Modern Take on the Nuovo Falcone

[leafman60]

Cross-posted from the thread on belt vs CARC drives.  I didn't want these great pics from Motociclismo to get lost.
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It's a cafe racer made by Gianni Gagliotti, ex official pilot with the Beta 250 enduro in the '70s and ex Paris-Dakar pilot with the Morini 500 in the '80s, starting from a Nuovo Falcone. The pictures had been taken at a rally organized by the magazine "Motociclismo".












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[ken farr]

That is a very nice, very professional looking piece of art.

I get so tired of the "customs" I see.  Remove stuff, rattle can it, put some of the stuff back, and say it's a custom, as if you actually did something.

I guess I just like seeing quality workmanship and pride in a job well done, not a garage hackjob.

Nice machine.

kjf

[Dogwalker]

There was a web album with 185 pictures of it's making (the frame, the rear swingarm, the tank... all are custom made). Unfortunately it seems it's gone...

[leafman60]

There was a web album with 185 pictures of it's making (the frame, the rear swingarm, the tank... all are custom made). Unfortunately it seems it's gone...

Yeah, I can't find it on the Motociclismo site but it's got to still be there since the pics are linked to it.

Look at the pic link info-

http://www.motociclismo.it/galleries/image/the-bike-field-2016-mega-gallery-delle-special-dei-lettori-esposte-alla-prima-edizione/237204/F


.

[Groover]

Great concept, love it.

[Dogwalker]

Yeah, I can't find it on the Motociclismo site but it's got to still be there since the pics are linked to it.

Look at the pic link info-

http://www.motociclismo.it/galleries/image/the-bike-field-2016-mega-gallery-delle-special-dei-lettori-esposte-alla-prima-edizione/237204/F

The pictures linked here can be found in these albums.
http://www.motociclismo.it/articoli/cerca?term=The%20Bike%20Field&a=0&g=1

This is the link to the other album, but it seems it had been moved, or cancelled.
https://picasaweb.google.com/114109276813642580995/MotoGuzziNuovoFalconeReginella02

[not-fishing]

All I can say is 

[Tom]

I like it. 

[canuck750]

Now that is a real quality build worthy of the word CUSTOM carried out by a craftsman with an eye for detail rather than a fool with a hack saw and couple matte black rattle cans.

[nick949]

I don't fancy sitting on those buckles.

[poorBob]

That is a very nice, very professional looking piece of art.

I get so tired of the "customs" I see.  Remove stuff, rattle can it, put some of the stuff back, and say it's a custom, as if you actually did something.

I guess I just like seeing quality workmanship and pride in a job well done, not a garage hackjob.

Nice machine.

kjf

 :1:

This looks very nice! Unusual to see a "custom" that has a front fender and is not slathered in pipe-wrap. This looks functional and fun! It would be a great basis for a new model. If Guzzi made a 50 hp horizontal single that weighed closer to 300 lbs than it does to 400 lbs and could be ridden by someone taller than 5 foot 6, I would be in line to look at one.

[leafman60]

One of my European NF friends (James) points out that the frame is a cut-up and rewelded stock NF frame. 

Yellow lines are stock pieces, orange are rewelded joints. Very creative.

[leafman60]

Anybody recognize that gas tank on the custom?

Another very capable euro-expert says the frame is custom and not a chopped stock frame.

[mentalfloss]

Fire up the " What If" machine....What If they ( Moto Guzzi) still made thumper with the horizontal cylinder....
morphed into a 650 CC or 690/701..
Light weight....
suspension and brakes....
 

[leafman60]

Fire up the " What If" machine....What If they ( Moto Guzzi) still made thumper with the horizontal cylinder....
morphed into a 650 CC or 690/701..
Light weight....
suspension and brakes....
 

Ditto

[krglorioso]

A long ago rider/racer of Velocettes, I get weak-kneed and misty-eyed whenever I see a fishtail silencer. 

This bike is a lovely piece of art.

Ralph

[Dogwalker]

Anybody recognize that gas tank on the custom?

It's custom made.

Another very capable euro-expert says the frame is custom and not a chopped stock frame.

Well, to cut the stock frame, and reweld the segments to completely different angles is custom-made to me. Especially if this changes a double-cradle frame in a perimeter one. The old frame is only a source of spare parts.

[Dogwalker]

Fire up the " What If" machine....What If they ( Moto Guzzi) still made thumper with the horizontal cylinder....
morphed into a 650 CC or 690/701..
Light weight....
suspension and brakes....
 

It must be cost-effective.
That means to sell the bike for about 7000 Euro at best (A Royal Enfield Continental GT costs 5790 Euro in Italy).
That means that probably there is no way to sell enough bikes to justify the design of a completely new engine. Piaggio must use it's existing projects, to mimimize design costs and use as many parts in common that's possible.
So, it likely could be done only with a single derived from the Aprilia 1200, Ducati Supermono style, with minimal changes to mount it more orizontally. Maybe with fins that makes it more similar to the old orizontal Guzzi and aid the liquid cooling, but liquid cooled anyway.



Or with a finned version of the  master 500.

[leafman60]

It must be cost-effective.
That means to sell the bike for about 7000 Euro at best (A Royal Enfield Continental GT costs 5790 Euro in Italy).
That means that probably there is no way to sell enough bikes to justify the design of a completely new engine. Piaggio must use it's existing projects, to mimimize design costs and use as many parts in common that's possible.
So, it likely could be done only with a single derived from the Aprilia 1200, Ducati Supermono style, with minimal changes to mount it more orizontally. Maybe with fins that makes it more similar to the old orizontal Guzzi and aid the liquid cooling, but liquid cooled anyway.



Or with a finned version of the  master 500.

Those type engines are so ugly they are meant to be hidden from view.

[Dogwalker]

Those type engines are so ugly they are meant to be hidden from view.

The Aprilia 1200, once placed the front cylinder orizontally, and removed the vertical one, is not bad at all.

[pete roper]

These sort of wildly hagiographic threads always give me a laugh. How many of the people who claim they'd love a *Modern*, *Upgraded*, Falcone have ever ridden an old one? While fun in a weird, antiquated sort of way they are generally hopelessly dispiriting! You only know you're accelerating with time lapse photography, they weigh a tonne, produce bugger all power, don't brake or handle and are as slow as the Russian national anthem as played by snails!

Using one as a daily rider in modern traffic would be leathal! Even riding around Canberra on a Sunday morning I was almost squashed several times!

To achieve any kind of *Modern* performance you'd loose what charm they have so what would be the point? The reason horizontal singles are only used in scooters is because in a 'Conventional' motorbike package they will add un-neccessary length to the wheelbase.

Pete

[Dogwalker]

These sort of wildly hagiographic threads always give me a laugh. How many of the people who claim they'd love a *Modern*, *Upgraded*, Falcone have ever ridden an old one? While fun in a weird, antiquated sort of way they are generally hopelessly dispiriting! You only know you're accelerating with time lapse photography, they weigh a tonne, produce bugger all power, don't brake or handle and are as slow as the Russian national anthem as played by snails!

And there is any reason why a "Modern Take" should have the same features? The original V7 was a big, heavy, touring bike. The modern one isn't.

The reason horizontal singles are only used in scooters is because in a 'Conventional' motorbike package they will add un-neccessary length to the wheelbase.

Every Ducati "L" engine has an almost orizontal cylinder, and the scooter engines, thank to the SOHC configuration, are, infact, very short.

[leafman60]

Every Ducati "L" engine has an almost orizontal cylinder, and the scooter engines, thank to the SOHC configuration, are, infact, very short.

Dogwalker, you are correct.

Do you remember the famed (and rare) Ducati Super Mono from a few years back?  Tremendous performance from a horizontal single with a dummy reciprocating weight in place of a vertical piston. 

By the way, you do know that Taglioni lifted the horizontal cylinder from Guzzi NFalcone grafted it onto the long-running Ducati single to make the 90 degree L Twin. He always admired the Guzzi.

[Dogwalker]

Do you remember the famed (and rare) Ducati Super Mono from a few years back?  Tremendous performance from a horizontal single with a dummy reciprocating weight in place of a vertical piston. 

Yeah. Infact I wrote Ducati Supermono style. It was a really clever idea to transform a 90degree twin in a single. And the current bmw small twins line works in a similar way. 


Taglioni admired the Guzzi 120� Bicilindrica, considering it optimal for cylinder cooling, but too space consuming for his (of Taglioni) years, and the balancing of a 90� twin was simpler, so he made the  Ducati L engine as a simplification of that project.

[jas67]

These sort of wildly hagiographic threads always give me a laugh.....

Pete, you are a true word smith.   I missed you while you were gone.   Your posts are both informative, and entertaining.

I had to look up hagiographic.   I'd have to say, it fits threads like these, and many other "why can't they make 'em like they used to" threads perfectly!

[nick949]

"While fun in a weird, antiquated sort of way they are generally hopelessly dispiriting! You only know you're accelerating with time lapse photography, they weigh a tonne, produce bugger all power, don't brake or handle and are as slow as the Russian national anthem as played by snails!"

As someone who puts a lot of miles on my NF, I absolutely agree - well, except from the bit about the handling which is quite excellent.  Holding it flat out on a twisty road, with no additional acceleration to play with can be quite as exciting as...... (add your favourite Roperism here).

The odd thing is, with three other bikes in the garage, I end up choosing the NF a disproportionately large percentage of the time. Despite all its quirks and limitations, it is just such a blast to ride, although as Pete suggests, a bit of a challenge in any kind of traffic.

Interestingly, the NF is almost invisible to other riders. It just doesn't fit into any of the normal pigeon holes. I think people see the leg shields and assume it must be some kind of weird scooter - or perhaps because they haven't a clue, they go blank.  Either way, I rarely get the obligatory wave and am often shunned entirely.

As for a modern one - who knows. I don't think you can design in charm or owner affection. It has to ripen gradually - like a fine gorgonzola.

Nick

[leafman60]

Ducati Supermono
1993-1997
549/572cc
61.4 HP
277 pounds wet
141 MPH

[leafman60]

Just think. With a little design fiddling, we could have a 141 MPH Falcone!

[nick949]

Just think. With a little design fiddling, we could have a 141 MPH Falcone!

How on earth would I carry my extra gas on that baby?

Nick

[leafman60]

Nick, you'd get to your destination faster than the bike would have time to burn the gas!