You know that Vincent you couldn't afford?, CL, ny

[Lannis]

  700K miles on a Vincent is impressive, almost unreal....... The late Pat Owens put over 500,000 documented miles on a 70 Triumph...Certainly it was rebuilt a number of times but I can't imagine riding one 1/5th that distance
  Some riders just don't stop...
 

                   
       

I have personally met only 3 folks who have put 400K+ miles on one bike, one being a quick Hello! to Karl Werth and his Guzzi once, one being a guy I met at a mutual friend's funeral with an R75/5 with a little over 490,000, and one being a Harley rider with over 500,000. 

Quite a few folks here on the list have that many lifetime miles, or many more, but it's been on many bikes, not just one.   

It has taken me a whole riding lifetime to realize that I would be a safer, happier, more secure rider if I kept one bike and just kept it running, no matter what, because my reflexes and reactions work better that way.

And if I were going around again, I would not do the "A Bike Brand For Every Brand Rally" or the two-up/antique/sport/bimbler collection ... I'd pick a bike I really loved (and there have been several), and make the decision that I would ride it and no other.   It's just a mechanical thing with a finite number of parts, and every single one can be replaced, so it's doable, it's just not common. 

Too late now, though!

Lannis

[Rebochi]

  I the Mid 80s I was working at a small shipyard in Seattle. The Superintendent had a Vincent and a cocaine problem. I offered him 10 grand for a nice condition , running Black Shadow and my offer was rudely declined.  Three months later he sold it to our welding supplier for less than 4 thousand dollars at 3 in the morning.  Damn, The Vincent deal of the Century and I missed it.

[Aaron D.]

I imagined a similar long term relationship with a Velocette.Until I rode a few.

Down to one bike now, and going many more places than before. And actually seeing them!

[Lannis]

I imagined a similar long term relationship with a Velocette.Until I rode a few.

If you read Clement Salvadori's essays and stories, you'll find him trying to do the very same thing ... buying a new Velocette and (trying to) see the world from it.   Some things are just not meant to be ....

Lannis

[tetarabra]

@Lannis   

Vincent gone.
Duke still in the garage.

[oldbike54]

Curiosity about Vincents got me to read what's available on the internet, much of it opinion of course.. In terms of acceleration, it can be compared to an ironhead Sportster,  similar weight HP and torque, ..For sure the Sporty is a rougher more vibrating engine...It also seems Vincents like other bikes of that era have flaws that were never resolved by the factory...Some rather expensive one time work on the engine if the bike is ridden a lot.I believe cam and rocker wear issues..and perhaps main bearings...
 The famous photo of Rollie Free stretched out on the Vincent at Bonneville  to set a record of 150 MPH , would require about 75 HP . it's not a factory stock engine of course. But that's impressive power from such an engine..

 The engine in the Rollie Free bike was a Black Lightening motor which was based on the Picador project , which was an engine built for use in drones. Caged rod bearings instead of lose ball , higher compression , bumpier cams , etc . Probably most Vinnies running today have engines which are a blend of Lightening spec with softer tuning . Interestingly enough , that LSR Vinnie ran faster at a later time , but the sanctioning body made him wear protective gear , and he wasn't stretched out on a piece of plywood , so the pictures aren't as , er , dramatic  Memory says it ran 155. something , of course all of this was running dope , not straight race gas .

 Dusty

[cliffrod]

  I the Mid 80s I was working at a small shipyard in Seattle. The Superintendent had a Vincent and a cocaine problem. I offered him 10 grand for a nice condition , running Black Shadow and my offer was rudely declined.  Three months later he sold it to our welding supplier for less than 4 thousand dollars at 3 in the morning.  Damn, The Vincent deal of the Century and I missed it.

Sounds like a different currency might have better completed the transaction.....

When I had & still had to have all kinds of bikes, I often seriously contemplated cashing in all for one. More than once, I hoped I could do so to somehow buy the 1949 HRD that has been part of the old bike display for decades at the local HD dealer.  When I actually pursued the idea in the late 90's, it was met with a firm "No!" 

Then it did happen.  In 06-07, everything except the V7 Sport and 74 FLH shovelhead ("our" bike for two-up) went away because I wanted my studio more than a dozen bikes.

Always liked singles very much and still do. Liked lots of others and readily justified owning them to great fault.  without exception, all of them were easier to like than ride full time compared to either of these two completely usable & realistic survivors.   I miss the now-gone bikes sometimes, but mostly because they were each a deal and a story & came to me before they started to matter ($$$) to other people. 

Of course, cool old bikes do have a way of growing back in an empty garage.  And I can still go 5 miles down the road and look at the same HRD for free. 

[Muzz]

Uh , the type of people who spend that kind of money on a rare or exotic motorbike want it to be either original , restored to orignal , or have some significant provenance , none of which this bike has .

 Dusty

This.  The tank, carbs, wheels, seat, mudguards.  Might have had a lot of money spent on it and it probably goes like stink being a 1200, but unmolested it ain't.

My bro has a '50 Comet.  In the over 50 years he has owned it he has slowly worked through all those little things, which, when they are set up right make it a very special bike to ride.  The forks are not a true girder and although not long travel are remarkably compliant. They are subject to wear in the bushes which can affect their performance considerably.  I am given to understand that John Britten modeled the Britten forks on the design.  Something about the rake/trail not altering under braking.

During an AJS/Matchless rally I went on we were scrambling up a goat track type farm road out in the boonies when bro flew past the three of us two up going like the clappers, but still making the pop pop pop they they made.  No way we going solo could keep up.

[Rough Edge racing]

The engine in the Rollie Free bike was a Black Lightening motor which was based on the Picador project , which was an engine built for use in drones. Caged rod bearings instead of lose ball , higher compression , bumpier cams , etc . Probably most Vinnies running today have engines which are a blend of Lightening spec with softer tuning . Interestingly enough , that LSR Vinnie ran faster at a later time , but the sanctioning body made him wear protective gear , and he wasn't stretched out on a piece of plywood , so the pictures aren't as , er , dramatic  Memory says it ran 155. something , of course all of this was running dope , not straight race gas .

 Dusty

 I believe the classic run of Rollie stretched out was 148 MPH....Rules at Bonneville back then were quite different than today and I have no idea what what was in the fuel tank....
 Three bikes on my list are a Crocker, Brough Superior SS100 and Vincent.....I will never own any of those, so I have to be content with my Ducatis
   

[Rebochi]

Sounds like a different currency might have better completed the transaction.....

 After I get the Time Machine properly calibrated I am going back with hookers and blow to renegotiate . The guy who bought the discounted Vincent was a neighbor so I would walk over to his garage and admire his collection.

[Roebling3]

There's an article and pictures by Corey Levenson in the January 2019 edition of ,Motorcycle Classics', page 19. Among other things Mr. Levenson starts off with a few paragraphs regarding 'Big Sid Biberman'. Big Sid was renowned for Vincent restorations, performance mods & a racer himself. I'd bet Charlie knew him, geographically speaking.

2 Guzzi 'heavy' things: Melissa Pierson gifted me the book, authored by Big Sid's son. It's about Sid's Comet single. Corey Levenson has photographed Dave Roper many times.

All Good!  Happy Holidays everyone.   R3~

[Kiwi_Roy]

---  The forks are not a true girder and although not long travel are remarkably compliant. They are subject to wear in the bushes which can affect their performance considerably.  I am given to understand that John Britten modeled the Britten forks on the design.  Something about the rake/trail not altering under braking---

The bushes in my Comet looked ok but the shafts seemed to be eaten out in the bearing area as though by corrosion or electrolysis.
they are a very solid arrangement.
I particularly like that you could remove either wheel without tools (apart from something to remove the clip off the chain link)

[jas67]

Coming up at the MECUM auction in Vegas next month...("Oh my!!!")  

A Vincent for EVERYONE's taste!!  Just bring the BIG CHECKBOOK!!

The Egli Vincent would definitely be one I'd buy with my Power Ball or Mega Millions winnings.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Since we are talking Vincent, here's some porn

[Ncdan]

I've never had the privilege of even seeing a Vincent in real life but I do have an old memory on the subject. 50+ years ago, I was 14 at the time, some buddies and I were sitting on our bikes taking a break from trial ridding. I was on my 65cc Honda scrambler. One of the guys started a conversation about the faster bike in the world, a Vincent Black Shadow. I'll never forget the conversation as he was very descriptive, being 14 years old himself, and made it sound unbelievable, the shear speed of the monster Vincent. Great youth memory's. The next best thing of my Vincent memories would be when the song "1952 Vincent black Lighting" came out of some called it "Red Molly". Google it and listen, great old song about that great bike. Click on to hear, it's fun!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fpwlae4ZYc

[Kiwi_Roy]

Try Googling the original by Richard Thompson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Vincent_Black_Lightn

[Lannis]

Sorry, but I just can't get into motorcycle songs by non-motorcyclists.   

On my Vincent ride, half of it was on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina.   I stopped at a couple of overlooks, and both times I heard the same thing from people.

"Wow, is that a Vincent, really?" they'd say.

"Yes, it is.   Not mine, though, I'm sorry to say".

"Well what kind is it?"

"It's a 1951 Vincent Rapide."

"Oh yeah?   Now I'll tell you what you REALLY should have, and that's a 1952 Black Lightning.  Yes sir, that's what you really need ... " and they wouldn't even look at the Rapide any more ....

One country song made them experts on the things ....

Lannis

[Muzz]

The Black Lightning I don't think ever came out in road trim. I guess you could easily make one road legal though.

The Black Shadow certainly did though.

My bro's manual has the list of options to take your factory ordered Black Lightening up to about 145mph out of the crate (but not in road trim)

[Aaron D.]

Sorry, but I just can't get into motorcycle songs by non-motorcyclists.   

On my Vincent ride, half of it was on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina.   I stopped at a couple of overlooks, and both times I heard the same thing from people.

"Wow, is that a Vincent, really?" they'd say.

"Yes, it is.   Not mine, though, I'm sorry to say".

"Well what kind is it?"

"It's a 1951 Vincent Rapide."

"Oh yeah?   Now I'll tell you what you REALLY should have, and that's a 1952 Black Lightning.  Yes sir, that's what you really need ... " and they wouldn't even look at the Rapide any more ....

One country song made them experts on the things ....

Lannis

Mr. Thompson would be somewhat amazed at being described as a country music artist.

[JJ]

If I ever win THE LOTTERY, I certainly would add one of THESE to the list!!! A Patrick Godet (R.I.P.) Egli-Vincent!!

Custom examples like these STARTED at $85,000 and up!!

[Lannis]

Mr. Thompson would be somewhat amazed at being described as a country music artist.

Well, I don't know if HE is or not (he's a mighty fine guitarist), but that song has been covered by a bunch of country and bluegrass bands over the years, and I suspect that the people that are talking to me about it heard it in between a couple of dead-woman and drunk-and-broke songs on the radio ....

Lannis

[Turin]

Tried listening to the song and didn't make it to the chorus... 2 thumbs down.

[Ncdan]

Sorry, but I just can't get into motorcycle songs by non-motorcyclists.   

On my Vincent ride, half of it was on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina.   I stopped at a couple of overlooks, and both times I heard the same thing from people.

"Wow, is that a Vincent, really?" they'd say.

"Yes, it is.   Not mine, though, I'm sorry to say".

"Well what kind is it?"

"It's a 1951 Vincent Rapide."

"Oh yeah?   Now I'll tell you what you REALLY should have, and that's a 1952 Black Lightning.  Yes sir, that's what you really need ... " and they wouldn't even look at the Rapide any more ....

One country song made them experts on the things ....

Lannis

Just curious Lannis, how do you know that all of the guys who did the song were "Non Motorcyclist"🤔

[blackcat]

I’ve seen Richard Thompson a good half dozen times, this song is defiantly a crowd pleaser.

1952 Vincent Black Lightning
Song by Richard Thompson



Says Red Molly, to James, "Well that's a fine motorbike.
A girl could feel special on any such like."
Says James, to Red Molly, "My hat's off to you.
It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952.
And I've seen you on the corners and cafes, it seems.
Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme."
And he pulled her on behind,
And down to Boxhill,
They'd Ride.
Says James, to Red Molly, "Here's a ring for your right hand.
But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man;
For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen.
I've robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine.
And now I'm twenty-one years, I might make twenty-two.
And I don't mind dyin' but for the love of you.
But if fate should break my stride, then I'll give you my Vincent, To Ride."
"Come down Red Molly, " called Sargent McQuade.
"For they've taken young James Aidee for Armed Robbery.
Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside.
Oh, come down, Red Molly, to his dying bedside."
When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left.
He was runnin' out of road. He was runnin' out of breath.
But he smiled, to see her cry.
And said, "I'll give you my Vincent.
To Ride."
Said James, "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world
Beats a '52 Vincent and a Redheaded girl.


Now Nortons and Indians and Greavses won't do.
Oh, they don't have a Soul like a Vincent '52."
Well he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys.
He said, "I've got no further use...for these.
I see Angels on Ariels in leather and chrome,
Swoopin' down from Heaven to carry me home."
And he gave her one last kiss and died.
And he gave her his Vincent.
To Ride.
1952 Vincent Black Lightning lyrics © BMG Rights Management

“Interviewed in the 2003 BBC Four documentary Solitary Life, Thompson said: "When I was a kid, that was always the exotic bike, that was always the one, the one that you went "ooh, wow". I'd always been looking for English ideas that didn't sound corny, that had some romance to them, and around which you could pin a song. And this song started with a motorcycle, it started with the Vincent. It was a good lodestone around which the song could revolve"

[Ncdan]

I’ve seen Richard Thompson a good half dozen times, this song is defiantly a crowd pleaser.

1952 Vincent Black Lightning
Song by Richard Thompson



Says Red Molly, to James, "Well that's a fine motorbike.
A girl could feel special on any such like."
Says James, to Red Molly, "My hat's off to you.
It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952.
And I've seen you on the corners and cafes, it seems.
Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme."
And he pulled her on behind,
And down to Boxhill,
They'd Ride.
Says James, to Red Molly, "Here's a ring for your right hand.
But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man;
For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen.
I've robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine.
And now I'm twenty-one years, I might make twenty-two.
And I don't mind dyin' but for the love of you.
But if fate should break my stride, then I'll give you my Vincent, To Ride."
"Come down Red Molly, " called Sargent McQuade.
"For they've taken young James Aidee for Armed Robbery.
Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside.
Oh, come down, Red Molly, to his dying bedside."
When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left.
He was runnin' out of road. He was runnin' out of breath.
But he smiled, to see her cry.
And said, "I'll give you my Vincent.
To Ride."
Said James, "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world
Beats a '52 Vincent and a Redheaded girl.


Now Nortons and Indians and Greavses won't do.
Oh, they don't have a Soul like a Vincent '52."
Well he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys.
He said, "I've got no further use...for these.
I see Angels on Ariels in leather and chrome,
Swoopin' down from Heaven to carry me home."
And he gave her one last kiss and died.
And he gave her his Vincent.
To Ride.
1952 Vincent Black Lightning lyrics © BMG Rights Management

“Interviewed in the 2003 BBC Four documentary Solitary Life, Thompson said: "When I was a kid, that was always the exotic bike, that was always the one, the one that you went "ooh, wow". I'd always been looking for English ideas that didn't sound corny, that had some romance to them, and around which you could pin a song. And this song started with a motorcycle, it started with the Vincent. It was a good lodestone around which the song could revolve"

If one likes that type of bluegrass music they really like this song, if not they won't. Personally, I have listened to it for decades and always enjoy it when I hear it. I also always thought it was cool that they mentioned all the other popular bikes of the day. Thanks for the words as I play that type of music and will work on it.

[Lannis]

Just curious Lannis, how do you know that all of the guys who did the song were "Non Motorcyclist"🤔

Don't know about "all the guys that did the song", could be some in there.   

First of all, MOST people aren't motorcyclists so you can bet that way most of the time.   Second, it's written as a love lost ballad or whatever, and doesn't feel like someone who's really into motorcycles wrote it.

Same feeling as when I read Hunter Thompson; some of his writing is pretty funny.  I think it's clear, though, that he's trying to represent himself as a motorcyclist, but it's not fooling people who have lived with them their whole lives.   His account of buying and riding "one giant motorcycle for myself", a 650 BSA, is proof enough of that.

After a lifetime of this, I'm betting on my experience vs. theirs .... !   Your mileage may vary, professional driver on a closed course, is known by the state of California to cause cancer ....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

Don't know about "all the guys that did the song", could be some in there.   

First of all, MOST people aren't motorcyclists so you can bet that way most of the time.   Second, it's written as a love lost ballad or whatever, and doesn't feel like someone who's really into motorcycles wrote it.

Same feeling as when I read Hunter Thompson; some of his writing is pretty funny.  I think it's clear, though, that he's trying to represent himself as a motorcyclist, but it's not fooling people who have lived with them their whole lives.   His account of buying and riding "one giant motorcycle for myself", a 650 BSA, is proof enough of that.

After a lifetime of this, I'm betting on my experience vs. theirs .... !   Your mileage may vary, professional driver on a closed course, is known by the state of California to cause cancer ....

Lannis

Lol brother, I'll give you credit for one thing for sure, you definitely have the ability to read between the lines :)

[Ncdan]

I wonder why some manufacturer never brought the Vincent back the way they have did Triumph and Indians. It's obvious they are no where the same bikes they were back in the day. Wouldn't a modern  day Vincent of that style and looks with modern technology be great.

[oldbike54]

I wonder why some manufacturer never brought the Vincent back the way they have did Triumph and Indians. It's obvious they are no where the same bikes they were back in the day. Wouldn't a modern  day Vincent of that style and looks with modern technology be great.

 It has been tried on a small scale a couple of times , unfortunately in the modern world it takes someone like John Bloor to start a motorbike company from scratch that is viable .

 Dusty

[analog kid]

I wonder why some manufacturer never brought the Vincent back the way they have did Triumph and Indians. It's obvious they are no where the same bikes they were back in the day. Wouldn't a modern  day Vincent of that style and looks with modern technology be great.

Someone tried, but the engine ( Honda RC51) went out of production, then he died in a crash:
"In 1994 a man called Bernard Li bought the rights to the Vincent name and spent over $2 million developing a new, modern Vincent. The bike was to be powered by the Honda RC51 V-twin engine and was styled very much in the spirit of the 1955 Black Shadow, interest in the marque was extremely high however before production began Bernard Li was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident in Arizona.

Today the Vincent brand lies in ruins, the web address has expired and been taken over by a Google link farm, the prototypes Bernard developed were sold onto collectors and any hope of a resurrection seems a lost cause."

https://silodrome.com/author/benjamin/