Author Topic: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.  (Read 1513 times)

Offline radguzzi

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Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« on: April 16, 2018, 04:39:08 PM »

A friend and work colleague recently passed away from that horrible cancer, he went quickly so that at least was a blessing.

At a gathering to pay tribute to Steve shortly after his passing I offered to his widow that I would be glad to help with disbursement of his motorcycles.  There is an issue with the two (2) HDs in that they are not yet paid for...

Steve bought a Harley 883 N Iron while we were in San Diego on a long term job in 2015, rode it very little out there and had it shipped home.  That has a value that will bring an average price, there are a skinny million Sportsters for sale so we'll see.

The second one is a real heart breaker.  In late Fall of 2017 Steve bought a New 2018 FXLR Low Rider back here in Maine, a gorgeous motorcycle. 

Well, the HD never left the dealer with the plan to pick it up in the Spring...  Never ridden, no miles.  It will be difficult to bring the New, Retail, never registered price but I hope to fetch a good sum for it and her.

My questions are:

With the motorcycles not yet paid for and no titles in hand... how does one arrange to sell them...?  Legally...? Can they be sold and titles transferred with little fanfare...?

I personally have never been through this before and I want to help out as much as I can with no drama... if possible.
Any advise if you have been through this would be welcomed.  Thank you.

Best,
Rob
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Online oldbike54

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 04:50:30 PM »
 Rob , thanks for taking this on  :bow:

 I would contact the DMV in Maine and ask them how to handle the new bike .

 One question , you say the bikes have no titles and aren't paid for , you do mean the big twin and not the 883 , right ? If the new bike never left the dealer it seems like they could simply sell the bike.

 Dusty
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Offline n3303j

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 04:54:17 PM »
Not paid for and no title sounds like your friend does not own the bikes therefore can't sell them.

If you mean partially paid for and a bank holds the title then it's a different issue.
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Offline twowings

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 05:31:45 PM »
The financial institution doesn't care who pays for it, just that the note gets paid...arrange with a committed buyer to meet at the financial institution with the buyer having a certified check or cash to retire the debt and the title will be released by the state (if the state holds a lien-emcumbered title) or the bank will issue paperwork stating the lien has been satisfied...you may need the spouse to sign over the new title to the new buyer if they have power-of-attorney...a call to the financial institution's loan department pre-sale will clear up a lot of questions...
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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 05:52:38 PM »
I would check the laws on this - Depending on the value of the bikes, you may not want to do anything.  When my mother died a few years back, my brother and I had the unpleasant job of sorting out her debts, and her creditors got screwed because nobody inherited her bills.  If it's a break even or worse situation for the widow, maybe let the banks have the bikes.  You're a good friend to take care of this  :boozing:

Offline pressureangle

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 05:58:34 PM »
Every State is different, in nuance at least. Best to seek advice from an estate attorney locally.
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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 06:56:27 PM »
     Not sure about the 883 but if the dealer has any kind of a heart I would think he would take good care of this widow considering the situation.

Online lucian

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 06:58:53 PM »
Sorry for the loss of your friend. Good for you  for helping out Rob.  My dad used to say a true friend will be there for you even if your not. Now I understand what he meant.  Best of luck getting it sorted out.

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 08:13:24 AM »

Lori called the dealer yesterday to make her plea for having them do something to help out on the 2018 Low Rider and the sales manager is going to get back with her, hopefully with good news.  There are extenuating circumstances that we hope they understand.

She is also going to talk with her attorney for advice.

twowings,
The Second HD was financed through HD so she will need t talk with them.  That does sound like a dream solution though.

And as n3303j mentions, yes, they are partially paid for so no title in her hand yet.

Dusty,
Good point there too, perhaps a call to DMV is in order.

Thank you all,
Back soon.

Rob
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Online oldbike54

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 08:32:01 AM »
 Onya Rob  :bow:

 Just a piece of "old man" advice . There is a very good chance this will become frustrating , getting all of the parties involved to cooperate will require patience , and even then some compromise is probably about the best to be hoped for .

 Good luck , keep us informed .

 Dusty
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Offline JoeW

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 08:49:26 AM »
In most states, the lein holder holds the title until the loan is paid off. Once they have all their money, they send the title to the owner with the "release of lein" stamped and dated. Some states allow you to hold your title even if you owe money. Once the loan is paid off, you have to bring the title into the lending institution to get the release of lein filled out. It gets complicated when selling a vehicle privately that has a lein on it. The lender won't release the title until it's paid for, the new get, or his loan company, won't pay for it without the title in hands.  Without knowing the widow's financial situation, it's hard to advise. I recently helped a good friend's widow sell several vehicles. If there is a life insurance payout, I would pay off the 883, get the title and sell it. As far as the 2018 no miles bike, that dealer should step up and help. I'm sure there was a down payment and payments must have been made over the winter. The dealership has been paid for the bike and really has nothing to lose. If they don't help this woman out, they are a$$holes. If her name is on the loan, she needs to get this settled but, if it was just his name on it, she might be able to walk away. I would check with her attorney though.

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Offline kballowe

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 10:14:22 AM »


I bought one that way - from a guy that had it financed thru Harley Credit. 
The finance guy at the local Harley dealer took care of everything, but charged me $100.  Gave the $$$ to the Harley dealer (check) and they filled out the paperwork.  The release showed up about 2 weeks later and everything was in order when I went to the DMV.

They also said that I could have financed the bike right there - thru Harley Credit.  In my mind, this is a selling point if your local Harley dealer provides this service.  Just tell the buyer that it's easy as 1-2-3 and financing is available.



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Offline Toecutter

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 10:56:49 AM »
I'd explain the situation to the Dealer on the FXR... and let them sell it.

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 03:57:02 PM »
I'd think the dealer would keep the deposit and sell the bike.
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Offline radguzzi

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 05:37:59 PM »
I'd explain the situation to the Dealer on the FXR... and let them sell it.

I'd think the dealer would keep the deposit and sell the bike.

Well Lori heard back from the dealer.  In that the FXLR was financed through HD and not that dealership directly, their hands are tied and cannot do anything to help.  They stated that they had some similar models in inventory and on the floor that have not sold so they do not want to take this one on.

So we can go pick up the HDs however, she is going to need to iron out how to sell them with that sticky title situation attached.

Interesting...



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Offline Lannis

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2018, 08:09:35 PM »
Well Lori heard back from the dealer.  In that the FXLR was financed through HD and not that dealership directly, their hands are tied and cannot do anything to help.  They stated that they had some similar models in inventory and on the floor that have not sold so they do not want to take this one on.

So we can go pick up the HDs however, she is going to need to iron out how to sell them with that sticky title situation attached.

Interesting...

My brother-in-law died a week after he'd bought a brand new GMC pickup truck, about $33,000 I think.

The next week, his widow went back to the local dealer he'd bought it from and asked if they'd take it back, at whatever the appropriate price was.   I think that wholesale was about $27,000.

They categorically refused, even though he'd bought a couple trucks there and I'd bought a car.   Wouldn't even make an offer.

She put it on Craigslist, no responses.    She put it in the local paper classifieds, and the next morning had 3 guys (all over 75, two over 80) coming over to see it.   The first one handed her $28,000 and the deal was done.

I don't understand dealers sometimes.   Nobody from our family will ever go there again .....

Good luck in trying to help, I hope it works out.   These can be emotional times, and things that you don't think will be a big deal can turn out to be!

Lannis
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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2018, 11:47:34 PM »
I think I'd tell 'em to keep the bike and try to collect from a dead man.
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Offline radguzzi

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 07:08:20 PM »

I don't understand dealers sometimes.   Nobody from our family will ever go there again .....

Good luck in trying to help, I hope it works out.   These can be emotional times, and things that you don't think will be a big deal can turn out to be!

Lannis

Me neither Lannis.  And yes, this is a very hard time for Lori right now as one can imagine. 


Thanks,
Rob


I think I'd tell 'em to keep the bike and try to collect from a dead man.

Well, the financing was through HD and he had paid some on it so it really is not their issue... I guess.   :undecided:  She would like to realize a little money out of this as well so we'll see what happens.

Best,
Rob






Current:
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'88 Honda Hawk GT,
'84 RZ350 KR Replica,
'71 Dalesman Trials, and a T-3 project...

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Online LowRyter

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2018, 07:45:28 PM »



Well, the financing was through HD and he had paid some on it so it really is not their issue... I guess.   :undecided:  She would like to realize a little money out of this as well so we'll see what happens.

Best,
Rob

Wait, she wants the deposit back or she wants to get out from under it?

Maybe we could learn how much he put down on the bike first?

I was thinking that dealer could keep the bike and keep the down payment and everyone walks away.  If you're saying she wants some of the deposit back, then we need to know how much they're talking about.
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Offline radguzzi

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2018, 11:14:17 AM »
Wait, she wants the deposit back or she wants to get out from under it?

Maybe we could learn how much he put down on the bike first?

I was thinking that dealer could keep the bike and keep the down payment and everyone walks away.  If you're saying she wants some of the deposit back, then we need to know how much they're talking about.

From what I know about the new Low Rider, Steve had traded in a different HD as this is lower than the other hence, easier for him being a bit short of leg and owes a bunch on it.

The dealer's hands are tied to help out due to the trade in and financing through HD corp.  I get that, they just refuse to help out by trying to sell it for her so we will do that and pay it off.  She would rather not just walk away from it giving the trade in value and some payments away.

Rob
Current:
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Online LowRyter

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2018, 11:18:48 AM »
I still don't get it.  Is the lady trying to get out from under the bike or is she trying to get a refund?

If it's the former, she could just walk away, if it's later she might have to sell or go consignment, depending on the equity she has in it and what she expects to get back.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2018, 11:24:15 AM »
I still don't get it.  Is the lady trying to get out from under the bike or is she trying to get a refund?

If it's the former, she could just walk away, if it's later she might have to sell or go consignment, depending on the equity she has in it and what she expects to get back.

I think it's pretty clear that the lady doesn't just want to give the bike away for the balance of the loan.

Just as an example, if the original price of the bike was $12,000, the owner made a $2,000 down payment, and paid $2000 on the principal, and the estimated net to the widow after a consignment sale would be $9,000 ... she doesn't want to walk away from the $1,000 net she would have after selling the bike on consignment and paying the $8,000 balance on the loan off.

I wouldn't either if I were trying to set up a new life after my partner was gone ....

Lannis
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Offline kballowe

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2018, 02:58:52 PM »
around here - some dealers will let you purchase a motorcycle in the winter and they will store it for free until the weather improves and then you come get it.  In the mean time, you make the payments, keep up the insurance, etc.

Our local dealers used to take bikes in on consignment, but they have so many of their own now, that most have stopped offering this service.

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Offline twhitaker

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2018, 05:36:52 PM »
If there's probate, the bikes will probably have to sit.
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Offline radguzzi

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 05:40:23 PM »
I still don't get it.  Is the lady trying to get out from under the bike or is she trying to get a refund?

If it's the former, she could just walk away, if it's later she might have to sell or go consignment, depending on the equity she has in it and what she expects to get back.

It is the latter...  she does not want to just walk away for the reasons so well described below.

I think it's pretty clear that the lady doesn't just want to give the bike away for the balance of the loan.

Just as an example, if the original price of the bike was $12,000, the owner made a $2,000 down payment, and paid $2000 on the principal, and the estimated net to the widow after a consignment sale would be $9,000 ... she doesn't want to walk away from the $1,000 net she would have after selling the bike on consignment and paying the $8,000 balance on the loan off.

I wouldn't either if I were trying to set up a new life after my partner was gone ....

Lannis

Correct.


around here - some dealers will let you purchase a motorcycle in the winter and they will store it for free until the weather improves and then you come get it.  In the mean time, you make the payments, keep up the insurance, etc.

Our local dealers used to take bikes in on consignment, but they have so many of their own now, that most have stopped offering this service.



And correct, the first part about teh purchace and "Free" storage.  They will not take on the task of consignment for the reeasons that you state.

So I will pick the two HDs up and we will try to sell them for her.

I asked her two days ago, upon my Wife's urging, whether she asked her lawyer if she can sell them or not and gain title later, the lawyer said sure.  I certainly hope so.
It will just take a few days to obtain one so the buyer will need to put up with that.

Thanks,
Rob



Current:
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2013 FLHTC,
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'91 BMW R 100 RT,
'88 Honda Hawk GT,
'84 RZ350 KR Replica,
'71 Dalesman Trials, and a T-3 project...

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Offline Yeahoo Whoyah

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2018, 07:04:28 PM »
Such a tragic event for sure.  It just further reinforces the phrase from Hamlet "Neither a borrower nor a lender be"
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2018, 07:32:58 PM »

So I will pick the two HDs up and we will try to sell them for her.

Rob

I'll share one more cautionary tale.   A friend of mine, who had several nice-looking rare vintage motorcycles, died suddenly and unexpectedly leaving behind his wife and 3 young children.

Everyone felt bad for her, as although he was a good man, a hard worker and in fact had died while traveling for business, he was not well-insured, and she was left with very little.

Many people "turned to" to help her.   Two friends of mine agreed to buy two of the motorcycles, paying a price that they would not have paid on the open market, but justified the higher price because they "knew" the bikes, and they were helping out the widow of a friend.

After they bought the bikes, however, relatives of the grieving widow were all over her, telling her that these guys had robbed her, that they paid half of what they should have (these were bikes that would have been $14 - $16K on the open market - the guys paid $17K and $18K respectively), that the bikes were incredibly rare classics, etc.   None of it was even close to true, but in her state of mind she believed them, and tried causing a LOT of trouble about it, ending several friendships.

In addition, the two guys found that although the bikes were VERY nice on the outside, they were in fact "whited sepulchers, full of dead men's bones" like the fellows in the Bible.   Both engines had to be completely rebuilt to run properly, and in fact the bikes ended up costing >$5K each to get right, so the buyers got double whammied.

At any rate, friends and relatives took sides, lies were told, some folks kept quiet under libel to keep the trouble from spreading, and it was all in all a bad experience.

Just sayin'.   These are emotional times.

Lannis
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The little punk bit me.

Offline radguzzi

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2018, 07:34:02 AM »
I'll share one more cautionary tale...   At any rate, friends and relatives took sides, lies were told, some folks kept quiet under libel to keep the trouble from spreading, and it was all in all a bad experience.

Just sayin'.   These are emotional times.

Lannis

Wow, that is a horrible situation.  I have cautioned Lori that this may take a bit to straighten out, selling the HDs and all that.  Hoping that all goes well for her. 

I have plenty of garage space to wait out the sale process so that is not an issue but she would like to move them.

Thanks,
Rob

Current:
2004 EV Touring, '99 EV Hack, '82 V65,
2013 FLHTC,
'75 Triumph T-160 Trident, '78 Triumph T-140 Bonneville,
'91 BMW R 100 RT,
'88 Honda Hawk GT,
'84 RZ350 KR Replica,
'71 Dalesman Trials, and a T-3 project...

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Offline elvisboy77

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2018, 09:37:42 AM »
I wonder if she has any equity in the 883 could she give the dealer that one in exchange for taking both?
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Offline geoff in almonte

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Re: Advice on selling motorcycles for a widow of a friend.
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2018, 09:54:26 AM »
Hi Rob

Sorry about your buddy.

Here in Kanuckistan a lot of loans/mortgages are insured - as in Life Insurance.  She may already own the bikes free & clear.

I would sell NOTHING until the will (there is a will, right?) is executed and probate is closed - that may take some time.

Good luck and again, condolences to the widow.

G
Midnight bugs taste best


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