Co-pilot crashed German flight.

[molly]

Officials have announced that the co-pilot of the German Airbus that crashed in the French Alps this week was in sole control and intentionally started its descent.
Another downed airliner possibly with a relatively simple explanation this time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

[dilligaf]

I think we are being a little quick here.  :BEER:
Matt

[Tobit]

I think we are being a little quick here.  :BEER:
Matt

My thoughts after hearing the prosecutor's report this morning.  Pilot pounding on the door trying to get back into the cockpit, the sound of the Copilot's breathing on the CVR.  Maybe that's the story, a mass murder suicide, but more will be revealed. 

Is it SOP in France that a prosecutor be involved already?  Or is that another term for investigator?

Tobit

[Lannis]

Is it SOP in France that a prosecutor be involved already?  Or is that another term for investigator?

Tobit

The French have a system that is nothing like ours for investigating crimes; Napoleonic Code stuff vs. English common law.   

A "judge"-level guy takes control of the whole investigation leading to a prosecution ....

Lannis

[acogoff]

    All sound very convenient for all but the dead,- the airline, investigators, airbus. Not sure their claim of how breathing is monitored. A miss adjusted boom mic or extremely heavy breathing could possibly be picked up, but I doubt it.

[smartin108]

Were it here, we would wait 6 months for an NTSB report.

[ken farr]

Were it here, we would wait 6 months for an NTSB report.

Yep, and it would be done correctly, based on factual evidence.


kjf

[oldbike54]

 Waiting on Kirby 1923 to weigh in .

  Dusty

[molly]

Yep, and it would be done correctly, based on factual evidence.


kjf

I'm confident the French authorities will do a good job this is not some remote east european/asian scenario. The flight recorder has already been analysed and the picture is becoming clearer by the hour.
One thing for sure the Germans will be mortified if the co-pilot is to blame they put great store on the abilities of their workers and will find it difficult to comprehend that a well trained employee could do such a thing.

[redrider90]

Were it here, we would wait 6 months for an NTSB report.

I think everybody in Europe and elsewhere is pretty jumpy right know. With the Russians downing a Malaysian jet and then the sudden and disappearance of the other one. Then the Air Asia drops out of the sky and now this one. I can see why they are releasing this info now. Everybody was already speculating on how the computer was overridden and only the descent parameters were changed: nothing else. It looks like a Duck right now. I think that this looks overwhelming and hence they want to reduce speculation.

[Gliderjohn]

My understanding is that they have everything from the voice recorder but the data recorder is missing it's memory card.
GliderJohn

[youcanrunnaked]

I understand the reluctance to rush to  judgment, but the sound recorder has the pilot trying to break into the locked cockpit without success, that model Airbus needs to have someone inside the cockpit override the combination lock on the outside in order to lock out the pilot, and the plane was deliberately put into a dive over the Alps. 

What else could it be but a suicide/mass murder?   ???  I am open to alternative theories, but....

[kirkemon]

As I understand, when one pilot leaves the cockpit another crew member is suppose to go in the cockpit so there is always two people in the cockpit. Somehow this didn't happen.  ???

[Gliderjohn]

Quote from kirkemon:

As I understand, when one pilot leaves the cockpit another crew member is suppose to go in the cockpit so there is always two people in the cockpit. Somehow this didn't happen.

That may be an individual airline policy. In "Flying" magazine a airline pilot writes a monthly column and I recall him mentioning leaving the cockpit in several different columns and he never mentioned that anyway.
GliderJohn

[redrider90]

I understand the reluctance to rush to  judgment, but the sound recorder has the pilot trying to break into the locked cockpit without success, that model Airbus needs to have someone inside the cockpit override the combination lock on the outside in order to lock out the pilot, and the plane was deliberately put into a dive over the Alps. 

What else could it be but a suicide/mass murder?   ???  I am open to alternative theories, but....

Hey naked we agree!! I am sorry it is about something this tragic. It really looks like nothing else but a sick man taking it down.

[Kev m]

As I understand, when one pilot leaves the cockpit another crew member is suppose to go in the cockpit so there is always two people in the cockpit. Somehow this didn't happen.  ???

One article I read this morning stated that this is US policy, but not yet adopted by EU airlines.

[LongRanger]

I have fond memories of riding from Nice to Munich several years ago. We rode through these very mountains and stopped in Digne and Barcalonette, both local to this story. We reached Munich on 9/11, so this week's crash is a little weird.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

As I understand, when one pilot leaves the cockpit another crew member is suppose to go in the cockpit so there is always two people in the cockpit. Somehow this didn't happen.  ???

According to NYT today.. The two persons in cockpit rule is a US law... It is not in place in Europe/other parts of the world.. But it is corporate policy for many non-US airlines.. Just so happens Germanwings is not one of those


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[azguzzirep]

One thing for sure the Germans will be mortified if the co-pilot is to blame they put great store on the abilities of their workers and will find it difficult to comprehend that a well trained employee could do such a thing.

Since I'm living in Germany, here what I hear.

First, it is tragic, regardless of who's plane it was.

Second, the thought of the 14 school kids and their two teachers dying hits them hard. It is awful for them as a whole.

They think, as well as I, the copilot is (was) a total arseloch (a**hole). If he wanted to die, he should have just gone off and offed himself, and not take the lives of 149 innocent lives, too.

There is a lot of 'I will never fly again' knee jerk, over reactionary talk, too.

Tom

[Markcarovilli]

Tom

it is tragic whether the pilot is German or of any other nation.  No one is immune to such an act as this. 

Mark

[Kiwi_Roy]

I don't think the two persons in the cockpit rule would have changed much, the scumbag already decided to kill 150 innocent people, bumping off the pilot first would be easy.

[rodekyll]

I understand the reluctance to rush to  judgment, but the sound recorder has the pilot trying to break into the locked cockpit without success, that model Airbus needs to have someone inside the cockpit override the combination lock on the outside in order to lock out the pilot, and the plane was deliberately put into a dive over the Alps. 

What else could it be but a suicide/mass murder?   ???  I am open to alternative theories, but....

I just read a statement from the french prosecutor that says the official conclusion [so far] is that the co-pilot indeed deliberately crashed the aircraft.  No clues why so far.  Very sad.  Possible theories:

suicidal
assassination of a passenger
terrorism
someone else unaccounted for on the flight deck was in control
co-pilot incapacitated

I have no speculation or conclusions -- just grief.

[pauldaytona]

I just read that a few ailines changed the policy so that there always have to be two persons in the cockpit.

[Murray]

My thoughts after hearing the prosecutor's report this morning.  Pilot pounding on the door trying to get back into the cockpit, the sound of the Copilot's breathing on the CVR.  Maybe that's the story, a mass murder suicide, but more will be revealed. 

Is it SOP in France that a prosecutor be involved already?  Or is that another term for investigator?

Tobit

Or the copilot has a massive medical emergency for an undetected pre-existing condition. Aircraft accident investigations take a long time for a reason to me this is simply speculation.

[Kev m]

Or the copilot has a massive medical emergency for an undetected pre-existing condition. Aircraft accident investigations take a long time for a reason to me this is simply speculation.

That wouldn't explain why he manually engaged the lock to disable the pilot's code to get back into the cabin.

Nor why he supposedly manually redirected the plain to the ground.

[oldbike54]

That wouldn't explain why he manually engaged the lock to disable the pilot's code to get back into the cabin.

Nor why he supposedly manually redirected the plain to the ground.

 Yep  :+1

  Dusty

[Dogwalker]

I don't think the two persons in the cockpit rule would have changed much,

Actually, there have been several cases of suicidal pilots that managed to crash the airplane with the other pilot still in the cockpit, and none that have been stopped. To mantain the aircraft in air is more difficult than to make it crash, so who want to crash it has always the advantage.

[redrider90]

I don't think the two persons in the cockpit rule would have changed much, the scumbag already decided to kill 150 innocent people, bumping off the pilot first would be easy.

You nor I nor anybody has a clue whether he was going to bump the pilot off first. And just how easy is it for the co-pilot to bump off the pilot? The scenarios with the pilot staying in the cabin are countless. Maybe the co-pilot just waits until another flight. Fact is the guy could have been a crazy chicken little waiting for his moment where he was in total control and did not have to confront another person.

[Kentktk]

   All sound very convenient for all but the dead,- the airline, investigators, airbus. Not sure their claim of how breathing is monitored. A miss adjusted boom mic or extremely heavy breathing could possibly be picked up, but I doubt it.

CVR`s are very sensitive, they can pick up the sound of a circuit breaker tripping or switch movements

[drbone641]

Copilot hit the HardLock. On the Boeing its good for 30 minutes. That makes the exclusion deliberate.