2015 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone - Questions from a New Owner

[Idontwantapickle]

Welcome Moss! Nice bike. ;-T
But your profile picture made me spew tea on my desk. I love that show!! You are definitely the right kind of weird for a Guzzi.
Hunter

[Cam3512]

Congrats on the new Stone.  Love the colour :drool

I agree.  Wish the side covers were green as well.

[moss]

Welcome Moss! Nice bike. ;-T
But your profile picture made me spew tea on my desk. I love that show!! You are definitely the right kind of weird for a Guzzi.
Hunter

Haha. I'm glad you got a kick out of that.  It was...pretty much still is my favourite show. Sadly it's over.

[moss]

Hi All!

May I get back to the question of the proper adjustment of the clutch cable? I have read several discussions regarding this here at Wildguzzi, but still I am not sure I have understood the right procedure: It was recommended that a free play of at least 1/8 inch (aboit 4 mm) should be achieved. But: how do you define "free play"? Is it that it feels as if nothing is moved, activated, or put under pull, or is "free play" actually that, meaning, if I pull the handle the lever at the gearcase does not move for some millimeters?

I have set the clutch in a way that I sat on the Stone, engine not running, first gear selected, clutch handle fully pulled. Moving around the bike I let go the handle until I felt the engagement of the clutch. This point then I put into the middle of the handle movement. The shifting is better than anytime before, no problems at all, be the engine cold or warm. But I fear the clutch release bearing could be damaged.

I am going to contact Moto Guzzi "customer support" and try to find out this answer.  But from what I've read is that there shouldn't be any free play at all... I don't think that's true though. Free play would be the space you pull the clutch lever in before it starts to actually disengage the clutch, if I'm not mistaken. 

[Cam3512]

Free play is basically the slack in the cable before anything starts to move.  You can feel it at the lever. It should move in some with LIGHT pressure BEFORE it pulls on the cable to actuate the arm on tranny. Turning the adjuster out away from the lever will make cable tighter, turning it in toward the lever will increase slack.

MG Customer support won't have a clue.

Make sense?  

[Vasco DG]

Think what you are trying to achieve.

When you pull the lever on the handlebar it pulls on a cable that acts on another lever that will them pres on the clutch engagement mechanism.

Within this mechanism there is a flat, Torrington type, bearing that allows the actuating mechanism, (Basically a pushrod.) to spin at crank speed as it is pushed into the pressure plate that runs in the flywheel.

When the clutch us not engaged though you don't want the pushrod and thrust bearing to be spinning and you definitely don't want them to be spinning under load as the bearing's lubrication is rudimentary, very hit and miss. Not a problem though if everything is adjusted correctly.

What you want is for the thrust bearing to have no load on when the clutch is releases but an absolute minimum of free play before the pushrod starts depressing the pressure plate.

Without making it too complex, peel the boot over the clutch lever/perch back and you'll see a knurled adjuster with a locking ring, also knurled, that acts as a lock-nut on the adjuster.

Loosen the lock-ring and then wind the adjuster OUT of the perch until when you pull the lever you only just begin to feel resistance in the mechanism when the gap between the lever and the perch is 2-3mm or between 1/16th and 1/8th of an inch. Then lock up the lock-ring so the adjuster can't move. Get the engine hot and see if the free play changes, it shouldn't appreciably.

With the gear engagement issue? This is a common problem with NEW V7's. The gearboxes are very tight when new and the bearings will tend to stop the shafts spinning when the clutch is pulled in. To combat this engage the clutch and press down, gently but firmly, on the pedal and then gently feather the clutch lever while continuing to press on the lever. You will feel the dogs on the pinions drop into engagement and at that point you can pull the clutch back in before taking your weight off the gear lever and pulling off conventionally. You'll find this becomes a lot less necessary after the first couple of gearbox oil changes.

Overall, don't panic and if you do remember to blame the mice.....

Pete

[fossil]

Pete,

thank you. This is a great and understandable explanation.

[moss]

So I've put about 300 miles on the bike so far, and just as of this weekend noticed that once the bike is nice and warmed up (after about 50 miles or so) the way that the dealership prepped the clutch on this bike is dead wrong.  It was really really difficult to get the bike to go into first even with feathering the clutch when I would come to a stop. And kicking it a half step up into neutral? Forget it. It felt absolutely DEAD at my foot, not moving anywhere.  I also noticed that if I didn't hold the brakes at the light, even with the clutch lever fully pulled to the grip, it would still move! It really pisses me off that they would not take the time to prep the bike correctly and let a brand spanking new motorcycle out onto the road like this.  My options are, adjust the clutch myself, or drive ~30 minutes or so to them and have them do it.. which I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to charge me for doing it.  It seems Pete's guide is a good one to follow for making the clutch adjustment.  I am just a bit nervous to mess something up.  If anyone can add anything to Pete's already awesome steps, or add any words of encouragement, I'd appreciate it :)

[Kev m]

I think the factory spec might not allow it to always fully release when warm. Or its just the way they too often come from the factory and dealers too often don't check/reset.

Either way it takes about a minute for you to tweak it.

Take away a little free play and you will increase the amount of release that occurs when you hold the lever. Just make sure that there is still SOME freeplay when you let go of the lever after it is adjusted so that it fully releases at the grip and you'll be fine.

[Howard R]

Another hint might be to try pushing the bike back & forth a couple of feet with the engine off and check the "feel" of the resistance in neutral versus in gear with the clutch lever pulled, and try slipping it in & out of gear as well.  That will tell you if your clutch is not releasing all the way with your current adjustment.  (Sounds like that might be the case.)

Good luck,

Howard

[krglorioso]

Moss:  It's a curse to be only 27 years of age.  So young, so much enthusiasm, and still you have to wait another 50 years before you can even think of wearing red suspenders.

Ralph

[fossil]

Oh-Kay....

After reading Pete´s (Vasco DG) good explanation I took another look at my clutch arrangement. Try it this way: (engine not running!)

1) remove the right cover (hiding the battery). Remove the rubber boot from the adjusting mechanism at the handle (shove it out of the way).
2) a cable runs beneath the battery, shove it to the outer side of the battery. So you can take a good look at the clutch actuation at the rear side of the gearbox.
3) go to the left side of the bike, lay on the seat, so your left hand can reach the clutch handle, and you can see the clutch actuation at the gearbox (you should not let a second person manipulate the handle, you need the feel).
4) identify the parts of the clutch actuation. For this you may pull and release the handle. If you don´t see much, get a torchlight. If you still not see much, get your reading glasses (I had to...).
5) What do you see? At the rear side of the gearbox there is a lever running vertically. It is quite long. On the lower side it is hinged between two bosses at the gearbox, at the upper side the clutch cable engages. Near the hinge there is a coil spring, which pushes the whole array into its idle position, when not manipulated, and a plunger coming out of the gearbox. This plunger is pushed into the gearbox by the lever if you pull the clutch handle. And as the plunger is not connected to the lever here the adjustment is important.
6) Now the adjustment you want to achieve: If the handle is in idle position (not pulled) the lever shall not touch the plunger. You can see and feel the moment when the lever touches the plunger. Adjust the cable at the handle so that there are few millimetres of free play at the handle´s end until the plunger gets engaged.
7) Test drive the bike, and when it´s warmed up properly, check the adjustment again.

My gear showed exactly the issues like yours. Now the gear change is butter smooth.

[Kev m]

Oh-Kay....

After reading Pete´s (Vasco DG) good explanation I took another look at my clutch arrangement. Try it this way: (engine not running!)

<snip>

My gear showed exactly the issues like yours. Now the gear change is butter smooth.

So that did the trick ... I'm not surprised!

Cool  ;-T

[Cam3512]

So that did the trick ... I'm not surprised!

Cool  ;-T

This was not the OP.  Wonder if he's tried the  EASY adjustment....

[Kev m]

This was not the OP.  Wonder if he's tried the  EASY adjustment....

Yeah, I know, but I thought Fossil too had posted about needing an adjustment.

Edit - looks like I've confused him with someone else though... easy since it feels like there have been a slew of people posting this problem over the past few months...

[fossil]

Yes, I did post the same problem earlier in this thread. Pete showed me the right way to proceed, I simply described how I did it "in praxi".

[Kev m]

Yes, I did post the same problem earlier in this thread. Pete showed me the right way to proceed, I simply described how I did it "in praxi".

Nice to know that even if I might be going crazy, I'm not completely out of it.  :D :BEER: :D

[moss]

Moss:  It's a curse to be only 27 years of age.  So young, so much enthusiasm, and still you have to wait another 50 years before you can even think of wearing red suspenders.

Ralph

Ralph, you're damn right. If I only I had the wisdom of a 77 year old at my ripe young age, I wouldn't buy motorcycles off of crappy dealers :)

[moss]

Oh-Kay....

After reading Pete´s (Vasco DG) good explanation I took another look at my clutch arrangement. Try it this way: (engine not running!)

1) remove the right cover (hiding the battery). Remove the rubber boot from the adjusting mechanism at the handle (shove it out of the way).
2) a cable runs beneath the battery, shove it to the outer side of the battery. So you can take a good look at the clutch actuation at the rear side of the gearbox.
3) go to the left side of the bike, lay on the seat, so your left hand can reach the clutch handle, and you can see the clutch actuation at the gearbox (you should not let a second person manipulate the handle, you need the feel).
4) identify the parts of the clutch actuation. For this you may pull and release the handle. If you don´t see much, get a torchlight. If you still not see much, get your reading glasses (I had to...).
5) What do you see? At the rear side of the gearbox there is a lever running vertically. It is quite long. On the lower side it is hinged between two bosses at the gearbox, at the upper side the clutch cable engages. Near the hinge there is a coil spring, which pushes the whole array into its idle position, when not manipulated, and a plunger coming out of the gearbox. This plunger is pushed into the gearbox by the lever if you pull the clutch handle. And as the plunger is not connected to the lever here the adjustment is important.
6) Now the adjustment you want to achieve: If the handle is in idle position (not pulled) the lever shall not touch the plunger. You can see and feel the moment when the lever touches the plunger. Adjust the cable at the handle so that there are few millimetres of free play at the handle´s end until the plunger gets engaged.
7) Test drive the bike, and when it´s warmed up properly, check the adjustment again.

My gear showed exactly the issues like yours. Now the gear change is butter smooth.

I am going to try this before bringing it to the dealer.  Thanks so much for your input.

[SmithSwede]

First of all Moss, welcome to Guzzi world.   You have excellent tastes and a beautiful bike.  

Fear not--your V7 will just get better and better as you add on the miles, get little adjustments sorted out, and get used to it.  

If you don't mind, here's a question for you.  Why did you pick the Guzzi V7 Stone?  You say you researched a lot.  What appealed to you? I'm always curious about the sociological aspects of motorcycling.  Why not a GSXR something?   Harley?  Or a Bonnevile?  Just curious.  

[moss]

First of all Moss, welcome to Guzzi world.   You have excellent tastes and a beautiful bike.  

Fear not--your V7 will just get better and better as you add on the miles, get little adjustments sorted out, and get used to it.  

If you don't mind, here's a question for you.  Why did you pick the Guzzi V7 Stone?  You say you researched a lot.  What appealed to you? I'm always curious about the sociological aspects of motorcycling.  Why not a GSXR something?   Harley?  Or a Bonnevile?  Just curious.  

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome!  I love the bike despite the experience I've had so far with the dealer.  I researched a lot of bikes mainly based on appearance.  It seems shallow, I know, but I wanted something that was simple on the eye, and essentially a naked bike.  I'm coming from a 1972 Honda CB450 as my first bike. I LOVED that bike, and if I had the time to restore it and add modern parts to make it more smooth of a ride, I definitely would, but I don't have the space or time for that. To answer your question about other bikes: In my opinion, all Harley's look and sound the same. They have a style that they haven't really changed in many many years, and it just doesn't appeal to me - Not to mention most of their rider base are all older, heavier set guys trying to relive their glory days a bit too late.  Sport bikes are not really my thing either in terms of looks, speed, etc.  I was looking for a bike that I could easily cruise around town with, but if I needed to take somewhat of a long trip, I could do that as well, and the V7 Stone was the bike. 

I would also say that price was a major factor in this.  The V7 Stone is an absolutely beautiful motorcycle, and really affordable I initially had my eyes set on a Ducati Sport Classic 1000.  Unfortunately, they stopped making them, which drove the price WAY up (if you can even find them now) and I think that was a bad move on their part. I think that bike was just a tad bit before its time.  If Ducati still made those for the same price that they were selling them for back in ~'08 -- I think they would be making a killing now.

Really what sparked my interest to begin with in getting a new bike (besides riding my cb450 for 30 minutes and pushing it for another 30) was seeing a 2013 Triumph Thruxton at a local motorcycle shop.  Brooklands green, cafe racer style, looked clean as hell. I test rode it, and liked it, but it didn't compare to the way the V7 test rode.  I was hesitant to do either one at first (I started looking LAST year) because of the reputation of British cars and Italian cars, but figured I'd shoot the dice on the V7 stone.

The only way I would ever change my mind about the V7 stone is if Ducati still made the Sport Classic 1000. 

Old school looks, modern feel, naked, classic, simple. That's the way I like things :)

[ponti_33609]

older, heavier set guys

Are you sure you researched Guzzi's?   :D

 :BEER:

[pyoungbl]

The Sport Classic really is a sharp looking bike.  You would be happy to ride one for very short jaunts around the local watering holes, just to be seen.  Count yourself lucky you did not buy one because the maintenance would shock you.  Even the two valve desmo heads are going to cost close to $1K for a routine service and, as I recall, that's every 7,500 miles for that vintage.  Clutch baskets and plates only last about 15K miles so that's another $500 or so.  After owning four Ducks I moved on.

Peter Y.

[moss]

The Sport Classic really is a sharp looking bike.  You would be happy to ride one for very short jaunts around the local watering holes, just to be seen.  Count yourself lucky you did not buy one because the maintenance would shock you.  Even the two valve desmo heads are going to cost close to $1K for a routine service and, as I recall, that's every 7,500 miles for that vintage.  Clutch baskets and plates only last about 15K miles so that's another $500 or so.  After owning four Ducks I moved on.

Peter Y.

I've heard Ducati's were expensive, I guess it's safe to assume they mean maintenance-wise.  I'm glad I went with the Guzzi for sure now hah.  Never did get to test ride one, liked the bike just for the look. 


 

[pyoungbl]

Moss, please think about riding over to the Virginia rally in June.  There is some info about it elsewhere on this site.  Bottom line:  Willville is a pretty decent camping spot (OK, not a 5 star hotel...just motorcycle camping) very close to the Blue Ridge Parkway.  In terms of motorcycle riding it's a very nice location.  You could get to know some of the 'characters' who post here, share ideas about bikes, and generally enjoy a low key event.  Ambogirl has a bike like yours and I suspect there will be a few other V7 owners. 
http://vaguzzi.com/

Peter Y.

[Kev m]

So much to poke fun at.... Where to start. I'll get back to the Harley comment tomorrow with two photos... Someone else already got the fat Guzzi guy joke... The Sport Classics were beautiful but got maximum plastic tank suckage... And yes maintenance can be costly (I didn't let Jenn get one until she finished residency lol)... There's a lot to like about a Thruxton, but you chose well.

Come over the bridges and join us for a NJ breakfast/event...

[moss]

So much to pie fun at.... Where to start. I'll get back to the Harley comment tomorrow with two photos... Someone else already got the fat Guzzi guy joke... The Sport Classics were beautiful but got maximum plastic tank suckage... And yes maintenance can be costly (I didn't let Jeff get one until she finished residency lol)... There's a lot to like about a Thruxton, but you chose well.

Come over the bridges and join us for a NJ breakfast/event...

I hope I didn't offend anyone with the Harley comments, just not my type of bike I suppose :D

When is the next breakfast meetup? I am going to the dealership this Saturday to have them go over everything, so hopefully it's not this weekend.

In addition to the clutch not being adjusted correctly, I want them to check to see if there is a MAP update...

Anyone know about how pipes should change color? I know they are supposed to, or they can turn blue, but on my bike the left one is turning blue and the right one is a slight shade of gold. This is right where the pipe comes out of the engine. I've read a little about this, and some say it's a MAP update.. and for one guy it was bad lambda sensors/o2 sensors. 

On the other 2015 v7 at the dealers, both pipes were equally blue, and the bike did seem to ride a bit different than mine, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyone know why the pipes might turn blue on one side and not on the other?

[Loftness]

Pete, when you got your moto guzzi, did it come with 2 washers that the dealer couldn't tell you about in the bag with the owners manual & warranty info?

Sorry, I haven't read the entire post yet but those washers are spacers for the stock mirrors.  If they're not used it's possible to snap the mirror receptacle from over-tightening.

The cable routing may have changed a bit, but the rubber heat shield cylinders used to only come standard on the Stone and Special and not the Racers, for whatever reason.  They do suffice for keeping the cables intact from what I've seen.  You can also add some heat tape to it for insurance.  I've gotten quite good and getting my hands in there to prep that for new bikes.  There are also routing hooks underneath you can use. 

Enjoy the new bike!

[Kev m]

I hope I didn't offend anyone with the Harley comments, just not my type of bike I suppose :D

Ha ha, no not this crowd. You're more likely to offend them with the fat jokes (cause that's a Guzzi stereotype too) than with Harley jokes (half here seem to hate Harleys).

I was referring to your comment "In my opinion, all Harley's look and sound the same."

I was going to retort with do you really think THIS:



Looks like this:



And those are both current models.

I could say:



and



The similarity ends at the motors, and even they are different.

Anyway, no biggie... I love my Guzzis like I love my Harleys...

When is the next breakfast meetup? I am going to the dealership this Saturday to have them go over everything, so hopefully it's not this weekend.

I'm not sure when the next Breakfast meet is, probably in June.

The last one was right before the Gathering of the Nortons.

This month we've got a campout the 15th-17th.

Keep an eye on the Breakfast/Lunch section here:

http://mgnocnj.forumcircle.com/index.php

In addition to the clutch not being adjusted correctly, I want them to check to see if there is a MAP update...

Anyone know about how pipes should change color? I know they are supposed to, or they can turn blue, but on my bike the left one is turning blue and the right one is a slight shade of gold. This is right where the pipe comes out of the engine. I've read a little about this, and some say it's a MAP update.. and for one guy it was bad lambda sensors/o2 sensors. 

On the other 2015 v7 at the dealers, both pipes were equally blue, and the bike did seem to ride a bit different than mine, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyone know why the pipes might turn blue on one side and not on the other?

Well, the clutch SHOULD be an easy thing for them to do (or for you to do in your garage or on the side of the road in 30 seconds). But since I haven't seen one they set-up right YET, I won't hold my breath.

As for the Map, I would think you should have the most recent because it's so new, and probably only because it is so new they might still check without giving you grief (unless you've scheduled the first service with them, then no problem they'll definitely check). I'll tell you the story of how rude Eraldo was to me when I asked about having them check the map a year after I bought mine.

As for the pipes, yeah, generally they blue pretty equally. If one side is different there's a chance you might have an exhaust leak on one side or there COULD be a problem with one of the 02 sensors. I would suspect they'd be willing to check that out.

Best of luck with it...

[moss]

So I went down to the dealers on Saturday and it was a more pleasant experience than I thought it would be. I may not have gotten all the answers I'm looking for but i got my clutch adjusted and some other issues cleared up. One thing that is still concerning me is what i previously referred to as the bluing of only one of the pipes, i actually meant the headers.. And wanted to upload some pics for you guys to check out. The service manager at FBF said the other one would eventually turn blue... So i did another 200 mile ride but the right side is still a slight gold whereas the left header is turning a nice cool blue. I am mainly concerned something is out of whack. One thing i noticed more on my bike vs the demo is when taking off out of first and when coming to a stop, i am really noticing the bike pulling from side to side. I should've had Fabio test ride it but didnt think to ask (it was a bit rainy on Sat. Morning) - again, Ive read that because of the way the cylinders are that this is a normal thing.

Front:

Left side:

Right side:


It may be my OCD/paranoia, but you guys are the experts. Im really anticipating one if the NJ breakfast meetups so that i can ask one of you guys to take this thing for a ride and give me your input - but i havent let my concerns hinder my riding so far, i was "tearing it up" on my 200 mile ride, i think the fastest i got up to was ~80 mph on 611.. Whats the top speed for this bike anyway? At 80 mph i felt like i was asking it to do too much lol

I did hit some twisties on the back roads going towards Bethlehem that really showed me just how well this bike really handles.. I was smiling the WHOLE time around the corners :D