US)

 

Pretty nice increase over a 20-year period!

I remember in 1983 when they were at the 35K mark.  Bikes filled the showrooms.  No one was buying.

Then came the Evo...

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« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2011, 01:01:45 PM »
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Now this data is more than a year old and it was only a 1 month snap-shot from middle-america.

But my buddy (who was GM of a multi-brand dealer for many years) said this data was supplied to him by Triumph (one of the franchises they had) and it was pretty typical for US sales from other reports he was getting.

Quote
881 motorcycles were sold/registered (on-road) in said territory in one month.

Of those

465 were Harleys

116 were Yamahas

112 were Kawasakis

101 were Hondas

37 were Suzukis

17 were Triumphs

12 were Bombardier (Can-Ams)

9 were BMWs

8 were Victorys

2 were Ducatis

1 was a KTM

1 was a Piaggio


These numbers are valid and interesting but don't include bikes under 50cc or off road machines.  Those two niches represent about 60,000 of the total 260,000 bikes sold in the US last year.  Dual sport bikes(which are included in your numbers) and scooters are the two largest growth segments in the US motorcycle market. 

The above info is from the link I posted 20 replies ago in the thread. 
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

To the original point of the thread...HD sells literally one half of all bikes sold each year in America.  Add all the dirtbikes, scooters, dual sports, cruisers etc and you get roughly 260,000 in 2010.  HD sold about 130,000.     
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« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2011, 02:25:28 PM »
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I'm aware of the other market segments,  but they hold as little interest to me as ATV's or snowmobiles (I.e. none  Wink ).
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« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2011, 04:51:48 PM »
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They're relevent to the OP's question since they represent almost 25% of US annual sales figures.     
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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2011, 04:56:24 PM »
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To the original point of the thread...HD sells literally one half of all bikes sold each year in America.  Add all the dirtbikes, scooters, dual sports, cruisers etc and you get roughly 260,000 in 2010.  HD sold about 130,000.     

The original point of this thread was a falacy, a failure in reading comprehension:

“We sell more motorcycles in the United States compared with our domestic market. Only 20 percent of our products are sold in the domestic motorcycle market, with the remaining sales are made outside of Italy,”

The man was simply saying that Ducati sells more motorcycles in the USA than it does in Italy.  He was not claiming that Ducati was the top selling brand in the USA.

 
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2011, 05:02:08 PM »
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They're relevent to the OP's question since they represent almost 25% of US annual sales figures.     

Yes and No.

It's stats.

So it depends on what the OP actual cares about with that figure.

And arguably, since Ducati makes no bikes that fit that category, it would be more comparing apples-to-apples to only include street bikes.

As far as I'm concerned (as a person who lives in a place where any vehicle that is not licenced for the road is useless and might as well not exist) there's no reason to even consider non-road going vehicles in this discussion. You might as well add generator and jet ski production into the figures then. 

Plus what Rocker said 
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