Author Topic: 2013 V7 Stone first ride  (Read 16571 times)

Offline mphcycles

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 971
2013 V7 Stone first ride
« on: September 19, 2012, 10:24:05 PM »
 We just got one off the truck today, so as a  service to my loyal customers I forced my self to ride it to a local bike/car night.  I know, I know, but its all part of the job.
 The small blocks have held a spot in my heart for a while, I have been riding and enjoying a 2012 lately.
 All the passerby comments were favorable, everyone loves the cast wheels.  Overall styling is understated cool.
 Now as for the ride, the new motor and the electronic throttle ROCK.  This bike is definitely punching above its weight.
  The new airbox under the seat kind of has the same effect as a subwoofer under a car seat.  I can feel the intake honk when cranked on more than hear it.  It has more torque in the ranges needed for urban work, and it may be smoother on the highway.  As I got close to the shop to  put it away, I was thinking,  this bike would  just run away from my V7 Sports under most any conditions. And be easier to ride...  Damn progress.  Its always making things better.
 Overall  ;-T ;-T ;-T
Mike Haven
MPH Cycles
16510 Park Row
Houston, Texas 77084
281 647 6557
www.mphcycles.com
 (Please just email me ,  I dont PM)

Offline John Ulrich

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4090
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 10:27:23 PM »
 :PICS!:
Eagan, Minne-snow-ta
MN MGNOC Rep  L#800
'51 Astore, '72 Ambassador, '99 Bassa, '03 Wing
AMA, AMCA      
http://minnesota.mgnoc.com/

Offline Guzzsal

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 10:30:15 PM »
Thank you for this great write up.  It rides as great as it looks, can't wait to see one at my local dealer. 

Offline mphcycles

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 971
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 10:50:32 PM »
 not much in the pics dept, other than the now  expected pic at the front door.   I mean come  on, hasnt every body seen pics of the bike by now?   I suck at photog, so dont do much of it.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.470980019580929.112157.163894960289438&type=1&ref=notif&notif_t=like h
Mike Haven
MPH Cycles
16510 Park Row
Houston, Texas 77084
281 647 6557
www.mphcycles.com
 (Please just email me ,  I dont PM)

pokeyjoe

  • Guest
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 11:40:11 PM »
What happened to the hose on the evap canister that runs up to the airbox (next to the ECU)?  Canister's there, but no hose.  Is it OK to suck unfiltered air now?

Offline Nick in PRC.

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1428
  • Better Red than dead.
    • illuminati guizzisti
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 12:40:17 AM »
I think it's interesting that it may be capable of beating the original V7 Sport. That might (maybe) silence the nay-sayers somewhat.

40 years later.  ;D

Is the oil capacity still miniscule ?
Nick in PRC.

Read, digest, understand....The National Archive. Facts not Fox.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB254/index.htm

Find other illuminati guzzisti at http://illuminatiguzzisti.forumcircle.com/index.php

Offline CND

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 279
  • Love the Sun
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 01:00:34 AM »
Thanks for the report.

Patiently waiting.
2014 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2013 Ducati StreetFighter 848
2008 Vespa LX150
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone (traded)

Offline goog64

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2029
  • +
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 02:10:56 AM »
:pop
John F.
Moto Guzzi NeV7C (I finally got the V7C I wanted, in the form of a modified Nevada)
Gone but not forgotten: '07 Nevada, '76-'84-'98 SPEVert, '76 850 T3, '84 V65, '01 Stone Metal, '05 Nevada

+

Offline Stephen

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 620
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 06:14:44 AM »
What is the electronic throttle about? It looks like it still has throttle cables.
Stephen
Dallas Texas
CMA
2003 Aluminum
1971 Ambassador

Offline Vasco DG

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6800
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2012, 06:28:43 AM »
It is a happy thing if that is what you want. It's not my sort of motorbike but from a 'Service' standpoint it really is a very nice piece of engineering.

I know that a lot of people view stuff like fuel injection and electronic equipment as deeply suspicious and prone to leaving you stranded in urine drinking country but in all honesty this isn't the case. The old maxim that tou can fix points and carbs at the side of the road is I'm afraid one of those old furphy's that persists. Quite frankly there are few people around nowadays lik JB who would do a clutch at the side of the road and fewer still in the general scheme of things who could even adjust points or replace a throttle or clutch cable at the side of the road.

No, I'm not suggesting for a minute that this lack of ability is a fault, simply stating that in this day and age, while some common sense and fault finding ability should be necessary before you are allowed to operate a vehicle the ability to carry out a roadside rebuild is NOT nowadays a requirement, it's 2012 not 1912!

Generally speaking modern electronics are very reliable, even Italian ones! My Mana is probably the second most complex, electronically, bike on the market. It has three on-board computers that talk to each other and the scan-tool through can-bus lines. The one time it has let me down it was the boring old DC starter motor that shat itself!

The new V7 is a great bike, if that is what you want. If they were to stick a real gearbox and final drive in it and put it in a 'Mini Stelvio' package I'd buy the first one off the boat. As it is it doesn't tick MY boxes but it s, undeniably, an improvement on the last model. (Looks cooler too! ~;)

VDG

Offline Kev m

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 21533
  • Not your normal Hombre
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 06:29:43 AM »
I believe the new throttle body has the ECU and a few sensors all incorporated in one unit.

I don't think he meant fly by wire.
Current Fleet

13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696
07 HD XL1200Lr

Offline Vasco DG

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6800
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 06:31:32 AM »
What is the electronic throttle about? It looks like it still has throttle cables.

No, it's not RBW. What it is is an integrated throttle body, ECU and stepper system that is basically 'Set and Forget'. Simple and easy. Brilliant.

VDG

Offline gentlemanjim

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 06:41:08 AM »
I like it a lot.  Seems MG had a hard time dceiding what to configure their small block bike since the demise of the Breva.  First white then black, green cafe, red&white and now matte black.  The new powertrain not withstanding.

What is the origin of the monicker "Stone"?

Offline Kev m

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 21533
  • Not your normal Hombre
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 07:06:23 AM »
I thought I read it was supposed to convey rock solid reliability, as in a Stone axe.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 07:44:33 AM by Kev m »
Current Fleet

13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696
07 HD XL1200Lr

Offline mphcycles

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 971
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 09:55:47 AM »
No, it's not RBW. What it is is an integrated throttle body, ECU and stepper system that is basically 'Set and Forget'. Simple and easy. Brilliant.

VDG
Pete it sort of is RBW,  the cables operate a potentiometer in the throttle unit, and the controller decides how far to move the blade. There is a limp home, function that allows the cable to control it up to maybe 20% opening if the electronics let you down.  Its a basic kind of system similar to what  eusro cars had in the early part of the 2000's. Then they went to  no cables at all. Some  other bikes may use just a TPS at the grip and be full on RBW, I dont know .  That is std now for cars, the gas pedal is just a sensor, with no connection to the throttle blade except digitally
Mike Haven
MPH Cycles
16510 Park Row
Houston, Texas 77084
281 647 6557
www.mphcycles.com
 (Please just email me ,  I dont PM)

Offline Matteo Manfredi

  • Lifetime member MGNOC
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1162
  • I'm a strong believer in Scepticism
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 10:26:35 AM »

The new V7 is a great bike, if that is what you want. If they were to stick a real gearbox and final drive in it and put it in a 'Mini Stelvio' package I'd buy the first one off the boat. As it is it doesn't tick MY boxes but it s, undeniably, an improvement on the last model. (Looks cooler too! ~;)

VDG

 :+1

Anyone at Piaggio listening?
80 CX-100
82 V50III
84 LMIII
00 Jackal
00 V11Sport
02 K1200LT
07 Norge

Offline Kev m

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 21533
  • Not your normal Hombre
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 11:16:38 AM »
So Mike, does that mean there its no separate stepper for idle bypass? I would think the ECM could then control idle speed directly through throttle position.
Current Fleet

13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696
07 HD XL1200Lr

Offline lucydad

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2057
  • Lucydad
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 02:22:45 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for your fine report!  Congrats to MG for design upgrades on the superb small block.  I look forward to seeing this bike soon.

Who knows, maybe in 2 years, when I turn 60, a new 2015 V7 would make a good birthday present?
Can't figure it out...slower than you...

Online PeteS

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1962
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 02:47:44 PM »
I expected to see a cruiser bike. Mike, is the throttle as progressive as the old cable to butterfly? Triumph uses this system of cable to computer to stepper motor and the throttle is like a switch... on-off.
A solution looking for a problem.

Pete

Offline Vasco DG

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6800
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 03:18:02 PM »
Pete it sort of is RBW,  the cables operate a potentiometer in the throttle unit, and the controller decides how far to move the blade. There is a limp home, function that allows the cable to control it up to maybe 20% opening if the electronics let you down.  Its a basic kind of system similar to what  eusro cars had in the early part of the 2000's. Then they went to  no cables at all. Some  other bikes may use just a TPS at the grip and be full on RBW, I dont know .  That is std now for cars, the gas pedal is just a sensor, with no connection to the throttle blade except digitally

Interesting. I didn't have that explained to me at the course in Sydney, I thought the butterfly was still cable controlled. It's the same system they've been using on some if the Aprilia scooters for a while now. It certainly seems to be pretty reliable and *virtually* foolproof.

Pete

Offline mphcycles

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 971
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 06:47:06 PM »
 Pete I have not had a course on it so may be I am full up, but the unit visually is just like  the stuff we see on cars every day.  The cables are on the right side, the motor that drives the blade is on the left.  The smarts are in the middle.
 I found it to be not at all choppy or hard to modulate . And there is no reason for an external idle device when the throttle blade is under computer control.( It does that too)
  Well sorted  mapping and throttle controls, IMHO
Mike Haven
MPH Cycles
16510 Park Row
Houston, Texas 77084
281 647 6557
www.mphcycles.com
 (Please just email me ,  I dont PM)

Offline Kev m

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 21533
  • Not your normal Hombre
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 07:44:45 PM »
And there is no reason for an external idle device when the throttle blade is under computer control.( It does that too)

I'm trying to think if I've seen any exceptions.

Of course, a system like this also lays the groundwork for throttle based traction control too for the same reason.
Current Fleet

13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696
07 HD XL1200Lr

Offline Crusty

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3965
  • You can't put a price on Worthlessness.
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 07:51:27 PM »
I guess this gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Getting Stoned"?
"I think Congressmen should wear uniforms, you know, like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors."

'07 Norge

Offline sign216

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3231
    • Modern Guzzi 750s - Breva, Nevada, V7C, etc
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 08:33:14 PM »
Pete it sort of is RBW,  the cables operate a potentiometer in the throttle unit, and the controller decides how far to move the blade. There is a limp home, function that allows the cable to control it up to maybe 20% opening if the electronics let you down.  Its a basic kind of system similar to what  eusro cars had in the early part of the 2000's. Then they went to  no cables at all. Some  other bikes may use just a TPS at the grip and be full on RBW, I dont know .  That is std now for cars, the gas pedal is just a sensor, with no connection to the throttle blade except digitally

So it's no longer a traditional throttle-cable-butterfly connection?  It's a partial ride by wire (RBW)?

I'm a little sad.  Part of the 750's appeal is that it's a throw-back.  A neanderthal of motorcycles.  A coelacanth.  A little like the Royal Enfield. 

Bravely resisting the push to modernity. 
09 Guzzi V7C
58 BMW R50
65 Gilera 106

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MG_750/info

Offline prof_stack

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 668
  • Ride safely. You are invisible.
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2012, 09:14:14 PM »
So it's no longer a traditional throttle-cable-butterfly connection?  It's a partial ride by wire (RBW)?

I'm a little sad.  Part of the 750's appeal is that it's a throw-back.  A neanderthal of motorcycles.  A coelacanth.  A little like the Royal Enfield.   :o

Bravely resisting the push to modernity.

We better hope its very little like the Royal Enfield, like the 2010 Classic I got rid of to be replaced by the baby Breva.
Cycle therapy is the best therapy.
Current rides:  2007 Breva 750

Offline Cal3Me

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2012, 12:48:41 AM »
All the money spent on this modern techno stuff and now they don't have to paint them.. good deal ???


Tim
TMS

Offline sign216

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3231
    • Modern Guzzi 750s - Breva, Nevada, V7C, etc
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2012, 05:51:43 AM »
No manual spark advance, kick starter or manual oil pump*?

Hah! A Poser bike for the masses!

(*but optional at extra cost)


Don't laugh.  Like a manual spark advance, Guzzi had a manual throttle stop (the "choke") on previous V7s, all because it "was too hard" (?) to modify the map to raise rpms on a cold bike. 

That's a modern version of an archaic design.
09 Guzzi V7C
58 BMW R50
65 Gilera 106

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MG_750/info

Offline Kev m

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 21533
  • Not your normal Hombre
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2012, 06:55:10 AM »
Don't laugh.  Like a manual spark advance, Guzzi had a manual throttle stop (the "choke") on previous V7s, all because it "was too hard" (?) to modify the map to raise rpms on a cold bike. 

That's a modern version of an archaic design.

Actually no, it has nothing to do with the map or enrichment, it didn't have an idle air control valve.
Current Fleet

13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696
07 HD XL1200Lr

Offline Dogwalker

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2012, 08:59:37 AM »
Don't laugh.  Like a manual spark advance, Guzzi had a manual throttle stop (the "choke") on previous V7s, all because it "was too hard" (?) to modify the map to raise rpms on a cold bike.
As said, it doesn't exist a "map to raise rpms on a cold bike".
If the throttle body has a stepper motor, the ECU can keep the engine at the RPM he wants whenever he wants.
If it hasn't, the ECU can only enrich the mixture on a cold bike, and that's not a guarantee, so there is the manual throttle stop.
The Ducati Monster, for example, lost the "choke" only with the 696 / 1100 models.

Offline Kev m

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 21533
  • Not your normal Hombre
Re: 2013 V7 Stone first ride
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2012, 09:55:12 AM »

Ooops, yeah, I meant to post more on that when I got on the laptop - as opposed to my phone.

A lot of people seem to confuse how a choke works with how EFI systems address cold start.

A carbureted fuel system uses a choke to block off air but add lots of extra fuel for cold start enrichment. The carb is set with a throttle plate that remains cracked open adjusted just to the point that is sufficient for proper hot idle operation. Adding THAT much more fuel allows it to run, in the cold or run too fast or stumble at the same setting once warmed (not sure why it actually runs faster in those conditions).

HOWEVER - EFI systems automatically adjust for cold temperature and every one I've ever seen either uses an Idle Air Control Valve/Bypass Valve and/or on late-model systems with throttle-by-wire, just adjusts the throttle plate in order to control engine rpm at idle. I've always assumed the main difference was in the amount of enrichment, i.e. that the EFI mapping doesn't have to go quite as pig rich as a Carb, but I'm not positive. I just know that they control the actual rpm strictly through air management.

As said, it doesn't exist a "map to raise rpms on a cold bike".
If the throttle body has a stepper motor, the ECU can keep the engine at the RPM he wants whenever he wants.
If it hasn't, the ECU can only enrich the mixture on a cold bike, and that's not a guarantee, so there is the manual throttle stop.
The Ducati Monster, for example, lost the "choke" only with the 696 / 1100 models.

FWIW I've still got a fast idle lever on our 2011 Ducati M696 ABS model.

Current Fleet

13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696
07 HD XL1200Lr

 


MPH Cycles
Texas's #1 Moto Guzzi dealer since 2000!
http://www.mphcycles.com/
Advertise Here