85W-90 vs 85w-140 for Stelvio Gear box

[canuck1969]

Hate to start an oil thread...........

Have had no problem for the last 4 years finding 85w-90 oil for my Stelvio gearbox, but have now struck out at two dealer ships.  Have every other variety in stock, but not the one I have always used.

I have some Redline Shock proof but hesitate to use it.  Tried it once and could not see a difference.  Flushed it out and went back to 85w-90. 

What is another alternative that will give the same performance.  In Canada so riding temperature ranges from just above freezing to 100F.  Saw some posts on using  85W-140 or 75W-140.  Anyone using one of these in their gearbox and any know issues that you have seen.  Those varieties are readily available.

I am siding on the 85W-140 as it will have the same viscosity as the spec oil at cold and thicker at hot when needed. Just want to hear from someone who is running them.

[oldbike54]

 Thicker isn't always better , why are you resistant to the Redline ?

 Dusty

[sib]

Blame Moto Guzzi.  They insist on calling the bevel drive the "transmission", and it takes 85W-140 or 75W-140, depending on the model.  What we usually refer to as the transmission is what Moto Guzzi calls the gearbox, which takes 75W-90 or 85W-90, depending on the model.  Consult your owner's manual (which is what I recommend in all cases).

[canuck1969]

Thicker isn't always better , why are you resistant to the Redline ?

 Dusty

Not resistant as much as in different.  Heard stories (like we always believe the internet) on some that loved it and some that would never go back to it again.  Too much drama for my simple personality. Would really just rather put in the 85W-90 but cant readily find it anymore.  May just end up waiting for them to restock it unless someone has experience with alternative viscosities for the gearbox.  Finding the 80W-90 for the Carc is not an issue, but just for some reason the 85W-90 is non existent. 

[normzone]

Used to be a man could say " it doesn't matter that much, just make sure you keep up on the change intervals ".

But nowadays such a statement could haunt one into perpetuity, showing up in potential employers background checks.

[pete roper]

Blame Moto Guzzi.  They insist on calling the bevel drive the "transmission", and it takes 85W-140 or 75W-140, depending on the model.  What we usually refer to as the transmission is what Moto Guzzi calls the gearbox, which takes 75W-90 or 85W-90, depending on the model.  Consult your owner's manual (which is what I recommend in all cases).

Not on the big blocks.

[canuck1969]

Used to be a man could say " it doesn't matter that much, just make sure you keep up on the change intervals ".

But nowadays such a statement could haunt one into perpetuity, showing up in potential employers background checks.

Yup...I blame the internet.  Makes everyone second guess themselves on what they know most likely won't be an issue. 

Man, peer pressure at my age, on what type of gear oil to use.  Remember the days when we just did it and moved on, and then if something happened we just denied everything.   

[ITSec]

The Stelvio is a CARC - it should not have 85w140 in it anywhere; it should not have anything that heavy anywhere in the driveline! In Canada, a lower base number is likely more desirable in any case if you are moving away from the stock oil.

I have been using Mobil1 synthetic 75w90 in both the transmission (in Guzzispeak, gearbox) and the final drive (in Guzzispeak, transmission) in my Norge for its whole life. The original spec was 80w90 and 85w90, one for bevel gears and the other for straight gears. The Mobil1 exceeds both specs and is suitable for all gear types. The same synthetic spec is also available from other manufacturers, but since you use so little (less than a litre between the two systems) it's more important to consider quality and availability.

[oldbike54]

Not resistant as much as in different.  Heard stories (like we always believe the internet) on some that loved it and some that would never go back to it again.  Too much drama for my simple personality. Would really just rather put in the 85W-90 but cant readily find it anymore.  May just end up waiting for them to restock it unless someone has experience with alternative viscosities for the gearbox.  Finding the 80W-90 for the Carc is not an issue, but just for some reason the 85W-90 is non existent.

 Why not run the 80W-90 ???

 Dusty

[canuck1969]

The Stelvio is a CARC - it should not have 85w140 in it anywhere; it should not have anything that heavy anywhere in the driveline! In Canada, a lower base number is likely more desirable in any case if you are moving away from the stock oil.

I have been using Mobil1 synthetic 75w90 in both the transmission (in Guzzispeak, gearbox) and the final drive (in Guzzispeak, transmission) in my Norge for its whole life. The original spec was 80w90 and 85w90, one for bevel gears and the other for straight gears. The Mobil1 exceeds both specs and is suitable for all gear types. The same synthetic spec is also available from other manufacturers, but since you use so little (less than a litre between the two systems) it's more important to consider quality and availability.

I may give that a shot.  That one was also on my hit list.  Can get Royal Purple Synthetic locally with no issues. 

The only issue I see with the 80W-90 is the spec oil (AGIP/ENI) for the shaft is not synthetic.  Could have sworn it was but finally took a close look at the label and clearly marked mineral. 

[ITSec]

Why not run the 80W-90 ???

 Dusty

Officially, the 80w90 MP is spec'ed for one gear type (bevel/hypoid), and the 85w90 MP/S for the other. I have the specification sheets if anyone wants a copy 

Here's a quote:

Re the 80w90 --

"AGIP ROTRA MP is an EP (Extreme Pressure) gear oil recommended for hypoid gears operating under severe conditions and for very highly loaded gears in general, especially those subject to dynamic loads. It can also be used in conventional gear-boxes and steering-boxes on cars and trucks, and in gear-boxes, final drives and power take-offs on farm and earth-moving machinery. It can thus be used for lubricating all gears, whatever they are made of, for which the manufacturer recommend an
EP lubricant."

Re the 85w90 --

"AGIP ROTRA MP/S is a special gear oil with modified EP (Extreme Pressure) characteristics. It is particularly recommended for lubrication of limited-slip differentials and associated hypoid gears, subject to high dynamic loads at high sliding speeds between gear teeth and at high temperature. In general AGIP ROTRA MP/S is suitable for those transmissions where manufacturers suggest lubricants having antistick-slip properties."

[oldbike54]

 Damn , sorry Pete , I AM NEVER EVER GONNA OWN A MOTORBIKE  that needs a different oil in the bevel box than in the transmission .

 Dusty

[pete roper]

CARC box also has a vulnerable pinion nose bearing. While these seem to not suffer as the ones in V11's do, (Different bearing and construction.) I'd still be wary of using an 85/140 in the CARC bevelbox.

I use a 75/90 full synth in all the big blocks I service, CARC or otherwise, in both gearbox and bevelbox. Works fine.

Pete

[oldbike54]

CARC box also has a vulnerable pinion nose bearing. While these seem to not suffer as the ones in V11's do, (Different bearing and construction.) I'd still be wary of using an 85/140 in the CARC bevelbox.

I use a 75/90 full synth in all the big blocks I service, CARC or otherwise, in both gearbox and bevelbox. Works fine.

Pete

 Thanks for that Pete , whew .

 Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

On big blocks, I use Mobil 1 in both, and have since the freakin 90s. No issues, even with the plastic caged bearings. On the advice of Guzzi guru Sean Fader, I run dino oil in the rear drive with moly on small blocks. He says that syn tends to find it's way out of them.. the hard to replace seal especially.  I put the "pink milk shake" in the old Lario transmission to see if it would quiet down a little. It did. When I pulled it to swap transmissions, there were signs that it was trying to get out, too.
All this and a (ahem) couple of bux  will get you a cup of coffee. 
Oil threads.. gotta love em. 

[ITSec]

I use a 75/90 full synth in all the big blocks I service, CARC or otherwise, in both gearbox and bevelbox. Works fine.

Pete

Great minds think alike! 

[Dilliw]

Pink stuff made my EV's gearbox smoother and sound a lot better.  It made a mess though in the rear though because it slings up the shaft and then slowly leaks out of the weep hole and the boot.   With the Griso in the house I think I'm just going to use Mobil 1 75W90 in all the spots and call it a day.



 

[canuck1969]

I use a 75/90 full synth in all the big blocks I service, CARC or otherwise, in both gearbox and bevelbox. Works fine.

Pete

Thanks Pete.  All I needed to hear.

Picking up so Amsoil 75W-90.  Believe it or not easier to get than Mobil 1 where I am.  Some other off brands available but the Amsoil was one of the cheapest in price, and has the highest ratings as far as gearoil.  Go figure.

Came across an article on comparing gear oils.  Very interesting read if you are of technical mind.  Amsoil and Mobil 1 were #1 and #2.  Interesting to see who the bottom ones were.  Link is below for the entire study and I attached the summary chart.

Yes, it was conducted by Amsoil but before all the naysayers start up about biased testing results and conspiracy theories and their oil worked better than someone else's, draw your own conclusions on the data and please save this from becoming another oil thread. Unfortunately my Trust and Then Verify personality needs this data.

And now I am happy.....


http://www.lastgreatroadtrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/gear-oil-comparison.pdf

[Lannis]

I have never understood the problems people give themselves with considering using a type of oil that is NOT in the manual for their bike because "it isn't easily available locally".

Why would something that you use a pint or so at a time every 10,000 kilometers have to be "easily available locally?"

I've got 45,000 miles in the last 4 years on my Stelvio, and I'm still working on the same 4 liters of 85W-90 and 80W90 AGIP that is recommended in the manual without going ANYWHERE.

I'll need some more at the next change at 48,000 miles, and here's what I'll do:

1) Go to my favorite motorcycle parts site.

2) Click on "ENI 80W90 Gear Oil".    Hit "Pay".

3) In about 3 days a nice man in brown shorts will deliver the next 6 years worth of gearbox and transmission oils right to my front door.   

It's a LOT less trouble than going into town and buying it "easily available".

Lannis

[canuck1969]

I have never understood the problems people give themselves with considering using a type of oil that is NOT in the manual for their bike because "it isn't easily available locally".

Why would something that you use a pint or so at a time every 10,000 kilometers have to be "easily available locally?"

I've got 45,000 miles in the last 4 years on my Stelvio, and I'm still working on the same 4 liters of 85W-90 and 80W90 AGIP that is recommended in the manual without going ANYWHERE.

I'll need some more at the next change at 48,000 miles, and here's what I'll do:

1) Go to my favorite motorcycle parts site.

2) Click on "ENI 80W90 Gear Oil".    Hit "Pay".

3) In about 3 days a nice man in brown shorts will deliver the next 6 years worth of gearbox and transmission oils right to my front door.   

It's a LOT less trouble than going into town and buying it "easily available".

Lannis

Glad u have that convienence in your country but some are not that lucky. Any time you want to ship me some to Canada knock your self out.  If you read the original post you would have realized that I already tried that approach. Not my first rodeo but thanks for the advise.

[LeakyLogic]

I am very green when it comes to maintenance on my Breva 1100, since this is my first Guzzi. I chose to go with the 85w-140 (bevel box) based on the following thread.

'http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=51417.0'

Perhaps I should have gone with the 80w-90, but I guess we shall see how that works out for me. Love the oil threads ;)

[Lannis]

Glad u have that convienence in your country but some are not that lucky. Any time you want to ship me some to Canada knock your self out.  If you read the original post you would have realized that I already tried that approach. Not my first rodeo but thanks for the advise.

You can't get oil shipped to you in the mail or by UPS in Canada?   Jeez mareez ....  Never would have thought it.

Lannis

[canuck1969]

You can't get oil shipped to you in the mail or by UPS in Canada?   Jeez mareez ....  Never would have thought it.

Lannis

Only during winter when dog sled post is running.

[ITSec]

I am very green when it comes to maintenance on my Breva 1100, since this is my first Guzzi. I chose to go with the 85w-140 (bevel box) based on the following thread.

'http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=51417.0'

Perhaps I should have gone with the 80w-90, but I guess we shall see how that works out for me. Love the oil threads ;)

As you read through that thread, you'll see that the initial releases of the owners' manual and AGIP guides may have mentioned the heavier oil (which, btw, is used in small block bikes). Later documents all shifted to 80w90 and 85w90 - as I would recommend you do (or 75w90 for bothm as many of us have).

[Lannis]

Only during winter when dog sled post is running.

Well, part of the "cultural exchange" part of the participation in a list like this is to try to "dope out" the straight story about what it's like living in other places than what I have lived in.   Not the "Chamber of Commerce" stuff, nor the "urban legends", but really.

Now, I know that the "dog sled post" is a joke.   However, that's the sort of thing that silly non-Canadians might believe unless told different.

If you are dismissing the idea of getting the proper oil through the mail (like a lot of us get ours) because you just don't like it or didn't think of it, that's one thing.   But if Canadians really can't just order anything they want from Amazon or Revzilla because the service isn't available, well, that's a data point I never considered.

Lannis

[canuck1969]

Well, part of the "cultural exchange" part of the participation in a list like this is to try to "dope out" the straight story about what it's like living in other places than what I have lived in.   Not the "Chamber of Commerce" stuff, nor the "urban legends", but really.

Now, I know that the "dog sled post" is a joke.   However, that's the sort of thing that silly non-Canadians might believe unless told different.

If you are dismissing the idea of getting the proper oil through the mail (like a lot of us get ours) because you just don't like it or didn't think of it, that's one thing.   But if Canadians really can't just order anything they want from Amazon or Revzilla because the service isn't available, well, that's a data point I never considered.

Lannis

Nope, can't just order anything we want from US based sites.  Some will deliver oils over the boarder (like flee bay), but not paying $45 to ship a $20 bottle of oil.  Not that simple here. 





And who said the dog sled thing was a joke......it is slow but gets faster once the ice roads are frozen over. 

[Lannis]

Nope, can't just order anything we want from US based sites.  Some will deliver oils over the boarder (like flee bay), but not paying $45 to ship a $20 bottle of oil.  Not that simple here. 





And who said the dog sled thing was a joke......it is slow but gets faster once the ice roads are frozen over. 

OUCH!   Okay then .... 

[jcctx]

Can't read the "mind" of a gear set; but if I could, bet it would NOT care which one you use. All modern lubes are pretty amazing and have a huge range of suitability (hell, HD uses the same stuff in ALL the holes)!!!!!