Bassa charging system- 48 hours fixathon: APPARENT HAPPY ENDING...

[normzone]

I have been instructed  that if I have not resolved my bike's charging issues by the end of this weekend that it is going to the shop for diagnosis and repair. 

Opportunity to work on it has been limited, whine, complain, excuses, etc. But she works both days this weekend and the weather has cooled.

So my plan is to repeat every test I have made and log the results here.

Live, commercial free.

 Then if need be do the things I've been avoiding - looking inside the ignition switch, refurbish all existing grounds, et al.

We sacrificed two half-chickens at dinner last night. Grilled by our local market, after a citrus marinade. I hope that is enough to appease the gods.

[Lannis]

I have been instructed  that if I have not resolved my bike's charging issues by the end of this weekend that it is going to the shop for diagnosis and repair. 

Opportunity to work on it has been limited, whine, complain, excuses, etc. But she works both days this weekend and the weather has cooled.

So my plan is to repeat every test I have made and log the results here. Then if need be do the things I've been avoiding - looking inside the ignition switch, refurbish all existing grounds, et al.

I will sacrifice a chicken at lunch today.

I sacrificed a chicken too; offered it up on the Altar of Hibachi anointed with ginger oil.   Maybe that'll help.

Lannis

[oldbike54]

 Norm , ya gotta wave the chicken in a figure eight motion while chanting "I believe , I believe"  If that doesn't work , as a last resort , try letting the neighbor's dog have a look , preferably a Border Collie , but in a pinch , a Basset Hound will work . Both are good at sniffing out problems . Just make sure to have a dog to Celtic to English translator handy , dogs mostly only speak in Celtic , although my old boy seems to be capable of understanding Spanish 

  Dusty

[normzone]

Alas, my apartment complex disallows dogs, so I'm on a (chicken) wing and a prayer here.

First event of the day, establish baseline. The numbers make me wonder if the battery took damage when it ran down to zero at freeway speeds:

Off - 12.4 volts

Key on - 11.99 volts

Starter turning - 11.02 volts

At idle RPM - 12.16 volts

At cruise RPM - 13.4 volts

This appears to me to indicate a system that is charging but not as well as it should.

If you have any opinion at all, or simply would like to cheerlead or mock my efforts, please respond to this thread. I appreciate any human interaction as I go back out to do battle with Skynet.

Hmm, there's a good name for a bike that had a lot of gadgets on it - fortunately the Bassa is a few levels of complexity below that point.     

[oldbike54]

 How old is that battery ? Pretty simple to check charging voltage with a meter .

  Dusty

[normzone]

It's an AGM installed 10/5/14, and on that day it yielded these numbers:

Bike off
12.91

Key on
12.48

Starter turning
11.7

Idling
12.6

At cruising revs
14.2

After the battery's freeway shutdown I bought a motorcycle charger and charged it overnight, the charger indicated full charge.

I just did some ground wire experimentation with a meter - I set the meter to it's lowest ohms setting (200) and put one terminal on the engine and the other to each of the four terminals that live on the negative terminal of the battery (which is now removed to facilitate exploration).

One of those is a piece of lamp wire added by the P.O., that goes unfused to both the positive and negative terminals of the batter, and then runs up to one of those cigarette lighter doohickeys on the handlebar. When I meter from that lug to the engine, I get some really sketchy reading, like it wants to be infinity. So I'm ignoring that one for now.

[normzone]

I've got two kinds of ground wires - those that yield sub-zero numbers - like the nice fat one that runs from the battery compartment forward to the engine. That one has a nice .7 reading.

There's another nice fat one that has a 13+ reading though. It goes down from the battery compartment into a harness and disappears towards the back of the bike. Where the heck is the other end hooked up at ?

[oldbike54]

 First thing , remove that wire ! Add ons cause all kinds of grief .

  Dusty

 Edit , referring to the lamp wire . Kiwi Roy , where are you ? Rodekyll ?

[Lannis]

One of those is a piece of lamp wire added by the P.O., that goes unfused to both the positive and negative terminals of the batter, and then runs up to one of those cigarette lighter doohickeys on the handlebar. When I meter from that lug to the engine, I get some really sketchy reading, like it wants to be infinity. So I'm ignoring that one for now.

Oh my God.   You're in trouble.   Really.

A PO that uses unfused lamp cord for accessories has likely bodged up your system so bad that you may never get it right.

I bought a bike once, from a reputable Guzzi guy, that had literally hundreds of feet of lamp cord, house wire nuts, duct tape, 30-gauge wire, dodgy connections ....

Be afraid ...

Lannis

[normzone]

The question is ... am I afraid enough ?

He didn't put a fuse in the black lamp wire circuit to the handlebar mounted cigarette lighter charging gadget, which seems to me to be foolish. I mean, you're using it to charge, so you want it to be able to handle some load, but SOME KIND of fuse still seems like a good idea, even to me who's knowledge of 'lectricity is limited to not standing barefoot in puddles while holding wires.

The original owner (I'm the third) hooked up driving lights using white lamp wire, so I can tell the generations of work apart. And at least he put a fuse in the circuit.

Fortunately, those appear to be the only two modifications made to the wiring. At least that I have detected.

[oldbike54]

 So... have you ripped that useless wire off and disposed of it yet ?

  Dusty

[normzone]

Dusty...truthfully, no.

But, since it upsets you so, I'll go do it now. I don't usually plug things into my handlebar to charge them anyway, so no big loss.

I just priced a lead acid battery at a parts place around the corner...sitting there full of juice. I'm tempted to get it and drop it in, even though it's not very likely that's all of my problem.

I'm going to go remove the black lamp wire / cigarette lighter socket. I'll be right back.

[normzone]

Alright, black lamp wire and cigarette lighter socket removed. When I start smoking cigarettes, I will have to stop the bike and use a matchbook.

I now have three ground wires coming off the battery terminal (when the battery is in the bike, which it is not now.

Two of them yield low ( 0.7 ) ohms readings - one of them drops into a harness and goes out of sight somewhere towards the rear of the bike. That one yields a 13 + ohms reading.

Is that an issue ? Where does that ground lead end up at ?

[oldbike54]

Alright, black lamp wire and cigarette lighter socket removed. When I start smoking cigarettes, I will have to stop the bike and use a matchbook.

I now have three ground wires coming off the battery terminal (when the battery is in the bike, which it is not now.

Two of them yield low ( 0.7 ) ohms readings - one of them drops into a harness and goes out of sight somewhere towards the rear of the bike. That one yields a 13 + ohms reading.

Is that an issue ? Where does that ground lead end up at ?

 Dunno where that black wire goes , but will check on my bike after while .

  Dusty

[normzone]

Thanks.

I just compelled myself to take the tank off, something I was avoiding. But I guess I'm getting better at it, with all the practice I'm getting.

I was going to repeat tests on the regulator / stator, and I was cursing the design engineers because not all of the leads off those devices can be accessed from the front - the hot lead to the harness is up under the tank.

I was tentatively trying to fish it out without pulling the tank when I simply pulled the lead lose. So the tank comes off next.

Which leads me to wonder - if it comes lose that easily, does that validate my theory that I may have popped that connection when I was pulling the speedo cable? I remember the cable hanging up, and my giving it a yank and it came free.

If so, I ran the bike for a couple of days with the regulator not hooked up. Besides killing the battery, what effect would that have?

So...tank comes off, Norman considers buying a battery. And maybe modify the harness such that all connections are readily accessible.

 

[fotoguzzi]

I was tentatively trying to fish it out without pulling the tank when I simply pulled the lead lose. So the tank comes off next.

Which leads me to wonder - if it comes lose that easily, does that validate my theory that I may have popped that connection when I was pulling the speedo cable? I remember the cable hanging up, and my giving it a yank and it came free.
YES
If so, I ran the bike for a couple of days with the regulator not hooked up. Besides killing the battery, what effect would that have?
NONE HOPEFULLY
So...tank comes off, Norman considers buying a battery. And maybe modify the harness such that all connections are readily accessible.

 

DON'T START MODIFYING, just plug the wires together tight. maybe some electrical tape over the joint.

[normzone]

[fotoguzzi] - Thank you.

That still leaves me in my current situation though - charging numbers as follows, and red wire access requiring pulling the tank if I need to change the regulator. Also, I need to have tank on to run engine and test charging system.

So I think my plan is go out, acquire new battery (as a possibly wasted expense, but at least providing a second opinion on battery status), buy a soldering iron at Harbor Freight and add in about six inches to that red lead.

That way if/when regulator / stator work occurs (hopefully never) pulling the tank would be unnecessary. I'll have to cobble up something cute to shield the connection zones in when they ride up above the regulator.

Off - 12.4 volts

Key on - 11.99 volts

Starter turning - 11.02 volts

At idle RPM - 12.16 volts

At cruise RPM - 13.4 volts

I'm going shopping, will check back in here when I return. I hope you're all having a great day with cold beverages. I confess I don't hope you're riding, because your support makes the difference between frustration and optimism in this electrical adventure.

If I ever get a Norge I'm naming it Skynet.

[Wayne Orwig]

If so, I ran the bike for a couple of days with the regulator not hooked up. Besides killing the battery, what effect would that have?

If the input lines from the alternator were in place, and the output line to the battery was off, it would be easy to blow the diodes in the regulator.

[oldbike54]

 Hey , talking to Chet Rugg as I post , he says those numbers are all good , battery might be a bit week .

 Dusty

[normzone]

And he's back - with new toys for the toybox.

A battery, old school acid lead, but new-in-box at least. My charger says it at 75% and it's working on it now.

A disposable soldering iron, solder, heat shrink, dielectric grease, wire. I'll cook up the recipe and post later.

[Wayne Orwig], diodes tested okay.

[Dusty], I guess we'll see how the new battery and charging system get along when I'm done cooking.

Thanks so much fellows, words fail to describe how much easier this is with you guys helping.

[Wayne Orwig]

You aren't really going to trash things with dielectric grease are you?
Sad.

[fotoguzzi]

 

[normzone]

Intermission: No, I've not added any dielectric grease to anything yet, but I based on what I read on here I'm supposed to be putting it on every electrical connection as religiously as condom use a few decades ago.

I've never put any on anything, so there's still time for you to save me from the dark side.

[fotoguzzi], I have completed my wiring harness mods, but I have to give you credit, life would have been simpler if I'd listened to you. Using a 3 watt soldering iron in a breeze at the end of a mile of extension cord did not result in aerospace grade solder joints.

But at least I should no longer have to pull the tank to access regulator connections.

[Lannis]

Intermission: No, I've not added any dielectric grease to anything yet, but I based on what I read on here I'm supposed to be putting it on every electrical connection as religiously as condom use a few decades ago.

If "read on here" included any of Wayne's posts on the subject, you'd throw the dielectric grease tube as far as it will go and run away from it ....

Lannis

[normzone]

I'll have to go look up those posts.

Apparent happy ending:

I modded the harness leads to voltage regulator such that they can be readily accessed without pulling the tank.

I put a new battery in it.

I fired it up, and at cruising revs it gives 14.5 volts.

So my operating theory is that when I tugged the speedo cable loose from whatever it was snagged on, that snag happened to be a connection from my voltage regulator to the harness.

I rode the bike for two days and and at freeway speeds drained the battery to dead, dead, dead (quoting [radguzzi] there).

So when I recharged my beautiful AGM battery it was only now capable of taking 13 and change.

I plugged a new lead acid battery in, and it's happy. Tempted to go for a night ride. Better take a sandwich if I do.

I don't know enough about electrons and such to know if my theory is sound, but that's the evidence I'm looking at tonight. I'm hoping this is the last chapter of this adventure. Either that or I'm joining the Battery of the Year club.

Thanks to all of you for your support - I haven't cried, cussed, or drank moonshine once today.

 

[fotoguzzi]

just don't let any of that battery juice spill out, it makes a real mess on anything painted.

why the fear of removing tank? it's 1 friggin bolt into a captured nut, you don't even need a wrench on the other end. True there are fuel hoses but usually you can prop it up enough without disturbing them.

now you have two wire connections to fail instead of the one?

[normzone]

I guess I've never tried to do something without pulling the tank completely.

That means three lines with hose clamps, one vent without, and two electrical connector plugs.

Yes, I have increased my possible points of failure. That ensures that my voltage regulator will last forever, and one of my added solder joints under the tank will fail.

I think I'm going for a night ride, something I almost never do. I promise not to call or post here tonight if it craps out.

[fotoguzzi]

Yes, I have increased my possible points of failure. That ensures that my voltage regulator will last forever, and one of my added solder joints under the tank will fail.

 

LOL that's funny Norm.. 

my first Bassa,

[normzone]

So THAT'S the rig you told me about when I first started eyeballing my Bassa. You didn't mention that you were a long haul truck driver - that's one hell of a trailer. Where was that beach picture taken at ? That's a beautiful bike.

Ride report: I went up the 15 North to the 76 West and went over to my old horse riding zone, Bonsall.

I had one tequila, a big bowl of excellent chips and guacamole. Saw an owl overhead winging his way to dinner.

Bike behaved fine.

[fotoguzzi]

Where was that beach picture taken at ? That's a beautiful bike.

Pacific City, Oregon