Author Topic: Roy's Eldorado Adventure  (Read 50871 times)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2014, 08:22:40 PM »
Holly cow, it's nearly 8 months since I last posted, not a lot has to report I'm afraid.

I did send the uni joint away for refurbishing. Today I decided to remove the spokes from the rear wheel, what a job
they fought every inch of the way. The nipples came off without too much drama but the spokes were corroded into
the hub, I had to grab them in Vice grips and wiggle them until they broke free. I thought they were just steel but found they
were originally chrome plated. The front ones look like stainless.

Where can I get 4-3/8" SS spokes?

Thanks
Roy
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2014, 08:47:51 PM »
Holly cow, it's nearly 8 months since I last posted, not a lot has to report I'm afraid.

I did send the uni joint away for refurbishing. Today I decided to remove the spokes from the rear wheel, what a job
they fought every inch of the way. The nipples came off without too much drama but the spokes were corroded into
the hub, I had to grab them in Vice grips and wiggle them until they broke free. I thought they were just steel but found they
were originally chrome plated. The front ones look like stainless.

Where can I get 4-3/8" SS spokes?

Thanks
Roy

V700s and early Ambassadors had zinc-plated spokes, so maybe the rear wheel has been replaced.

I've bought sets of 40 spokes from Buchanan's: http://www.buchananspokes.com/ . You'll need the nipples too, the threads are different (rolled vs. cut IIRC).
Charlie

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2014, 10:11:35 AM »
Thanks Charlie, I will give them a call.
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 10:18:07 AM »
Thanks Charlie, I will give them a call.


Forgot MG Cycle has them too:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=218&products_id=289

Check with Harper's and Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics as well.
Charlie

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 10:18:07 AM »

Offline dl.allen

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2014, 11:46:07 AM »
For what its worth the best way I have found to clean those aluminum cases (by hand) is to use WD40 and a green scotchbrite pad.  Then wash off with hot soapy water, Dawn dish soap, then dry quickly. I have tried mineral spirits, Pine Sol, Gunk, high pressure car wash, wife's dishwasher etc etc.

For tough corrosion areas I use a little wire cup on a dremel tool to lightly remove deposits, but be careful it will change the appearance if you get on it too hard.

Other than that vapor blasting is the best and will make them look like new but I cant find anyone within my area. 

Good luck, the crank looks good to my untrained eye as well

Offline mgfan

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2014, 12:17:38 PM »
Roy- We have a vapour blaster here in Chilliwack that does good work at a reasonable price. As an aside,I have lots of loop parts left over if you need anything. (shipping is cheap,beer!) Harold  :BEER:
70 Ambassador, 74 Eldorado,  76 I-Convert, 71 Police Ambassador, 86 Califonia II, 90 California III, 03 Stone, 07 Norge

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2014, 10:19:17 PM »
For what its worth the best way I have found to clean those aluminum cases (by hand) is to use WD40 and a green scotchbrite pad. 

 ;-T I have found that to be the best way also. I use brake cleaner to spray it off.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2014, 10:31:42 PM »
Roy- We have a vapour blaster here in Chilliwack that does good work at a reasonable price. As an aside,I have lots of loop parts left over if you need anything. (shipping is cheap,beer!) Harold  :BEER:

Harold, I do need a few parts
Rear brake actuating arm The one on the other end of foot pedal, i had to cut mine to get it out
Front engine bolt, I had to cut that also
Fender stays
Pipes, mine are very rusty and devoid of chrome
Tank perhaps
I will send you a PM
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2014, 10:37:18 PM »
More Questions,
I had a bit of spare time this evening so I thought I would try polishing the rear Borani rim. First of all I brushed off most of the corrosion with a brass wire hand brush, then I attacked it with a buffing wheel and Brown Tripoli polish, this seemed to stick to the rim in places protecting it from the polishing wheel, what am I doing wrong?
In places where the polish didn't stick it seems to be scrubbing up nicely.

I was wondering if I should start off with a sandpaper, I have 400, 800, 2000 grit along with my Brown Tripoli, White Diamond and Red Rouge

What is the best way to preserve the finish once I get it looking decent, I'm not much of a spit and polish guy, should I clear coat the rims and hubs?


My Second (or fourth depending how you count) question.
I have decided to replace the bearing shells, I measured the shaft and has never been ground, still measures 1.7325" as best I can measure with my digital calipers.
Now when I look at the con rod I see an oil hole at the top to one side, this is on the same side of each rod, to the right looking from the rear, is that correct?

Never mind I found the answer in the Chilton Manual, it's correct  ;-T
What is the purpose of this little hole?

Thanks in advance

Roy
 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 06:44:38 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2014, 10:46:13 PM »
We're waiting , what's taking so long ?  :D

  Dusty

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2014, 09:47:22 AM »

What is the purpose of this little hole?


Squirts oil towards the cylinder wall. Eliminated on later rods.
Charlie

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2014, 10:12:30 AM »
More Questions,
I had a bit of spare time this evening so I thought I would try polishing the rear Borani rim. First of all I brushed off most of the corrosion with a brass wire hand brush, then I attacked it with a buffing wheel and Brown Tripoli polish, this seemed to stick to the rim in places protecting it from the polishing wheel, what am I doing wrong?
In places where the polish didn't stick it seems to be scrubbing up nicely.
I was wondering if I should start off with a sandpaper, I have 400, 800, 2000 grit along with my Brown Tripoli, White Diamond and Red Rouge
What is the best way to preserve the finish once I get it looking decent, I'm not much of a spit and polish guy, should I clear coat the rims and hubs?
Thanks in advance
Roy
 

Hi Roy,

Before I do anything I clean the wheel with the 50/50 solution of Aluminum brightener it gets all of the corrosion out of the inner surface of the rim





For cleaning up old Borrani rims I start with sand paper, I used a foam pad on an orbital palm sander (air tool but electric works fine), Depending on the condition I start with 220 and work up to 600 or 800 until al of the nicks and scrapes are sanded out.

If you get the surface to look like this you will be ready for buffing



For real deep cuts I use a file, hammer and dolly etc, but I would not recommend this unless you have experience working with aluminum. I use white polish 1st followed by red. Get a hold of a buffer wheel dressing tool, its a toothed steel rake on a wood handle for dressing the buffer pad every couple of minutes.

Hold the rim flat (horizontal) and slowly rotate it across the top of the spinning buffer wheel (assuming the buffer is mounted to a bench or stand) then do the inside by holding the rim vertical and pulling the rim to the back of the spinning wheel and oscillate the rim as you rotate it to polish around the spoke holes.



You don't need too much buffing compound and the rim will get very hot so wear leather gloves, and it does make a heck of a mess.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2014, 10:22:08 AM »
I've done pretty much the same, but with 3" wheels spun by a die grinder. Getting in between the spokes of an assembled wheel is tricky, but can be done with felt bobs.

Very messy job. I wear a Tyvek coverall, dust mask, etc. when doing any buffing.

Before and after:

Charlie

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2014, 10:52:06 AM »
Nice work Charlie!

I have never attempted to polish the rims fully assembled but may give it a try on a set of 850T wheels I need to clean up. Do you think its less work to disassemble the wheel to polish the spokes and rim than to work into all of the nooks and crannies with small tools? Just wondering as I have not tried polishing a complete wheel.

Cheers

Jim

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2014, 11:06:26 AM »
Polishing assembled, there's really no good way to do the spokes or hub, so if you want to do it all, taking it to bits is the only way. The wheels shown were done for a customer that just wanted the rims to look better. 
Charlie

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2014, 12:58:26 PM »
Thanks Charlie. Jim,
                             Wow, you sure got that wheel clean, I would have been quite happy with the one on the right. I never thought of the orbital sander, I have one of those. I have been using the buffing wheel in an electric drill but I have access to a bench type also, I have all the spokes out as they are rusty and need replacement.
A friend will help me make the rims into tubeless, he has had great success at that including his 46 Indian which I'm sure predated tubeless tires.

My Goldwing had clear-coat from the factory, do you treat the wheels after polishing or just keep them polished?

Thank you again gentlemen
Have a great 2015

Roy
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canuck750

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2014, 01:27:45 PM »
Roy

I don't clear coat the aluminum, unless you have right clear for Alloy I wouldn't attempt it. Mercedes used a clear coast system on their rims (pretreatment, base and sealer)  by Standox that bonded to the porous aluminum surface but unfortunately its no longer available. Just keep them clean and the rims will look good for years.

Happy New Year

Jim

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2015, 01:18:16 AM »
It's been over a year since I started this thread, I'm almost at the point were I can't put it off any longer, I will have to start putting it back together.
I tried to find a reasonable valve spring compressor but the ones I could find are huge or hugely expensive so I made one out of a C clamp and a scrap of aluminum for $17 and pulled the valves.
The valves are in pretty good shape for 130,000 miles but the guides are shot, almost 0.3mm side to side play, luckily I had anticipated this and bought a new set.
I tried pounding on one with a brass drift and hammer, all to no effect, what's the secret to getting these out?

I think I found all the parts for the heads, not bad considering they sat in a soggy carton for 20 years.
I have a new set of Giladonis, Big end shells & paint

A couple more questions for the experts
Gasket cement, i seem to recall someone said no cement on the base gasket
What is a good cement for where it's needed?
Are there ''O" rings on every cylinder bolt, where do they go in relation to the washer and nut?
Is it best to cement the valve cover gasket to the cover or to the head.

Thanks in advance.

Roy
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 01:37:58 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Online balvenie

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2015, 03:41:45 AM »
"...........what's the secret to getting these out?"

I'd like to know too ;D
Oz
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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2015, 06:20:02 AM »
"...........what's the secret to getting these out?"

I'd like to know too ;D

Heat. Also some say to grind off the top of the guides' to the stop ring to allow them to be driven down in the same direction as when installing which allegedly reduces galling of the head..

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2015, 07:03:31 AM »
Put it in an oven at 200-250 degrees F. It'll take a bit for the head to heat soak. Put the new guides in the freezer overnight, and install them while the head is still hot.
Dunno about gasket goo, I don't use it unless I have a big floppy gasket with lots of screw holes to line up like the timing case. Then I just use some aerosol spray a gasket on one side.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2015, 09:20:53 AM »

A couple more questions for the experts
Gasket cement, i seem to recall someone said no cement on the base gasket
What is a good cement for where it's needed?
Are there ''O" rings on every cylinder bolt, where do they go in relation to the washer and nut?
Is it best to cement the valve cover gasket to the cover or to the head.

Thanks in advance.

Roy

I don't use any sealer on base or head gaskets. I've posted several times before about what I use where, but basically, Permatex 300 or Aviation on the bottom 1/3 of the timing cover (upper 2/3rds I grease), rear main bearing flange gasket, breather pipe gasket, distributor base gasket. Hondabond 4 on the lower two bolts securing the rear main bearing flange and on the oil return pipe banjo bolt (along with the crush washers). Grease both sides of the sump and rocker cover gaskets - I don't "cement" them to either surface. JB Weld the cam plug.

Cylinder stud o-rings: 2 on the short studs after the base gasket goes on, other four on the long studs under the rocker stand.
Charlie

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2015, 09:31:15 AM »
The valves are in pretty good shape for 130,000 miles but the guides are shot, almost 0.3mm side to side play, luckily I had anticipated this and bought a new set.
I tried pounding on one with a brass drift and hammer, all to no effect, what's the secret to getting these out?

I wouldn't reuse 130k mile valves, no matter how good they look. For $112 you can buy four new valves at MG Cycle. Better than having the head pop off of one and damaging your new Gilardoni cylinder set.

Unless you have a head machine to recut the seats after new guides are installed, it might be best to leave this job to a shop that does.
Charlie

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2015, 11:34:18 PM »
Put it in an oven at 200-250 degrees F. It'll take a bit for the head to heat soak. Put the new guides in the freezer overnight, and install them while the head is still hot.
Dunno about gasket goo, I don't use it unless I have a big floppy gasket with lots of screw holes to line up like the timing case. Then I just use some aerosol spray a gasket on one side.
When I approached SWWMBO she told me it was my head she would roast in the oven  ???
So back to the drawing board. I stuck the nozzle of the heat gun in the exhaust with a scrap of sheet metal over the firing chamber so the hot air came out the inlet, left it on high for about 15 minutes, that did the trick, they drove out nicely with a brass drift.
I wish I could say the same for installing the new ones, they seemed tighter than the old ones even though they came out of the freezer so I had to really pound on them to drive home, I fear I may have to get someone to run a reamer through them.
I looked up my order thinking perhaps I may have ordered oversize by mistake but I don't think so, they should not have been so tight.
14036860   Valve guide, big twins 750-1100
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 09:12:31 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #84 on: February 17, 2015, 03:01:19 AM »
        "..............that did the trick,......".
Onya Roy ;-T
Now I will know when the time comes. I just knew that my GF's fan forced oven would be out of bounds 8)
Oz
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Offline Don G

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2015, 01:53:44 PM »
A propane or natural gas BBQ works good too! ;-T DonG

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2015, 04:35:12 PM »
Thanks Chuck, Charlie and Canuck 750 for all the valuable help provided

[/quote]
Unless you have a head machine to recut the seats after new guides are installed, it might be best to leave this job to a shop that does.
[/quote]

Thanks, I think, you'll have me listening for the rattle of a valve head now  ???  It happened to my Vincent Comet years ago, surprisingly little damage was done.
I took your advice and dropped another $250 into the sink hole, new valves, carb parts and more gaskets. I'm sure there are lot's of other parts that should be replaced like rocker pins. bushes etc but at least they wont require a strip down, I haven't even looked at the gearbox yet but ordered gaskets for that and the rear end.
My old girl has VHB29C S & D carbs, the kit I ordered 52510 doesn't look to have the correct gaskets but I assume MG Cycle know what they are doing. I ordered new floats, I seem to recall some are attacked by Ethanol, mine are green and haven't seen gas for about 25 years. Speaking of which I have a gallon of 25 YO vintage gas, no Ethanol. stinks to high heaven, does it mature with age like Scotch?

I managed to sort out the valve guides, at least the old valves will slide in now although a bit tight I think. I assume whoever does the seats will be able to take care of that

I couldn't see head nuts on MG Cycle, a few of mine are looking rusty thru sitting 20 years in a damp cardboard carton.

A couple of items I know I'm short of is a front engine bolt (I had to saw through it to get the engine out) and also the splined lever that mounts onto the footbrake shaft that pulls on the brake rod, that suffered a similar ending, if anyone has something like that they would sell me.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 04:37:24 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #87 on: February 18, 2015, 04:42:27 PM »
"..........does it mature with age like Scotch?"

 :o :o :o :o :o
 8)
Oz
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #88 on: February 18, 2015, 09:56:11 PM »
... the kit I ordered 52510 doesn't look to have the correct gaskets but I assume MG Cycle know what they are doing. I ordered new floats, I seem to recall some are attacked by Ethanol, mine are green and haven't seen gas for about 25 years. Speaking of which I have a gallon of 25 YO vintage gas, no Ethanol. stinks to high heaven, does it mature with age like Scotch?

I managed to sort out the valve guides, at least the old valves will slide in now although a bit tight I think. I assume whoever does the seats will be able to take care of that

I couldn't see head nuts on MG Cycle, a few of mine are looking rusty thru sitting 20 years in a damp cardboard carton.

A couple of items I know I'm short of is a front engine bolt (I had to saw through it to get the engine out) and also the splined lever that mounts onto the footbrake shaft that pulls on the brake rod, that suffered a similar ending, if anyone has something like that they would sell me.

52510 are the correct carb gaskets kits, you'll actually have a few pieces you won't use.

Your green floats are much preferred over the white ones IMO. You'll be lucky if the white ones don't start to leak very early on.

I might be able to round up some head nuts for you, but it won't be until the weekend. Bitterly cold here the next few days. Might be able to come up with an engine bolt too.

The "splined lever" - do you mean the L shaped piece?

Charlie

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Roy's Eldorado Adventure
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2015, 12:36:22 AM »
52510 are the correct carb gaskets kits, you'll actually have a few pieces you won't use.

Your green floats are much preferred over the white ones IMO. You'll be lucky if the white ones don't start to leak very early on.

I might be able to round up some head nuts for you, but it won't be until the weekend. Bitterly cold here the next few days. Might be able to come up with an engine bolt too.

The "splined lever" - do you mean the L shaped piece?



I was looking for the oblong gasket that goes under the top, Oh, I see it now, i think mine are solid with just holes for the throttle cable

Oh so I wasted my money on the new floats then  ???

The carbs were in quite good shape considering the age but rubber parts fell apart of course, the needles are a bit worn but I can replace those down the road if I need to. I ordered new float needles.


This part, sorry about the scratchy sketch from memory, there is a spline on the shaft with a matching one on the lever and something like a bolt to hold in place, I destroyed the original getting it off.

I'm not sure if I need head nuts yet I will run a tap thru them.
I definitely need the engine bolt, one of my buddies said, "Now Roy, you don't plan on using ready rod, do you?", he'll be looking for it LOL, I have new spacers.

Stay warm,

Roy



  

« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 11:56:53 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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