'98 EV11

[EV11Jack]

Hi all, I'm actually embarrassed to be writing this. You see, I only write when I have a question or problem. I'm new to Guzzi's (this is my first) and after lurking and reading everyone else's conversations, I know that I don't know enough to offer any suggestions or advise. I now know that I'll never have the knowledge and experience of most of the guys ( and gal's...apologies to Guzzi Girl).
Anyhow, in keeping with my usual call for help or advise, here goes: I bought a '98 EV11 about two years ago. I don't have much in the neighborhood of room and even less in the area of experience. I've gotten the bike safe and pleasing to ride. I'm 64 and not looking to burn up the roads any longer. But, I wouldn't mind having some more oomph and sound. The bike is completely stock ie. air box, ECU, pipes etc. The throttle bodies have been sync'd, valves adjusted, new brakes, tires, re-built forks etc.
The area that seems to be my biggest curiosity right now is the fuel mileage. I'm only running around town and never really cranking it up, but I'm only getting about 31 MPG. Based on the way that I ride, I really expected to see something in the low to mid 40's. Am I expecting too much? Maybe it's me, and really, who really buys a bike for fuel economy?!?
As I've been watching and reading other posts, I'm aware that some have "re-flashed" the ECU (I think these are the correct terms), but as I read more about it, I realize that I don't have the correct computer to do anything like this. I don't have a laptop and I"m an Apple guy, not Windows.
So, with these restrictions/handcuffs, is there anything that I should look at or do that will give me more power while increasing my fuel economy? Or, maybe I'm just trying to get new bike performance out of a 20+ year old machine.
Thanks in advance for your usual excellent advise and concern. I really appreciate everyone on this forum!
cheers,
Jack Schumann

[oldbike54]

 Hello Jack ,

 Not meant to sound snarky , but think about this for a moment . You have a nice sweet running EV , why would you want to risk messing it up for a 1/2 HP and more noise ?

 Oh , around town 31 MPG sounds about right .

 Dusty

[PeteS]

Jack, I had a '98 bought new. Seems to me stock it would get 40-42 mpg. You can't reflash this computer. The map is on a chip and over the years there were a few alternate chips offered to improve drivability. Stock they had a number of flat spots. Not sure if the chips can be identified after pulling the CPU and taking off the cover (not a big deal to do) but I am guessing yours has some sort of non stock chip. I had one that returned mpgs like yours. I was able to replace it with a power commander but these are unobtanium now.
Pull the CPU cover and take a picture. Maybe the chip ID will be obvious.

Pete

[PeteS]

31 mpg is not normal.

Pete

[Rich A]

My 2000 Jackal and Bassa both get 35-40+ mpg.

Rich A

[antmanbee]

Have the TPS checked and set  for 157mv with the butterfly valves completely closed with the throttle stop screw backed out so it is not contacting. There are several tutorials available with a little searching. Re check the balance.

[azguzzirep]

How many miles on it?? My EV  now has 38k and I got 50mpg on my tour through France and Italy. Also a 98.

[JoeB]

Have the TPS checked and set

I would do this including checking/setting the trim pot for reasonable CO at idle.
Early on I adjusted the trim pot to cover up the farts that occurred on deceleration around 3000 rpm.
When I finally had a way to check it I was surprised how hight it was. Seemed mileage also suffered.
Any modifications you do with exhaust or air box will probably dictate resetting the TPS.
Not many aftermarket chips were made. The one I had came from Europe. Was running a modified airbox, basically the horns cut off and some holes drilled into the top with a K&N filter and aftermarket crossover.
Had some sound to it but after a few long days I went back to a properly tuned stocker and haven't looked back. My mileage seems to be consistent in the low to mid 40's. YMMV.

[oldbike54]

 The OP stated 31 MPG in basically all town riding , focus fellas .

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

'm new to Guzzi's (this is my first) 

Did you know a Guzzi motor likes to rev? it's not like a Harley where you just get in high gear and lug along.. you should rev to over 4k before shifting and can even ring it out to near 7,000rpm.
around town riding is best done in 3rd gear mostly, sometimes 4th.. I don't use gear 5 till about 70mph..

[oldbike54]

Did you know a Guzzi motor likes to rev? it's not like a Harley where you just get in high gear and lug along.. you should rev to over 4k before shifting and can even ring it out to near 7,000rpm.
around town riding is best done in 3rd gear mostly, sometimes 4th.. I don't use gear 5 till about 70mph..

 Isn't 7,000 RPM's in third gear about 90 MPH  :shocked:The OP lives on Lon Island .

 Dusty

[PeteS]

Did you know a Guzzi motor likes to rev? it's not like a Harley where you just get in high gear and lug along.. you should rev to over 4k before shifting and can even ring it out to near 7,000rpm.
around town riding is best done in 3rd gear mostly, sometimes 4th.. I don't use gear 5 till about 70mph..

This is myth due to poor factory tuning. With simple mods and a map to take advantage of those mods, the motor is perfectly happy at 2k RPMs and even below.
Every time someone asks how to improve a Guzzi motor a chorus rises to say leave it alone.
You don't have to spend a ton of money to do this. A 300 dollar Power Commander and a pair of 100 Dunstalls is all thats needed. The 45 mpg is just a bonus.

Pete

[fotoguzzi]

It's no myth that they like to rev..mine runs perfect at any speed and can putt along at 1500 rpm anytime so I don't have to run it out... but you can tell it likes that..the only mod is a corectomy to the crossover/muffler in the center. a power commander is totally unnecessary, I'd let you ride mine to see and bet you it runs better than any other 1100 w/a PC.  It was perfectly tuned by Doug Lofgren before I got it.

but to the OP, on your box (P8) there is a trim screw under a plug that can affect fueling,(mostly idle and low revs) don't turn it more than 1/2 turn each time (then run for at least 10 minutes) and it's not endless if turned more than about 3 revolutions it will disconnect internally. best set with an O2 meter. I wouldn't mess with it unless you have rough running in the lower revs.

[bikeridertim]

The bike is completely stock ie. air box, ECU, pipes etc.

Hi Jack, You might try something as simple as  a K&N air filter and different pipes.  The faster the air goes in and the faster it goes out the faster you go. 
My 99 EV with 154,000+ miles regularly gets in the 45-50 MPG range runningg the RPM's in the 4--5000 range. When I run lower RPM's my MPG's goes down. I know that doesn't make sense but I think its lugging the motor running lower RPM's.  YMMV

[antmanbee]

 To set the P8 CO trim,

The idle trimmer operates over a range of 4 turns, but it’s possible to turn past the end point in either direction endlessly without changing the trim pot output voltage.  Duane Mitchell at Ultimap says you can set the trim pot to the default “central” position by turning the trim pot 5 turns clockwise and listening for a little click (it’s rather little).  Then turn back 2 turns counter clockwise and this is the central position.  You now have 2 turns in either direction for adjustment.

When I did this and then checked it in Guzzi Diag I was at +1.
This was my base setting and I then made mine a bit more rich. I have an H pipe and a more open filter.

[Vagrant]

regardless as to miles a 98 should be on it's third TPS by now.

[fotoguzzi]

regardless as to miles a 98 should be on it's third TPS by now.

?

[PeteS]

It's no myth that they like to rev..mine runs perfect at any speed and can putt along at 1500 rpm anytime so I don't have to run it out... but you can tell it likes that..the only mod is a corectomy to the crossover/muffler in the center. a power commander is totally unnecessary, I'd let you ride mine to see and bet you it runs better than any other 1100 w/a PC.  It was perfectly tuned by Doug Lofgren before I got it.

but to the OP, on your box (P8) there is a trim screw under a plug that can affect fueling,(mostly idle and low revs) don't turn it more than 1/2 turn each time (then run for at least 10 minutes) and it's not endless if turned more than about 3 revolutions it will disconnect internally. best set with an O2 meter. I wouldn't mess with it unless you have rough running in the lower revs.

You can get them running just OK without a PC but the only way to find out how well your motor is working is to put it on a dyno with a sniffer. A/F mix should look like Kansas. Stock it looks like the Alps with all the hills and valleys. If you are lucky you might get it to look like the Appalachians but never a smooth line.
I met a guy at Pantheon Pizza one year at the Daytona Guzzi gathering. He had just had Shellby from Moto America tune his up his bike like you have and thought it was running well so we took them down the street to compare. Mine had his by 4 bikes. Then we swapped bikes to rule out the rider and it was the same story.
I sold mine 9 years ago with 77k but never was in the motor other than valve covers and sump off.
Not sure why it took Guzzi so long to figure out fuel injection but the '90s bikes were a disaster in that department. I recall a few guys ripping off the injectors and going back to carbs.

Pete

[fotoguzzi]

[PeteS]

Thats a fine graph but the OP asked about a '98 EV with P8 computer. The Bassa came with a 15M. Apples and oranges. The 15Ms were much better out of the box.

Pete

[flower_king001]

I've owned my '98 EV for a bit over 6 years. On the norm I get between 32-35 MPG and I ride year round in Mid-South Tennessee. Last time I  checked it was middle of Feb and was right at 33 MPG. I have not checked it since as once the weather got warm I started riding my new to me Breva 1100. I have never got the claimed 50 MPH that others have been getting. K & N filter and all tuneup procedures, TPS ect  performed yearly by an pro in Alabama.

[PeteS]

One other thing about the '98s is they have the oil temp sensor in the valve cover. If you ride in cooler weather the oil/moisture combo makes a mayonnaise around the sensor insulating it. Clean it up regularly to lessen the richer mixtures.

Pete

[flower_king001]

Good tip! As I ride many a night in mid-30 degree weather. I did have the oil temp sensor checked a few months back and all was well. Also I might add I run 70 + MPH to and from work. Since summer is here I need to check my MPH again.

Brian

One other thing about the '98s is they have the oil temp sensor in the valve cover. If you ride in cooler weather the oil/moisture combo makes a mayonnaise around the sensor insulating it. Clean it up regularly to lessen the richer mixtures.

Pete

[flower_king001]

Commuted the last several days on my '98 EV. Running mostly on the by-pass at 60-65 MPH in 4th gear and 80 MPH and above in 5th and got 37 MPH.

Brian

[Tkelly]

Adjusted my valves and removed the mouse nest from the airbox and now get 45+

[Zoom Zoom]

Jack, I'm kind of with Dusty regarding the in town mileage. Although I would think it might be a **little** better, I don't think it is that far off. When I had my '01's, I generally got mid to upper 30's with little in town riding. I always got the best while flogging it in third on the winding roads. Go figure. I should also note that I had the other puter so I needed to qualify that.

Now, the very first thing I think of is this: When was the air filter cleaned or changed? That would be the first thing I would consider. Valve adjustment and throttle body syncing is another. (Previously mentioned.)

Another biggie is the fuel you have access to. For example, coming home from the Virginia rally on my 1400 Eldo Sunday, I had three opportunities to fuel up. All highway riding using the cruise control set 3 to 5 over the posted speed.

Tank 1: Non Ethanol premium-44.5
Tank 2: Shell premium, not certain if ethanol is there or not-41.9
Tank 3: Pilot premium. Mileage unknown but the low fuel light cam on much sooner than either of the previous 2 tanks. I have not refilled yet to calculate it, but it will be significant.

Same bike, same rider, same conditions. Noticeable difference in last tank!

Have you tried changing where your getting your fuel?

Just some food for thought.

John Henry

[LowRyter]

My EV used to get 42 until my TPS went out and we screwed around with it,  now I get 35. 

BTW- the old one was the Harley TPS.  Makes me wonder............?