Author Topic: Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.  (Read 5345 times)

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2018, 03:34:32 AM »
I have been going through the Moto Guzzi 1000SP transmission / gearbox down to single gears, it was a fairly risky buy and by the time it landed on the work bench it was a little 'spendy but have to say, it has to be very low mileage and I mean low.
I have no pictures yet so will get onto that tomorrow, some off topic trans related pics until then.

This was a set I got from the UK for my 1949 Sunbeam, the seller agreed to send me the clusters only so ended up phoning him to give him the low down on extracting them from the case.
They looked a little gnarly in the pic but...............

eBay auction photo.



After a bit of a tickle up, new bearings and inner bronze bushes they came up OK being over 60 years old
.


This was one for my bought new 2008 DR650SE, some folk will know the third gear set can self destruct destroying the engine worst case.
I had purchased one of the first batch ProCycle 780cc kits, there had been talk of a better third gear set but it was only ever talk, the quoted increase to 54HP/50ft/lbs of torque was a worry.
I posted my complete stock DR trans set to Nova Racing in the UK so they could  design a billet third gear pair, that is the first set to the public so I built a complete gear set around those two gears from brand new OEM Suzuki parts (a brand new gearbox, ouch)


Offline balvenie

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2018, 04:35:36 AM »
I wish you the very best of luck Les and a truck load of money :grin:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.


Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2018, 08:29:58 PM »
Its pretty much ready to reassemble, I will use the double row bearings that came in the HMB kit.
The shift drum had a 0.8mm front shim, 1 mm at the rear and doubt the box had ever been opened, the front shim was swapped for a 1 mm for now.





Thanks for reminding me, yes the rejuvenation of this old bus has been expensive to date and I haven't really done anything.
I am off to file my tax return, maybe the government will chip in this time.



Online Rick4003

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2018, 06:32:45 AM »
Hi Les,

That gearbox looks really nice now! Well done on the cleaning, how did you do it? Normal degreasing or vapour blasting?

-Ulrik 
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2018, 06:39:03 AM »
Hello Ulrik
That is the original Eldorado case, I do not like vapour blasting so much (It has a silver sheen to it like paint, I did get a cylinder head done on my other Triumph TR5T)
I already had a complete HMB bearing kit to use, I will use the double row bearings that are included.

That trans case got the hand wire brush (Brass bristle) first which was OK, then soda blast, then Duragloss 853 which is a alloy cleaner.
The finish is OK but will blast it (soda) one more time. ( I use the hand brush on the trans gears also then kerosene wash)

My overdue HMB order (with one cylinder kit ?) is on the way according to a DHL email which includes some more final drive shims and a billet M4 rear bearing so the crankshaft can go for grinding undersize.

I had been doing the forks (new stanchions, seals, springs and bronze bushes ) but after hours of looking can not find the wire clips and shims if there were any that secure the top bush so will have to get back to that.

I want to be careful with this bike being original paint so no over polished bits, it is hard to get realistic photo's.
Most of the pieces are super fine steel wool with WD40 instead of polish (Autosol etc)
I want more of a looked after look but not overdone, also it is a bike to be used.






Offline balvenie

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2018, 05:54:43 AM »
Thank you for the Autosol alternative, Les. That alloy looks good :grin:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Online Rick4003

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2018, 06:14:23 AM »
Looks really good with the finish on the brake plate. I have to steal that trick too for my alfa engine. Then it will also look almost new on the outside as it is all new on the inside :)

Agree with the over polished stuff. I think it makes it look too much like a show bike and not like a well taken care of bike that is meant for riding. It is also a pain in the butt to keep it looking that shiny. I like to ride the bikes and fix things, not polish and clean it all the time :)

I found out last week that the set of carbs they send me from HMB didn't have matched slides in and being a really old order, they can't will do anything  about it. I should have checked it when I got it. Still it is 50 euros for a new matching slide I could have been without. On the other hand with HMB, my buddy with a G5 ordered their sump spacer with external rear filter and it looked really good and well made. And he has not had any issues with the bike throwing up oil on high speed trips. Before fitting the spacer the bike would spit up oil out of the crankcase breather if he ran the bike faster than 120km/h for longer periods. After fitting the spacer he hasn't had any issues.



-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2018, 06:45:12 AM »
Yes, a different kettle of fish once the vender has your money under their mattress.
No Moto Guzzi parts have arrived so on to some other jobs until they arrive.

The 'lost front fork upper bush retaining wire circlips were among some Norton parts, of course the best way to find the old ones was to order new ones.








Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2018, 06:55:48 AM »
The Norton is a dry sump engine with two stage oil pump (pressure/scavenge)
The pick up tube for the reed valve case evacuater (aftermarket part) needed some clearance so the engine case needed some milling.
The Moto Guzzi will get some form of reed valve system.





Old camshaft bush removed, the other side needs to be removed (blind hole)
New bushes need to be reamed (reamer in the post) after fitment, crankshaft end float checked and shimmed if necessary.


Online Rick4003

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2018, 05:00:44 AM »
Looks very interesting with the reed valve setup, can you explain a little more about it?
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2018, 03:11:40 AM »
The unit is on the under side of the engine....
Normally this plug would be in that location, any oil in the sump would flow into the central cavity in the plug then exit via the ports into a gallery that leads to the scavenge side of the oil pump.



The reed unit replicates that but that central tube leads to a reed valve, a fitting takes the normal vent hose that would have come off the engine case much higher up and back to the oil tank as a breather.
Any oil picked up by the tube will simply go back to the oil tank, it will also clear the sump if the pump lets oil by ( wet sump) when the bike sits for long periods.

 

The standard vent hose fitting is capped off.



Motorcycles have been in the stone age for a long time when it comes to crankcase evacuation and what is happening with the oil as it returns or is picked up by the oil pump.
On the Eldorado I think you could make the venting system a little more efficient without trying to reinvent the wheel.
 
Tracking says my HMB package arrived in the country two days ago so it should be delivered this week.
This afternoon was doing some mods on the low tech soda blaster, it works OK but it is hard to see (Like flying in the clouds)
Now a wooden dowel platform inside so the soda can drop though and a 6 inch diameter hose kitchen fan unit.

Offline balvenie

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2018, 03:48:29 AM »
That all looks very pretty, Les :grin: :thumb:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado, Not all that Glitters is Gold.
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2018, 08:08:42 PM »
I got the box from HMB six weeks after paying, you know I sat it there and looked at for a bit before opening it.
All I can say is worse service ever, yep another screw up on the order and will have to phone them and post parts back to Germany at my expense once again.
No Moto Guzzi crankshaft grind this week,  but the 7/8" spiral reamer was in the mail box so I can machine a tool to do the camshaft bushes for the Norton and 1957 TR6.

What can I say...





Offline balvenie

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Re: Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2018, 10:31:48 PM »
Deep breaths Les :sad:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2018, 03:26:16 AM »
People must read these posts and either think whiner or have to be making this crap up.

After waiting months here is the billet M4 rear bearing, wait a minute that is the crap cast version that is not even listed on the HMB website.
Tried to phone them but no reply, yet another email and pictures sent, the engine case will need boring but to risky only having one cylinder.

Its like being in a comedy.









Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.
« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2018, 03:58:06 AM »
A reply from HBM already.
I inquired to who is packing my orders and to ask them if I had done something wrong !!!  :grin:


Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.
« Reply #76 on: July 12, 2018, 08:21:03 AM »

After waiting months here is the billet M4 rear bearing, wait a minute that is the crap cast version that is not even listed on the HMB website.


I've had zero issues with using the "crap cast" rear main bearings, I'm not sure what is really to be gained by using the fancy billet one.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'85 Moto Morini 350 K2

Offline Les P

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Re: Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2018, 07:09:45 AM »
I had meant to add plenty are most likely out there with no problems, crap was perhaps a little harsh (They might be made in China these days)

I heard about the machined rear bearing/flange some time back (to match the front) and at that point I already had two of the cast rears from the same (US) retailer along with a non oil filter front. (The better M4 rear can be sold with the front later)

The HBM version is around US$24 more expensive than the cast version (MGC) and they say it will be a better fit in the engine case.
I notice they (HBM) do not list the cast rears on their website anymore.

Offline Les P

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I almost forgot about that thread to the right, on an angle and imperial bolt it seems (certainly not M6 / 1)
Stainless inserts were a 200 km round trip, helicoils 8 kms so went that route.
The face of the mounting flange was a little sad so that got fly cut, a clean up tomorrow and the coils can be put in place.









Centre hole is 14 mm ID.
Threads are M6 / 1 mm pitch at 32 mm centres / centers.




« Last Edit: Today at 03:22:05 AM by Les P »

Offline balvenie

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Lovely and clean, Les :thumb:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.


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