Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: usedtobefast on December 02, 2021, 10:58:49 AM
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I have a low mile pristine Stornello (the v7, not the 125/160). I have taken it on some dirt roads and it did better than I expected. But the normal situation is you start off on a smooth dirt road, then take the less traveled rougher dirt road that leads to the barely a 2 track over grown road/path, etc and soon you are in a place not ideal for the Stornello. :laugh:
I want to do more of this back "roads" exploring but I really don't want to mess up my Stornello.
So I starting thinking, Royal Enfield Himalayan! Yes. That would be perfect for this. Read some more, and seems a KLR650 is the boring reliable cheap (can easily buy used) "better"? machine. Or a DRZ400 but I don't want the tall skinny dirt bike seat type of moto, and I have a KTM 450 EXC for real dirt bike exploring.
So some more reading and interesting curb weight specs:
Stornello ... 445 lbs
Himalayan ... 439 lbs
KLR650 ... 432 lbs
Interesting.
Anyone have experience riding a Stornello and a Himalayan? I have the longer travel Hagon shocks on my Stornello.
Riding area would be Roanoke, VA starting point and I would like to ride stuff like the TAT routes (not the hard splits). So a typical ride would be ~1.5-2 hrs on paved back roads, speeds 45-55mph, then ~1.5 hrs on smooth ish dirt roads, and then ~1.5 hrs on more challenging dirt "roads".
The Himalayan has longer suspension travel ( 7.9" front, 7.1" rear) vs. the Stornello (5.1" front, 4.4" rear stock, with Hagon Enduro shocks not sure how much that adds).
On one hand it seems a bit silly to buy a Himalayan because I don't want to hurt my Stornello by dropping it and getting it muddy. But I would cry if I hurt the Stornello! :grin:
Thoughts?
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the RE has got to be better than the KLR, what a dog that thing is. I have a buddy with one, I have ridden it a bit and I also owned a DR650 for a few months. I do not understand the popularity of these two motorcycles.
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I test rode a Himalayan, and have a V7 II. I could certainly see myself owning a Himalayan if I had a place in the mountains.
The V7 Stornello is a street bike dressed up like a scrambler, much like the Triumph Street Scrambler. I take it offroad occasionally, and while somewhat capable, it's still a chubby midweight bike with not enough of the right ergos to really satisfy for longer or more challenging excursions. Keep in mind that exposed sump, too.
The Himalayan is a cheap thumper built specifically to go offroad. I've modified my V7 to handle more rocks, ruts, and roots, but I doubt I'll ever get it to a point of being able to go where the Himalayan can. Also-consider the steady grunt that the Himalayan puts out with its power-to-torque. and probably handles its engine cooling better. My V7's clutch can get warm pretty quickly when slipping the clutch on the tougher Class VI roads here in NH. The Himalayan seems to me to be a chug-a-lugger. And proven via YouTuber Itchy Boots to be a capable bike that go anywhere, or at least more places than the V7.
KLRs are ugly do-it-alls/masters of none with a great fan base.
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I was not a royal Enfield fan till my wife bought one admittedly it’s the 650 interceptor I believe. By no means fast but has been very reliable easy to live with and fix. I’m truly impressed. I think the Himalayan would be an admirable bike for your purposes and unique compared to the KLR.
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I was not a royal Enfield fan till my wife bought one admittedly it’s the 650 interceptor I believe. By no means fast but has been very reliable easy to live with and fix. I’m truly impressed. I think the Himalayan would be an admirable bike for your purposes and unique compared to the KLR.
I'd be hesitant including the 650 INT when discussing the Himalayan--the parallel twin is a newer engine designed in the UK, whereas the Himalayan is rocking the older thumper motor that RE is long known for a newly designed thumper. Uniting factors could certainly be in the metallurgy / build quality, as well as customer/dealer support.
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Don't forget about this cool little bike...410 pounds with BAGS!!
(https://i.ibb.co/vw2PsD6/Screen-Shot-2021-12-02-at-10-19-40-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/vw2PsD6)
(https://i.ibb.co/HCc62BC/Screen-Shot-2021-12-02-at-10-19-25-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/HCc62BC)
(https://i.ibb.co/6HG0B17/Screen-Shot-2021-12-02-at-10-19-57-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/6HG0B17)
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I First looked at the RE's at a bike show in Tucson, about a month ago. The local dealer had a display there.The Himalayan is an interesting looking bike, but when you look at one close up in person, the "cheapness" is very obvious. The little rod linking the shifter to the transmission, looks like it was made out of a bent piece of coat hanger. just a thin rod, through a hole with a cotter pin, no heim jointed ends like better quality bikes. The switch housings look, and feel really cheap,and rough. Overall its a nice looking bike, from 15 ft away, and around 5 grand for a new bike is pretty reasonable, so maybe I should not have expected more. The new 650 sitting next to it, did look a little more refined, with nice looking engine cases, and covers.
Rick.
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...the "cheapness" is very obvious. The little rod linking the shifter to the transmission, looks like it was made out of a bent piece of coat hanger. just a thin rod, through a hole with a cotter pin, no heim jointed ends like better quality bikes.
Funny, I found myself thinking the same thing when I was looking at the new Tenere. Well, more about the fact that it's so exposed to potential rock bashing.
IMO, even the RE 650s are cheap looking - the lights, the housings, the switches, the seat. Good weld jobs though, and a good canvas to build upon.
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The Himalayan to me a clean sheet of paper design that was introduced in about 2018. They seem to have a good following and the problems are minimum. When I test rode one, I thought the riding position was cramped, seemed like a nice bike, but not a highway machine. The engine is not the RE500 single that they have sold for many years, it is a new design.
I've had two KLR's - a '99 and '09 and am thinking about a '22. They are nice bikes, but are not light. They carry a lot of fuel and as the accessories go on, the weight goes up. I can flat foot the latest variations, but I've got a 32/33" inseam - not sure I want the weight of these machines any longer.
The Kaw Versys X300 is not an off road machine, it seems to be a nice two cylinder road bike that has a high rev limit. It is not intended for off road. The '22 models are very good looking bikes.
If one is close enough to the back roads and trails, a TW200 might be a fair choice
I would watch weight and height, remember you're going to have to pick it up - someone else recently started a thread with questions on both...might be good reading.
Good luck!
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I own a V7III which I have not shied away from dry dirt roads.
I owned a heavily modified '08 KLR 650 for 3 years 10,000 miles, and a '19 Himalayan for a little over 2 years 6000 miles.
The Himalayan is simple to own and maintain. The suspension if fine right out of the box. It will not cruise as fast a the KLR. The Himalayan felt like it has a lower center of gravity.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
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I'd be hesitant including the 650 INT when discussing the Himalayan--the parallel twin is a newer engine designed in the UK, whereas the Himalayan is rocking the older thumper motor that RE is long known for. Uniting factors could certainly be in the metallurgy / build quality, as well as customer/dealer support.
Incorrect. Do a little more research and then post.
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Incorrect. Do a little more research and then post.
Prostrates in severe humility.
That said, both engines are not like the other. One's a thumper, the other is not. So I'll take half-credit.
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The Stornello is pretty gravel road ready with some suspension upgrades. I ride on one most everyday I use the bike.. The Conti R3 are not the best tire for that, and I am going back to the stock real tire, and a Front radial to match it.. Store the CR3 for street travel only.. I would just get a XT-250,because with gearing it can cruise at 65 mph all day,,Also get 88 mpg doing so. Built in Japan, and a quality proven motorcycle.The is quality steel in that one
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The new KLR is nice with fuel injection but is almost an inch and a half taller than my V85! This year's model, 2022 also weighs about 500 pounds when you have the bags on it. And the bags are not that nice, and needs a lowering link t be useful. I thought hard about a KLR as well as the Himmy but went for the Travel V85 and so far I am happy I did.
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Back in the mid 90's I had a Yamaha XT 225 Serow, that I bought new, and really liked as a desert / trail bike. I wonder how the Himalayan compares to something like that? I traded the serow for a TW 200, as I had to scratch that itch. It was fun, and cool for plodding along out in the desert, especially sandy washes, but not good on the road, with a comfortable top speed of around 50-55 .
Rick.
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The little rod linking the shifter to the transmission, looks like it was made out of a bent piece of coat hanger. just a thin rod, through a hole with a cotter pin, no heim jointed ends like better quality bikes.
Rick.
Oddly enough my 1973 Eldorado has that on not only the shift pedal but the rear brake and was still in near excellent condition.
Bent rods unlike clevises or Heim joints would take a long time to wear to the point of failure.
Simple but effective.
I have a DR650 like Perazzimx14, very reliable and would cross any continent with ease but that is not in the list.
The Moto Guzzi is a road bike at heart.
The KLR has a good rep long term and the new model looks to retain some of that original simplicity but with fuel injection.
The Himalayan is heavy by the look of it but will no doubt offset that with a lower centre of gravity but have never ridden one.
What I have done is ride a RE (twin) around the very top of India (3000 kms) and am willing to bet the Himalayan will have something the others do not have, a less is more persona.
I bet it does nothing perfectly (like a DR650) , but everything adequately while putting a grin on your face.
I see there is a 577cc kit and camshaft kit for it as an option.
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The Guzzi swingers pivots on the back of the gearbox, I have heard if you put too much stress on that the lugs can snap right off, its fine for nice gravel roads but you wouldn't want to be leaping through the air too much.
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When I was selling Kawasaki's the KLR650 was a best seller .I had customers that took stock bikes to Alaska and South America. Not real exciting yet they have been known for reliability.
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I have a 2013 v7 a Nevada and a Himalayan
The Himalayan is the only one that is a dead set keeper it's centre of gravity is low it puts a smile on your face every time It leaves the shed great for plodding around in the bush handles very well on the road like a Guzzi the Torque is it's trick it is like a 250 jappa with balls certainly no race machine 24hp but if you are ridding in the 45-55mph bracket to get anywhere off road this is it's sweet spot
My better half even reckons it's the most comfortable pillion seat in the fleet
Like a Guzzi it is more than the sum of it's parts
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The Guzzi swingers pivots on the back of the gearbox, I have heard if you put too much stress on that the lugs can snap right off, its fine for nice gravel roads but you wouldn't want to be leaping through the air too much.
dont worry about that ,
i tried for years , took my heavily modified V65TT on MX tracks once a week for years.
unless you are fitting a sidecar , the swingarm pivot is absolutely bulletproof.
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KLX250! Light highly capable of going anywhere. https://youtu.be/Orj_8HoWPIw Mines a cheater with a 351 kit in it.
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DR650!
Reliable as an anvil and about as simple as one. Better on/off road manners than what's mentioned, and aftermarket parts and OEM parts are cheap and plentiful. Another nice thing is if you need to lower the bike you can lower it around 2 inches simply by moving a bolt in th erear shock mount and flipping some spacers around in the forks.
what he said, I've had both. DR 650 is far superior to the KLR.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-GFM9TTb/0/a5ed698b/M/IMG_2002-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-GFM9TTb/A)
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The DR is a big dirt bike. The KLR is an inexpensive ADV bike.
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I think we're getting to a point where we may be recommending bikes for purposes that usedtobefast isn't actually seeking. Diving into more detail--what type of conditions are you looking to actually jump into, and what do you want to avoid? Rocks, ruts, and roots? Unpaved but generally smooth dirt or gravel? The stuff that good adventure bikes pretend to be marketed for?
And for what you need, can a simple pair of Stucchi engine guards be enough for the V7?
(https://i.ibb.co/sw6vqZ8/download.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sw6vqZ8)
Note that you would to customize the right side guard to allow the exhaust to clear.
And get some better suspension.
For under $1000, space saved in your garage, and the terrain you may or may not be seeking, you may not need to worry so much about the V7.
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KLX250! Light highly capable of going anywhere. https://youtu.be/Orj_8HoWPIw Mines a cheater with a 351 kit in it.
I liked mine real well, but still think a XT-250 is a sweetheart of a simple air-cooled unit with simple valve lash adjusters. Better on the road by a long shot. less dirt capable, but will go anywhere a KLX-250s would.
(https://i.ibb.co/JnqJdBY/KONICA-MINOLTA-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JnqJdBY)
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Logically I should just get the Stornello muddy/dirty and not ride in non-Stornello areas. It really seems silly to buy another motorcycle just to keep from hurting the Stornello! :grin:
Emotionally I really want to get a Himalayan and go out and explore. And keep the Stornello pristine.
I've been watching MABDR videos ... I thought "MA" was "Massachusetts" but in this case seems it is "Mid Atlantic". Seems like all of that would be easy peasy on the Stornello ... from all the videos I've watched. Basically dirt roads and paved back roads from Damascus, VA up to Lawarenceville, PA.
If I dropped the Himalayan it would be no big deal. If I dropped the Stornello, and hurt it, I think I would just sit there and :cry:
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I used to have a 01 KLR650, I would say the fairing and the big gas tank make it more of an ADV bike. Mine impressed me with where it could go, but I ride slow.
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Out of the three I would choose the Himalayan. Comfy, light, frugal and will take you around the world without missing a beat. Super simple to service, cheap to buy and run and good resale value.
Rode one for a day and will be getting one myself next year. A bike that's more than the sum of its parts, IMHO of course.
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I'd go with the DR or Honda XLR.
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Its the old quandry with dual sports. Get a light small bike for off road or a heavier faster bike for the pavement. The OP says he plans to ride 45-55 mph to get off the pavement. That might seem OK for a while but pretty much limits you to locations close to home or having to trailer your bike much further. I can't see riding the Enfield cross country at 55 mph.
I bought a 08 KLR about ten years ago from a friend. It came with pretty much all needed. I did upgrade the front end with Racetech emulators and a fork brace, put a 685 kit in it to stop the oil consumption, degreed the exhaust cam, and added a tooth to the front sprocket so it cruises at a GPS 75 MPH. Its given me a lot of enjoyment but if I was starting with a blank sheet I would get a DR. Lighter and more powerful than the KLR.
My $.02
Pete
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I had a ride on a Himalayan in UK, and found it a nice, inoffensive and tough little piece of kit. Simple and devoid of gimmickry.
We did a day in the Cotswalds with me on my Norge, Paul on his Bellagio and Serena on her Himmy. She did not hold us up at all in reality.
It feels like it has a heavy flywheel and I like it.
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And as a chineasuim offering the Tao Motors 250. $1500 + $279 shipping and you can get a decent back road exploration dual sport bike that is able to be registered and plated. Buddy of mine has been researching them and they get good reviews. He’s picking one up for a snow bike since his Lifan is about corroded into a monolithic entity.
This is the guy who had a Guzzi dealership has over 1.5 million miles on motorcycles and just passed 80,000 miles for 2021. I trust he researched them enough to be confident.
We test ride one last week and for the money you’d be hard pressed to find better.
The Tao Tao sounds interesting, and may fit the bill for an occasional trail bike. Where do you buy them for that price? Any other details/ suggestions you would like to share?
Thanks
Rick.
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None of the above????
(https://i.ibb.co/SJTV0x5/T7-PONCA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SJTV0x5)
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Himalayan One Year Later Review, How has it held up? ( Royal Enfield Himalayan 2021 USA Model )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20rlLnFo_0U
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The DR is a big dirt bike. The KLR is an inexpensive ADV bike.
KLR weighs 50 lbs more, makes the SAME HP and costs more than the DR. KLR has fragile body work and radiator, chain driven counterbalancer. DR has only a small oil cooler to worry about and gear driven counterbalancer. With the change to 1 tooth bigger front sprocket, I toured the US on a DR650 cruising at 80 mph just fine.
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I'm not sure I follow this. What make's the KLR the Adv bike vs the DR? Is it the 99 pounds more weight? Is it the worse road/off-road manners. Is it the 2 less HP? Is it the shim and bucket valve adjustments? Is it the 2 less inches of ground clearance but the same seat height?
Frame mounted fairing with windshield. Better weather protection. Anything else you would like to know?
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Its the old quandry with dual sports. Get a light small bike for off road or a heavier faster bike for the pavement. The OP says he plans to ride 45-55 mph to get off the pavement. That might seem OK for a while but pretty much limits you to locations close to home or having to trailer your bike much further. I can't see riding the Enfield cross country at 55 mph.
I could see doing that when I retire. Stay on the mostly deserted backroads and enjoy the ride.
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KLR weighs 50 lbs more, makes the SAME HP and costs more than the DR. KLR has fragile body work and radiator, chain driven counterbalancer. DR has only a small oil cooler to worry about and gear driven counterbalancer. With the change to 1 tooth bigger front sprocket, I toured the US on a DR650 cruising at 80 mph just fine.
What does 80 mph have to do with the conversation. We aren't talking about road touring bikes here. :wink:
Everything else you say confirms what I said. The DR is a large dirt bike, and the KLR is an inexpensive Adventure bike. The DR will go places the KLR wont, but the KLR will be more comfortable and has a longer range from the factory.
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Like a well tuned forklift ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ybMIgmtsPc
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I had a ride on a Himalayan in UK, and found it a nice, inoffensive and tough little piece of kit. Simple and devoid of gimmickry.
We did a day in the Cotswalds with me on my Norge, Paul on his Bellagio and Serena on her Himmy. She did not hold us up at all in reality.
It feels like it has a heavy flywheel and I like it.
The Cotswolds are perfect for the Himalayan and the UK is full of places like that. Maybe that's why it does so well here and is not such an attractive proposition in the US? You can't travel more that 20 - 30 miles here without finding the next town or village but distances are far greater in the US and OZ. Keep off the motorways and 65mph is as fast as you need to (can) go anyway.
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So, to be an ADV bike it must have frame mounted fairing and windscreen? If as bike does not have these it cannot be considered an ADV bike??
Not my definition dude. Do your own homework and come to your own conclusions. It’s a free country. Call whatever you want an adventure bike. The definitions of many words are fluid.
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None of the above????
(https://i.ibb.co/SJTV0x5/T7-PONCA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SJTV0x5)
Nope. That bike is not a single track explorer. It is evil to its core and will have you ripping along at immature and unsafe speeds, while popping wheelies at every opportunity. Definitely nor for gentlemanly conservative back country riding.
If one wants to experience great outdoor trail riding at its base elemental level, the Trail 125 is the ticket. Just resign yourself to taking your time getting there. :wink:
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What does 80 mph have to do with the conversation. We aren't talking about road touring bikes here. :wink:
Everything else you say confirms what I said. The DR is a large dirt bike, and the KLR is an inexpensive Adventure bike. The DR will go places the KLR wont, but the KLR will be more comfortable and has a longer range from the factory.
The ability to tour in the bike is literally one of the points. "ADV Touring" is the actual name of the class of bike. So the fact that the DR can comfortably cruise at 80 with a top speed of over 100 mph is also relevant. And again, the DR makes a fine touring bike. Just add windshield and bags. The larger tank on the KLR is only relevant if buyers leave the bikes stone stock. Which no one does anyway. The bigger tank for the DR is inexpensive. What is with the weird cult loyalty to the KLR? As long as the DR is still available, there is no reason to consider a KLR.
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I'm not the one who posted "Frame mounted fairing with windshield. Better weather protection. Anything else you would like to know?"
No, you are just the one who wants to argue. I get it. I posted what the industry calls an adventure bike, but you took it as my personal definition. Simple mistake. I will use more words from now on so it is clearer.
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Like a well tuned forklift ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ybMIgmtsPc
What a great review!! Very entertaining. Makes me want to buy one! :grin:
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Here is a picture of my Stornello:
(https://i.ibb.co/WWgjS0r/IMG-20210504-144104226.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WWgjS0r)
And interesting ... I believe zero people have said "use the Stornello! Get it muddy! Maybe drop it and not worry about it."
I'm 99% on the Himalayan decision.
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I've taken my Stonello on some steep and rutted 4 WD tracks . Lowering tire press to 22 psi helped the limited suspension travel a lot and low seat height . Did have a problem with the eng developing a off throttle stalling issue after a long decent ie engine braking all the way down . I have read of other Mk2 engines having the exact same problem after long descents off road. Never found out what the problem was but doing a reset with Guzzidiag fixed it.
Just installed some Honda Goldwing foot pegs big improvement over OEM solid ally cap pegs .My boots tended to slip off them and no vib absorbtion. Mainly use the Stornello for road use commuting 40 km/ day and longer road trips round South Is .
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Take a cue from Hawkeye in the new Marvel movie and just take the fenders off a RE650 and put knobbies on it! LOL
I did another 100 miles on my RE 650 GT today and mostly back roads and it was awesome fun. Great way to see the countryside. Its a very easy bike to enjoy and care for. Got almost 61 mpg on it today and it takes regular gas!
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Here is some inspiration to use the Stornello. Not a Guzzi but my friend using his BMW R80ST. .Which is kind of a rare bike.I was on a KLR.
(https://i.ibb.co/s6ZFLT1/Joe.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s6ZFLT1)
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Here is a picture of my Stornello:
(https://i.ibb.co/WWgjS0r/IMG-20210504-144104226.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WWgjS0r)
And interesting ... I believe zero people have said "use the Stornello! Get it muddy! Maybe drop it and not worry about it."
I'm 99% on the Himalayan decision.
If you could weld a 3rd contact point to the tip over bars they might protect that expensive tank in a slide. To me the Stornello just has the look of a scrambler, like the early air cooled triumphs. Sure, in the hands of an expert any bike can be ridden wherever.
As long as you have no need for prolonged 70 mph riding you should enjoy the Himalayan. I'm heavily tempted to buy another one.
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If you could weld a 3rd contact point to the tip over bars they might protect that expensive tank in a slide. To me the Stornello just has the look of a scrambler, like the early air cooled triumphs. Sure, in the hands of an expert any bike can be ridden wherever.
As long as you have no need for prolonged 70 mph riding you should enjoy the Himalayan. I'm heavily tempted to buy another one.
couldn’t said this any better. If I was in your position keep the Guzzi clean ride the piss outta off the Himalayan and enjoy both for what they are. Royal Enfield while cheap in some of its fittings has made a sensible well priced product that’s actually fun. I love Guzzi but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy the Himalayan. If my Guzzi is toast I just might.