Just in time!

[Vasco DG]

Rollerised my Griso this morning. I thought it had been behaving a little less enthusiastically recently and sure enough the tappets were just beginning to fail. 90,000Km, not bad . Bloody glad I bought my C Kit a couple of years back. They are not stock her at the moment.

All back together and good as gold now!

Pete

[Muzz]

Good timing!

That could have been expensive.

[Vasco DG]

It could indeed. I've just finished a crank up rebuild on Mark S's motor after it first did its tappets and then because it wasn't caught in time it fed wreckage through the bottom end. He now owns the most expensive Tenni Griso in existence! 

Pete

[Zoom Zoom]

Is Guzzi still providing the parts at no cost for repair? I had heard at one point they were, although the customer still had to pay labor.

Naturally if they are not available, that creates a challenge. IF they are still replacing these parts, do they have to fail before they will even consider replacement?

John Henry

[pauldaytona]

Is Guzzi still providing the parts at no cost for repair? I had heard at one point they were, although the customer still had to pay labor.

Naturally if they are not available, that creates a challenge. IF they are still replacing these parts, do they have to fail before they will even consider replacement?

John Henry

 all = yes

[MotoG5]

Interesting. So one could say that the flat tappet 8V engine is more or less a 50k mile engine? Of course some will go longer and others less with out the roller upgrade. Not really a great recommendation for Guzzi in that they are more or less abandoning the owners to do the repair themselves. The parts provided in the case of failure is a nice gesture but if the kits become hard to come by that pretty much negates any good will there. Over all not cool at all. I still cant see just forking over the cash for a kit and replacement until my bike has the failure but its starting to look like it my well be inevitable if I put enough miles on it. Oh well, that's life.

[Vasco DG]

How did I know that this would be the inevitable result of my posting that my tappets had failed? Go and get a bloody bus pass. Fun comes at a cost.

Pete

[MotoG5]

How did I know that this would be the inevitable result of my posting that my tappets had failed? Go and get a bloody bus pass. Fun comes at a cost.

Pete

And how did I know that I was going to get an invitation to ride the bus when I posted my opinion on how Guzzi handled this. Cant agree with you more on fun having its cost. I plan on riding my NTX like I stole it until it breaks or I do. Not worried about when either one happens because they are both inevitable anyway. I stick by my statements because when other people ask me about my bike and if I would recommend it I have to tell it like it is. Would I buy another Guzzi? Yep in a New York minute. I bought my 8V knowing full well what could happen and I like it enough to do whatever needs be done to keep riding it. I just hope when it does happen that I can get the parts I need to fix it. In the mean time it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. 

[Wayne Orwig]

I think the C kit is unobtanium here in the US also. And of course, I need a C kit.
The problem I have with the 'good faith' warranty, for me, it has to physically fail, before I get the repair kit. Meaning the motor is filled with bits of hard parts. I need a photo of actual damaged parts to start the parts order process.
And I have that POS Honda which had a cam fail 1 year out of warranty. They refused to help with any parts or labor there. So getting free Guzzi parts is a major step forward IMHO.

[Lannis]

I think the C kit is unobtanium here in the US also. And of course, I need a C kit.
The problem I have with the 'good faith' warranty, for me, it has to physically fail, before I get the repair kit. Meaning the motor is filled with bits of hard parts. I need a photo of actual damaged parts to start the parts order process.
And I have that POS Honda which had a cam fail 1 year out of warranty. They refused to help with any parts or labor there. So getting free Guzzi parts is a major step forward IMHO.

Shoulda taken the SP ....

Lannis

[Chuck in Indiana]

Shoulda taken the SP ....

Lannis

 

[canuguzzi]

I think the C kit is unobtanium here in the US also. And of course, I need a C kit.
The problem I have with the 'good faith' warranty, for me, it has to physically fail, before I get the repair kit. Meaning the motor is filled with bits of hard parts. I need a photo of actual damaged parts to start the parts order process.
And I have that POS Honda which had a cam fail 1 year out of warranty. They refused to help with any parts or labor there. So getting free Guzzi parts is a major step forward IMHO.

Maybe a bunch of photos from different angles and with different oil spatters around would suffice? Surely there could be a repository of them made available.

Wait, I take that back, I didn't really meant to imply what I did. It's a mistake.

[elvisboy77]

Why don't you guys just ship the bad parts around from owner to owner?

[Vasco DG]

Oh, and as a counterpoint to all the 'Oh it's a 50,000 mile engine' nonsense some of you might be interested to know that at over 50,000 miles when I pulled the valves to inspect them the results were outstanding.

I performed the 'Pull Test' on the loose valves and the results were perfect. With my finger over the end of the oil seal  pulling out the valve and releasing it it drew itself straight back in. The guide to stem seal was still brilliant. Comparing the stems of the valves with new ones the difference was very hard to measure with my good quality micrometer, it was microns of wear. Exhaust as expected showed slightly more than inlets but the cooling galleries are obviously doing their job.

If this was a 50,000 mile 2-Valver, especially a big valve Squarefin, the valves would be flopping about in the guides like a cock in a sock!

It's swings and roundabouts. No piece of engineering is perfect but to suggest the 8V is going to suffer some sort of longevity issue and is poorly engineered overall is facile and stupid.

Pete

[pete mcgee]

Pete,
Is this a similar problem as the failure thread you started a while back with the followers wearing on the contact surfaces?
Did you ever get the metallurgy back on the failed ones you sent off?
Hope the sheds not to cold.
Cheers

[lucian]

If this was a 50,000 mile 2-Valver, especially a big valve Squarefin, the valves would be flopping about in the guides like a cock in a sock!

I've always found a sock to be a tight fit.

[Vasco DG]

Pete,
Is this a similar problem as the failure thread you started a while back with the followers wearing on the contact surfaces?
Did you ever get the metallurgy back on the failed ones you sent off?
Hope the sheds not to cold.
Cheers

Yeah, I covered it before but I'll PM you as I don't think I could stand having to listen to another five pages of blithering hysteria if I post 'em up again.

Pete

[Lannis]

Fun comes at a cost.

Pete

When I buy a brand new bike that I pay $14,500 for, and as soon as I roll it out the dealer's door it's worth $10,000, THAT's the cost of fun that I'm figuring.   I don't figure to be rebuilding the motor about the mileage the wife's Subaru is due it's first service, or about the mileage that Ken Hand would be shifting his weight to the other cheek on a long ride .... ????

Lannis

[kevdog3019]

Watch out for Guzzi's that end in "O". 

[MotoG5]

Lets see now. Vasco your bike was showing incipient cam failure at 90,000 km. So, one KM=1.609344 miles. 90,000 km divided by 1.609344 (one mile) = 55,923.40 miles. You stated that you did the conversion to rollers just in time to avoid expensive damage to your engine. How am I hysterical, stupid and facile to postulate that I could possibly be facing the same issue at some point? I never said the engine in totality would be junk but that it may well need the top end upgrade at some time to keep it on the road. I just hope that the kit will be available. Heck, maybe I should just buy one to have it on hand if needed. At any rate I am a die hard Guzzi fan with 40 years of brand loyalty and I still say that this situation is not a good deal for the marquee. Lets just hope that the roller set up is a lasting solid fix. Only time will tell. 

[Lannis]

Watch out for Guzzi's that end in "O". 

Yep, those Eldorados were well known lemons from the get-go .... 

[Vasco DG]

Lets see now. Vasco your bike was showing incipient cam failure at 90,000 km. So, one KM=1.609344 miles. 90,000 km divided by 1.609344 (one mile) = 55,923.40 miles. You stated that you did the conversion to rollers just in time to avoid expensive damage to your engine. How am I hysterical, stupid and facile to postulate that I could possibly be facing the same issue at some point? I never said the engine in totality would be junk but that it may well need the top end upgrade at some time to keep it on the road. I just hope that the kit will be available. Heck, maybe I should just buy one to have it on hand if needed. At any rate I am a die hard Guzzi fan with 40 years of brand loyalty and I still say that this situation is not a good deal for the marquee. Lets just hope that the roller set up is a lasting solid fix. Only time will tell.

(Shrug.) you're welcome to your opinion. I'll stick to mine.

Pete

[oldbike54]

 I just hate it when stuff is bad for those big signs in front of movie theaters , poor things can't defend themselves 

  Dusty

[Vasco DG]

While I fully expect the hand-wringing to continue it should be noted that the roller tappet bikes have been around since 2012 and I have yet to hear of one of them going tits no matter how much abuse they receive. Given that many owners seem to not cover many miles and get new bikes every couple of years my guess is that the problem will die by attrition eventually.

Pete

[Lannis]

I just hate it when stuff is bad for those big signs in front of movie theaters , poor things can't defend themselves 

  Dusty

marquee complement stationery their there they're it's pour, better watch out, once pedantry starts its hard to stop ....

Lannis (yes I know)

[kirby1923]

Roller cams both follower and rocker have been around since internal combustion engines were developed.
The roller rocker has advantages for sure being much less stress on the valve stem....oh well...nevermind.

Congrats on the conversion Mr. R, I'm sure your engine will love it..very sweet system.

We had a small block chevy truck that went 600,000 miles with roller cam on the ranch that never had the valve covers off.

mike

edit, roller rocker meaning rollers at the end of the rocker arm as in pushing the valve down!
And..1 km = .6255 miles

[Vasco DG]

It's not a roller rocker system, it's a roller tappet system but these too have been around for ages.

Pete

[oldbike54]

marquee complement stationery their there they're it's pour, better watch out, once pedantry starts its hard to stop ....

Lannis (yes I know)

Pedantries are not suffering abuse at the hands of the uncaring , unlike the poor Naugas whose pores are apparently water proof in the poring rain . However the plight of the marquees , at least in America, is unprecedented in the annals of history . Mark my words , this is a sign of the decline of Western civilization .

  Dusty

 

[kevdog3019]

Yep, those Eldorados were well known lemons from the get-go .... 

Got me on that one, but us poor Lario owners have taken it on the chin for years. Pete has a hand grenade he fashions accordingly. 

[MotoG5]

(Shrug.) you're welcome to your opinion. I'll stick to mine.

Pete

More than fair enough.