Anyone want to try our 8V Norge map?

[nikwax]

Waltr, yes, I agree. I find myself riding with a much lighter hand

[BigBlock]

Just loaded this new map from Pete, great improvement.  Cold start and throttle response is spot on, kudos to Pete, Mark and others for helping us folks that are not as keen on producing these maps and making are beloved Guzzi's run so fine. ;-T
Also, can anyone PM me info on where I could throw a few $ there way for there work.

[nikwax]

Waltr, yes, I agree. I find myself riding with a much lighter hand

I just had my throttle cables adjusted today, and that made a big difference in response. So now I'd say that this map is perfect and completely transforms the Norge.


Well, the map and new suspension. Fantastic experience!

[nikwax]

Just back from a two week trip with the Frau and luggage, the motor and chassis were superb. Plenty of power, even passing uphill without massively downshifting. I had to run a tank of no name regular gas and was not able to provoke preignition.


Happy happy happy!

[beetle]

Excellent.

Would those with one of my Norge maps PM which map you currently have, I can let you know when map updates have occurred. I've just sent Waltr a new map with some minor changes to the main fuel map plus a higher rev limit.

[Vasco DG]

Just loaded this new map from Pete, great improvement.  Cold start and throttle response is spot on, kudos to Pete, Mark and others for helping us folks that are not as keen on producing these maps and making are beloved Guzzi's run so fine. ;-T
Also, can anyone PM me info on where I could throw a few $ there way for there work.

No credit to me. I'm just the messenger. Its all Mark's doing.

Pete

[BigBlock]

No credit to me. I'm just the messenger. Its all Mark's doing.

Pete

Still appreciate your messengering (Is that a real word? :D) and the knowledge you supply, Pete.

[beetle]

BigBlock and nikwax, if you want the map update, please PM me your email addresses.

[BigBlock]

PM sent

[nikwax]

I've PM'd as well.

What is the difference with the new map?

[beetle]

New map has changes to the delta-fuel map, main map fuel cut-offs have been changed and the rev limit increased to 8500.

[BigBlock]

Got the map, thanks Mark.  Hope to load it later this week.  Will let you know how she runs.

[bib]

Hello Pete
New to Guzzi and the forum - some mechanical ability and tech savvy ... where do I get this map from and how much is it? willing to give it a try.
Have saved bike's map using Guzzidiag.

[Vasco DG]

Sorry, replied to your PM before I saw this. Send me an email address and I'll flip you the map. If you like it? Donate something to Mark to help defray development costs.

Pete

[canuguzzi]

I have loaded up the latest map. First, I had a great new bike setup and the first service was also very well done. The Norge runs a smooth as silk mirrors are clear at all RPMs and I did not experience stuttering, roughness or anything like that. I did notice that the throttle required more twisting to move along but to be clear, it wasn't that the bike was slow by any means, just that the throttle was not very sensitive.

I followed the instructions to the letter. Here are my observations:

*The throttle position is at 4.80 (engine off of course) where as with the stock map it was 4.70. A TPS reset results in 4.80, not 4.70

* Low RPM is somewhat rougher than stock. Low RPM to me is from idle to 3k. There is some shuddering between 2500 and 3000 that was not present with the stock map. This only happens when the throttle is opened more than halfway but with the stock map there wasn't any regardless of how open the throttle was.

* At 3000 there is less what I call throbbing or very low amplitude "Guzzi" vibes. Now there is a sort of buzz akin to what I've experienced with an in-line 4. That is new. This continues to around 3500 after which it leaves for the most part.

* At 4000 with no acceleration load, the right hand grip buzzes, this is new also. The stock map was dead with no buzz at all. This buzz continues to around 6000 after which it is absent.

* Above 4000 to around 6000 the engine seems smooth but not as much as the stock map. The feel is that there is more going on enginewise whereas with the stock map the engine seemed more relaxed and settled.

* Above 6000 I can discern no difference between the stock map and this latest release.

General observations: The oil cooler fan comes on more often. I took the Norge out with the stock map for a 30 mile run. This is a combination of a short through town trip with 5 stops not involving lights so basically stop, look, go. Then there is about 15 miles of country road with a speed limit if 55 mph and two stops. Then 2 miles of small city with one red light to wait, 4 stop signs. Following that there is freeway riding with posted limits at 55-65 mph. I rode between 55 and 85 with a dash up to 90, taking an off ramp to a stop light. Then easy small town roads with minimal traffic to a stop, idle for 30 seconds, down a gravel drive and engine off.

With the stock map run both before and after the latest release map, the oil cooler fan never came on. In between those runs with the new map, the fan came on after the freeway ride at the stop light and then after the idle at the driveway entrance and then on after engine off for a short time. With engine off right after idle and run down the driveway, the temp reading was 125c. I did not take a temp reading with the stock map but will do so since I am reverting back to stock for now.

Sitting at the light, it felt as if the engine were running warmer than usual. I can't say with 100% accuracy but next run I will shoot the engine with a laser temp reader to compare.

Also, after the freeway portion while at the light, the right cylinder seems to miss just once. I could feel it. It was like the right side turned off and on really fast.This never happened with the stock map, before or since. I've now ridden the stock map after putting it back in and this has not happened again. Perhaps an anomaly?

I did feel the engine more willing to rev in that the tach needle seems to jump quicker between 3500 and 6000 rpms. It isn't that with stock it wouldn't do the same, just that with the new map the throttle seemed more responsive. I could not detect that the Norge was faster or quicker but then those things aren't something I care about much. The more responsive throttle was welcome and it wasn't jerky at all.

Lastly, the throttle position no longer resets to 4.70 and now sits at 4.80 even with the TPS reset. Is there a way to get that back to 4.70?


Update: The throttle position now shows between 4.80 and 5.00 even with the stock map reloaded. It did not do this before, it was 4.70 static. The number jumps from 4.80 to 5.00 back and forth. I'll take it for another ride and see if it settles down afterwards.

[canuguzzi]

Just going through the notes: The idle is lower at 1100 which with stock it is 1250 even.

Added to above observations. I'll report the ride after another stock map reload later today.

[Vasco DG]

How certain are you on the TB balance and the rest of the tune?  The buzziness and vibration sound tune related to me. Interesting.

Oh, and thank you for the comprehensive feedback. It makes issues a lot easier to address.

Pete

[canuguzzi]

How certain are you on the TB balance and the rest of the tune?  The buzziness and vibration sound tune related to me. Interesting.

Oh, and thank you for the comprehensive feedback. It makes issues a lot easier to address.

Pete

I just got back from another run over the same exact route using the stock map. This time the traffic was a bit more and the ambient temps are higher by about 10-15 degress F.

Idle is back up to 1250 now and rock steady. From higher RPMs, it settle down like right now and sits steady. I think the one side miss with the new map must have been a one time thing.

Gone are the buzzes and it has returned to nearly vibe less running. The shudder below 3k even with wide open throttle is gone. The right bar is now as quiet as the left, very noticeable from the non-stock map.

I do have more popping with the stock map but that never bothered me anyway, last thing I want to sound like is a Honda Accord. ;)

The slower throttle response is back but in traffic it is sort of easier for through traffic navigation. That can very well be just a matter if getting used to it. I could not detect any slower acceleration though, it still runs as fast with either map. I plan to get some GPS readings to confirm that.

Were I to quantify throttle response better I would say the new map is crisper while my stock map is muted although not paying attention to that, the actual acceleration is equal as far as I can tell.

The engine temps are the same, 125c but the ambient as I said is also 10-15 degrees F higher now so how to compare that? Fan did kick on just as I parked.

My throttle position is still 4.80 instead of 4.70. I did not manipulate the throttle when I first loaded the new map, it just changed from 4.70 to 4.80 and hasn't returned to the lower number. Could be anything I guess and I'm not sure how much difference that bit makes.

In summary and I am trying not to draw conclusions, just provide observations (and they apply only to my bike) I rode the map it came on 400-500 mile days and vibes were never a hint of concern. Upon loading the new map, the difference was noticeable right as I left the driveway.

I do have the map you sent me prior to the latest update, I'll load that tomorrow and run the same route to see what happens.

As luck would have it though, as the outside temps got higher, the bigger bugs came out. Darn if one didn't wait until I just flicked up the face shield for a second to wack me square in the nose. Do they aim or just happen to manage that? ;D

[beetle]

The slower throttle compensation was built in after I had complaints of 'abrupt' throttle in traffic and by some folks who cornered on a trailing throttle. I use it on all 8V maps now. If anyone prefers the old style throttle, I can fix that.

4.7 or 4.8 TPS makes no difference.

[canuguzzi]

The slower throttle compensation was built in after I had complaints of 'abrupt' throttle in traffic and by some folks who cornered on a trailing throttle. I use it on all 8V maps now. If anyone prefers the old style throttle, I can fix that.

4.7 or 4.8 TPS makes no difference.

Thanks for that info on the TPS. IMHO, I like the stock brand of throttle response because it makes for a more relaxed riding style. If I were on a Griso for example, quicker response is better I'd imagine.

I do think that the short runs I made are not indicative of what observations I might have over a longer period of time. I want to really make that point so that anyone reading my comments takes them as a snapshot, not the whole movie.

I have the rest of this week and through next to run the map. I was thinking of doing it a day at a time instead of ride/switch map/ride method. I did try to keep notes of even little details and when doing that sometimes little things you never cared about come up.

The word I was looking for was "cleaner" as far as throttle response goes. Your map is quite a bit "cleaner" than the stock map is that makes any sense. Sort of like someone talking with a mouth full of popcorn as opposed to not which is what I probably sound like right now so I am going to shut up and go ride again. ;D

[nikwax]

I just loaded the new map yesterday and drove around town a bit to get first impressions:

Cold started right off. I don't think the bike has ever done that. Nice!

Idle speed is around 1100 rpm.

The hanging return to idle (whatever that is called) seems a bit more pronounced. Maybe that was just when the motor was cold?

My first reaction to driving around town was "smooooooooooooooth". I really had that sense of turbine winding smoothness up through the revs.


Again, many thank for creating and improving this. It truly is like being gifted a new bike.


I'll see if I can get some serious backroad time in today with my passenger. I have a winding uphill route that is fun and useful.

[BigBlock]

Loaded the same map nikwax did a few days ago and have come up with the same results as he did.  Cold start is spot on as is driving around town or low rpm situations (parking lots etc..) Still a little decal pop but nothing I'm concerned with. Its great riding this bike when she runs this good. Like nikwax says it truly is like being gifted a new bike.

Again thanks to Mark and the rest of the crew who puts their time and effort into these maps. ;-T

[beetle]

The hanging return to idle (whatever that is called) seems a bit more pronounced. Maybe that was just when the motor was cold?

This seems to be a problem that affects some bikes. I haven't yet figured out what's causing it. Would you please let me know if it occurs when the engine is hot?

Anybody else getting idle hangs?

[Vasco DG]

This seems to be a problem that affects some bikes. I haven't yet figured out what's causing it. Would you please let me know if it occurs when the engine is hot?

Anybody else getting idle hangs?

It only happens on mine before its up to temperature Mark. I can ride quite a long distance in cool weather and the idle will continue to hang until I've done a bit of stop/start traffic and the oil temp has come up. It has to be associated with the stupid over-cooling issue.

Pete

[beetle]

Pete, do you think it's the stepper causing it? If it is, we're kinda buggered, because it's parameters aren't editable. yet.

[Vasco DG]

Stepper seems logical but could it be a temporary lean condition in that 'Sort of warm up' area before the engine reaches 95*C? I do tend to think stepper though because my experience is that when I arrive in Queanbeyan, about 25km from home, I clutch it at the first roundabout and the idle hangs at about 2,000. Accelerate round the roundabout and on to the next one up by all the hideous fast food joints and usually I have to actually come to a standstill to allow a stream of monstrous fatties smearing their faces with lard to circumnavigate the second roundabout. If I slip it in to neutral the idle will hang for one, maybe two seconds and then slowly drop back to 1200. If I keep the clutch in and the bike in gear the idle will remain high. Everything points towards stepper.

Once properly warm I still get the slight idle rise when I pull the clutch in at a standstill but I know we can't do anything about that as its hard coded and it doesn't worry me because I know that. If we could work out exactly what causes the hanging idle it likewise wouldn't bother me, (In all honesty it doesn't really bother me much now! ;D). What I find so irksome, as probably do you, is the fact that we don't know what causes it and why it does it!

Once I've traversed Queanbeyan dodging the single mums pushing strollers full of five kids with different fathers, the groups of the chronically work-shy and the mental defectives the bike is usually warm enough to behave *Normally*, ie it just does the 'Clutch-Pull Lift' of 200rpm.

Pete

[dddd]

I'm pretty sure it is the stepper motor. I have placed a plastic lawn mower fuel shut off valve in the line between the air box and the stepper motor (extended the line and valve to under the seat) and can confirm once the bike is warmed up I can shut the valve off and the bike perform's perfectly with zero idle hang and basically no decel burble through the exhaust
And yes it definitely only does it when hot

[pauldaytona]

I'm pretty sure it is the stepper motor. I have placed a plastic lawn mower fuel shut off valve in the line between the air box and the stepper motor (extended the line and valve to under the seat) and can confirm once the bike is warmed up I can shut the valve off and the bike perform's perfectly with zero idle hang and basically no decel burble through the exhaust
And yes it definitely only does it when hot

The stepper is not the cause, it just does what the ecu tells it to do. That shutting it off makes a difference just tells us the stepper is opened by the ecu at some moments we don't like. All result of the conditions and parameters the ecu sees.
I have it too. But I noticed the clutch switch doesn't do it's work, even when pulled. When at redlight, idle stays high, until I goto nutral. When I goto first gear then again, idle stays down.

[beetle]

I don't have the issue. IIRC it happened once on a map I was testing many months ago. If I had the hang, and it was repeatable, I could try a few things to try to eliminate it.

Paul, if we could figure out what why & when the ECU commands the stepper (ie, what conditions), we might be able to change it's functional parameters.

[Vasco DG]

The stepper is not the cause, it just does what the ecu tells it to do. That shutting it off makes a difference just tells us the stepper is opened by the ecu at some moments we don't like. All result of the conditions and parameters the ecu sees.
I have it too. But I noticed the clutch switch doesn't do it's work, even when pulled. When at redlight, idle stays high, until I goto nutral. When I goto first gear then again, idle stays down.

Yah, that's what I meant Paul. It isn't the stepper itself but the command to the stepper that is the issue.

Pete