Author Topic: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?  (Read 5011 times)

Offline youcanrunnaked

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3832
  • '03 California EV; Suzuki SV650; Suzuki DR650
HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« on: June 02, 2013, 02:47:46 PM »
Just got back from a Memorial Day trip, and the EV is still acting up.  The bike hesitates and bucks in the 3,200 - 3,700 rpm range, but only once the engine is at full operating temperature, usually after a half-hour or more of riding.  If I turn the throttle very, very gently, I can ride through the rough spot, but if I twist the throttle vigorously, I get no response; in fact, the bike slows down like the engine is not getting any fuel.   (If I park the bike, say, for lunch, it runs fine again until it gets warmed up.)  This usually happens in fifth gear, but sometimes in fourth.  Usually on the highway, on longer trips, especially.  On short trips around town, I do not notice this.  On my Memorial Day trip, I mostly avoided the problem by not using fifth gear and keeping the revs above 4,000 rpm.  I am going on another trip, leaving this Tuesday, and I would like to fix the problem before I leave.

Spark plugs are new and plug wires look fine.  I intend to change the air and gas filters, as soon as I figure out how to do that.  (Possibly the subject of another post, but for now I'm willing to try with the information I already have.)  I am thinking the problem is a bad TPS, but I am looking for confirmations and/or suggestions of other areas to inspect, too.

As for the TPS, I have no idea where it is on my bike (2003 Californiai EV), what it looks like, or how to test it.  I have read that it can be tested with a multimeter; I have one but have no idea how to use it.  Like I said, I need a "For Dummies" explanation.  If someone can direct me to or post a step-by-step tutorial, with pictures, I would be very grateful.

Also, can someone confirm that if the TPS is bad, the replacement Harley-Davidson part that I want is HD part number is 27271-95.

As for removing the old TPS and installing the new one, again, I have no real clue.  If anyone can direct me to a step-by-step with pictures, that would be a big help.

Also, how do you calibrate the new TPS?  (I do not have an Axone, if one is needed.)  I found this explanation in the "Tips and Tricks" section of this website, which I think is what is being described, but it is Greek to me:

Swapping Tip from Wildguzzi:
Here's some 15 minute TPS instructions I have sent to several people who have changed their TPS this way successfully.
1. Mark with a pencil, the line on the current TPS in reference to your throttle body.
2. Get a digital volt meter (analog will do no good for this application), set it to the lowest DC setting on there, usually MV.
3. Pearce the 2 outer cables that go to the TPS, and take the reading (ignition on).
4. Turn off ignition and pull the old TPS off.
5. Put the new one on, and line up the line on the TPS with the line you made on the throttle body.
6. Snug the bolts, but don't tighten. You'll still need to turn the TPS.
7. Rotate the TPS (key on) until you have your old reading.  A hair width of a turn will make a HUGE difference. I used a screwdriver and tapped it until I found the reading. Its a picky booger.
8. Tighten the bolts.
9. Start the bike.
10. Take off.


http://www.wildguzzi.com/Tips/tips_n_tricks.htm#TPS

Do the throttle bodies need to be synced after this?  If so, how is that done?

Finally, I would not mind taking the easy way out.  Assuming my TPS is the culprit, and I can get my hands on the replacement Harley part, would anyone along my route be willing to help me with the install?  I will be leaving South Florida this Tuesday morning 06/04, heading via Fla. Turnpike and I-75 to Atlanta area.  On Wednesday, 06/05 I will be leaving Atlanta area, headed for Fontana Dam, NC.  (Sunday and /Monday, 06/09 and 06/10, I will be in the South Charlotte, NC area, but I would prefer to get this fixed before hitting the twisties in and around Fontana.)

Thank you.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 03:19:15 PM by youcanrunnaked »
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
-- Billy Joel, Motorcyclist, 02/2012

"If Moto Guzzi were any more of a cult, you'd need a chicken."
--- Dan Neil, The Wall Street Journal, 04/19/2013

Offline wildduck

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1120
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 04:04:36 PM »
TPS sits on the left side throttle body, underneath the throttle butterfly itself. That much I know. For the rest there are many, many posts on the subject here,

hope that helps,

John
2000 Cali Jackal
1980 Honda CBX
1998 BMW R1200C
1982 Honda VF 750 S

New Haven, CT

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16086
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 08:15:21 PM »
It sounds to me like you need to stop in and have Guzzi Steve fix your motorcycle as you are headed North. FWIW, that sounds more like a coil than a TPS to me. If it's a bad spot in the TPS, you can kill the engine by carefully rolling the throttle into that area and holding it.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 Lario
95 Skorpion tour

Offline dxhall

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 303
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 08:44:07 PM »
This is a well-ploughed field.  There's a very thorough explanation on V11Lemans.com, which is the best I've seen.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 08:44:36 PM by dxhall »

Offline fotoguzzi

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13946
  • vee git tooh soon oldt und too late wise -my Dad
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2013, 08:53:18 PM »
do you have an electric fuel tap ? or could the petcock be clogged? I would not jump to the TPS as first problem.
2009 Buel xb12XT Ulysses
 2011 Sachs MadAss 125

72 Honda Trail 90's
 MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline Wayne Orwig

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 10561
  • Location: Hog Mountain
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2013, 09:13:26 PM »
I would of course be more than glad to help, just north of Atlanta. But I'm on the Outer Banks right now and don't plan to return until Saturday.
You could get a HD TPS and stop by Riders Hill.
If you can measure the voltage, and get about 360millivolts. Then put in the replacement and adjust for the same, you are golden. But then you are probably due for a tune up and sync anyway.
Even duct tape can't fix stupid.
But it can muffle the sound.

Offline Kentktk

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1500
2014 MV Agusta F4
97 Moto Guzzi Sporti
04 Yamaha R1
KTM 400 EXC
Honda CT90
Live in Bellevue, WA.  15 minutes from Moto Intl!

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3648
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2013, 09:57:30 PM »
If your bike is one with a sidestand relay it could be that circuit also.
If the sidestand contact is bad it can cause the engine to loose power, backfire etc. because it drops out the ECU.

An easy way to check is pull the safety relay and short out the two large pins with a strand of bare wire.
The 2 large pins are 30 & 87 but some bikes use 30 & 87A which is the middle one of the 3 small ones. You
can short all 3 out, just don't short the coil toe 2 outside small ones.

My bike was exhibiting similar symptoms, not all the time just once in a while, I also noticed the tacho
would wander around with the engine not running (key on), this was caused by the sidestand switch sizzling away
causing noise on the tach signal. Wrapping a strand of wire around the relay pins solved it until I have time.
 
01 V11 Sport
84 California II
72 Eldorado
98 V11 EV
Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders for 90 years

Offline youcanrunnaked

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3832
  • '03 California EV; Suzuki SV650; Suzuki DR650
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 06:30:21 AM »
UPDATE:  It turns out the culprit was the side-stand switch, after all.  It was in the wrong position, so it would intermittently engage at a certain rpm range due to vibration, cutting out the engine.  With that fixed, as well as a complete servicing of the bike, it has never run better.  Anybody want to buy a new-in-the box genuine Harley-Davidson throttle position sensor?

Spent the past week riding from Florida through the Georgia mountains to Fontana Dam / Deal's Gap area of NC, riding around Western NC / Eastern TN, and now in Charlotte, NC.  The EV did fairly well on the Cherohala Skyway, the Hellbender and the Moonshiner.  Blood Mountain and the Tail of the Dragon - not so much, especially since those roads were cold and wet while I was on them.  I really do not like the Metzeler Marathon tires on the bike; the dry grip is mediocre and the wet weather performance is downright scary.  Can anybody suggest a stickier tire with better dry and especially wet-weather grip, that will still give me decent tread life?

The sprint from the Blue Ridge Mtns to Charlotte was hairy.  I got soaked in a torrential downpour, despite my rain gear.  Traffic came to a stop several times because nobody could see where the road was.  I was trying to make it to my younger daughter's HS graduation; I thought I might miss it, but I managed to make it on time.  With both kids now college students, I guess it's official: I am an old man.

Looks like another bad storm here today, so I will probably leave for Florida tomorrow.  It's been nice having the EV on this trip.  Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and encouragement.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 05:56:20 PM by youcanrunnaked »
"The transverse vibration is a great sensation -- hey, I think I just wrote a song!"
-- Billy Joel, Motorcyclist, 02/2012

"If Moto Guzzi were any more of a cult, you'd need a chicken."
--- Dan Neil, The Wall Street Journal, 04/19/2013

Offline fotoguzzi

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13946
  • vee git tooh soon oldt und too late wise -my Dad
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 06:49:53 AM »
  I would not jump to the TPS as first problem.
I really like Pirelli Sport demons.. I'll never buy metzlers again.
2009 Buel xb12XT Ulysses
 2011 Sachs MadAss 125

72 Honda Trail 90's
 MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline lazlokovacs

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 136
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 09:45:35 AM »
would the v11 link apply to a cali vintage?

I think the throttle bodies are slightly different or something.

I could really do with a tps for dummies for the calvin!!

(I've got the guzzidiag software running if thats useful in any way...)


Offline fotoguzzi

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13946
  • vee git tooh soon oldt und too late wise -my Dad
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 09:51:09 AM »
would the v11 link apply to a cali vintage?

I think the throttle bodies are slightly different or something.

I could really do with a tps for dummies for the calvin!!

(I've got the guzzidiag software running if thats useful in any way...)


the V11 TPS is on the bottom of TB but principal is the same.
here's look at EV TB's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVTiUqw8hew
2009 Buel xb12XT Ulysses
 2011 Sachs MadAss 125

72 Honda Trail 90's
 MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline redrider

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1904
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 09:07:51 AM »
The V11 came with Roadsmarts and while I don't ride it like the Benelli or Sport 1100. It has rained every day since I was adopted by the Cafe Sport and I ride every day. I did get a step out on wet, off camber left turn to an uphill 15 deg slope. Easily corrected for, no prob. Dry performance is good and mileage looks good. A set of new Pilot Road 2 came with the purchase. I may run those if Avon quits calling me. You see, I run Avons on all of the Italian girls with excellent results. Avon Storm 2 Ultra gives 8-10000 on the high strung Benelli. Q2 was 3-4000. Storm 2 on the Sport 1100 is solid, glued to the road wet or dry. Two inches of water flowing across the road and I was able to steer with precision and confidence at 35-40 mph.
04 Cafe Sport; 07 Benelli Cafe Racer; 95 Sport 1100; 89 Mille GT;74 Norton Commando in Columbia SC USA

Offline krglorioso

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1123
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 12:23:48 AM »
Water on the roads?  Coming from the sky, you say?  Well, Toto, we can't be in California!

Ralph
Ralph

Offline Jabrjaws5000

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: HELP! Anybody Willing to Do a "TPS for Dummies" Write-Up?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2013, 12:05:09 AM »
I have a 98 EV.  It was stuttering in the 3-4000 rpms no matter what gear. Feels like defueling while under acceleration. Looked thru many other forum topics.  Fuel and air filter, new plugs and injector cleaner.  No fix.  Then came across the TPS forums.  I could never get my old TPS to do all the crazy spikes with ignition on testing milivolts that people talked about,  but got it to test crazy changes in ohms with ignition off, rolling thru the throttle ranges.  At "idle" tps read 1.109 kohms,  w.o.t 1.902 kohms,  but if I slowly and patiently enough rolled thru "cruising" throttle area the highest reading I got was 5.902 kohms in the area between 1.5 and 1.6 right where it would crap out in real world.  Replaced with Harley 27271-95 and even though folks go back and forth about compatibility,  I have no complaints specially at $56 compared to $270!!!   Used TPS replacement tip from Wildguzzi as well.

 


Motomoda Australia - Sales, spares, service, repairs. Advice and specialist products for Moto Guzzi. Aprilia Service.
(+61) 417 462 440 international, 0417 462 440 within Australia.
Advertise Here